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[Album] FINAL FANTASY XII Original Soundtrack (SVWC-7351~54)
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Bobbin Threadba
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 03:35 AM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 03:35 PM #76 of 124
Originally Posted by Spatula
As I've obviously not played the game yet, but do have the torrented version (haven't listened to 4th disc yet), I'm looking at the listings and it says for the last track
"20 Symphonic Poem "Hope" ~FINAL FANTASY XII PV ver.~ 3:53" as found on the link on the first page. So basically they didn't include Road of Hope in the OST? What the hell? That's honestly one of the first songs I've heard of FFXII and IMMEDIATELY fell in love with it. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I hope throughout the game that perhaps a few scenes here and there will contain it, but perhaps not, looking at the order of listing of tracks. =/
It was used at PV(Promotional Video) featured on DVD bonus that comes with Final Fantasy XII Symphonic Poem "Hope" Single ~ limited edition album (which was ridiculously short, only 8 minutes total on a cd). I've bought 3 FF12-related albums including FF12 ost, FF12 Hope, & Angela Aki's "Kiss-Me Goodbye" (plus Angela Aki's "Kokoro no Senshi" which has FF12 "Kiss Me Goodbye" english PV version + Aki's rendition of FF8's "Eyes on Me") and wondering if only they just put all 3 of it in one album instead of separating it. Also kinda weird since the ending credit plays the full version of "Hope" instead of the PV version (I ripped the movie and watched it).

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Last edited by Bobbin Threadba; Jun 7, 2006 at 03:39 AM.
Spatula
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 08:36 AM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 06:36 AM #77 of 124
Quote:
Also kinda weird since the ending credit plays the full version of "Hope" instead of the PV version (I ripped the movie and watched it).
Indeed, very weird. I aslo had a listen to Kiss me goodbye, and I really didn't like it. Eyes on Me still tops the FF vocal charts, IMHO. Eyes on Me has that certain instant romantic feel that I think no other song can quite replace. It has the natural "Squall and Rinoa" stamp on it and it's honestly the first image that pops into my head, besides Julia and Laguna. Perhaps I haven't seen Kiss me Goodbye with a visual presentation so I'd have a different opinion rather than just listening to the music sans any CG. =/

How ya doing, buddy?

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Last edited by Spatula; Jun 7, 2006 at 08:40 AM.
Cobalt Katze
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 10:07 AM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 07:07 AM #78 of 124
Well, the thing about the "love themes" in previous FF titles is that they always had some sort of role in the storyline as well. (Excluding FFX's, which just played during the underwater makeout scene.) In FF8, the love theme debut, it was the song Julia wrote for Laguna, which translated into Squall and Rinoa's love since it was a relationship they never had. In FFIX, it was a song that Garnet always sang. So, I guess, there wouldn't be as much impact with a song that probably isn't involved in the storyline (debunk me if I'm wrong), as well as one that doesn't show up anywhere else in the soundtrack as a main theme. It was mainly the producers saying hey we need to retain some ammount of tradition with an Uematsu love song.

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Dallista
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 01:15 PM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 08:15 PM #79 of 124
Been listening to this soundtrack on the way to work and back (two hours to and two hours from... still took me two days to get through the OST!). Will probably keep on listening it for the coming couple of weeks at least. It's lovely, absolutely lovely. I used to dislike Sakimoto because his soundtracks, more than most others, remind me of movie scores, in the sense that I could never really appreciate the music until I'd seen the movie/played the game. I hated the FF Tactics and Advance soundtracks until I played the games.
But something's change since then. I don't know what, because his style of music still sounds the same to me, but this soundtrack just 'has it'.

FELIPE NO
Spatula
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 01:19 PM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 11:19 AM #80 of 124
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two hours to and two hours from... still took me two days to get through the OST!).
Holy cow, how taxing is this for your car gas bills?
On a related note, I'm still proding through and am working on disc 4 right now. Still, it's a real shame that the short version of the Road of Hope (basically Refrain) was used instead. Still the best track I've heard of the OST and Symphonic Suite.

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Last edited by Spatula; Jun 7, 2006 at 06:14 PM.
Cellius
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 10:16 PM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 08:16 PM #81 of 124
If there are any MIDI experts in this thread, would you care to hazard a guess about what libraries they're using here? I'm randomly clicking on tracks and the MIDI samples are incredible, at least to my ears.

Might this be the work of EWQLSO ? That's the highest quality library I can think of at the moment.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 10:27 PM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 07:27 PM #82 of 124
I'm not certain that it's a commercial library. The woodwinds often sound like whatever Jeremy Soule uses though, which may or may not be EWQL or VSL. I personally use EWQL Gold, and get pretty similar results, so it's possible. Some of the tracks sound a little lesser in quality though, so it may be a mixture of things.

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eriol33
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Old Jun 7, 2006, 11:31 PM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 11:31 AM #83 of 124
Originally Posted by Cellius
Might this be the work of EWQLSO ? That's the highest quality library I can think of at the moment.
Holy crap, that software is amazing. Sorry for off-topic, but I'm curious. Cobalt, do you use the legit? The price of that software is ridiculous. Now finally I understand how VGM composers use synth in their work.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
You all think you got good deals, huh? Ha! You frugal and observant shoppers have more to learn.

None of that approaches this:
*censored for sake of signature size*
The Mr. Methane CD, purchased over ebay for .01¢. Yeah, free shipping. This guy performs all sorts of neat stuff, including the doot doot, doot doot from the Blue Danube.

Allow me to share a track from this CD. Here ya go.
I think he should have paid you .01¢ instead.
Cobalt Katze
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 12:43 AM Local time: Jun 7, 2006, 09:43 PM #84 of 124
Aye, I own several libraries legit. Not the one he linked, though. The standalone Gold is much less. It's still pricy, but worth it, if you're aiming to make a living at it

I don't want to drag this thread too off-topic though.

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Cheezeman3000
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 03:16 AM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 01:16 AM #85 of 124
You guys... the string sounds in this soundtrack are of a fairly low quality IMO. The only good sounds come from the lower strings, and even those aren't that great... the high strings are painfully bad! And the oboes/clarinets are tinny-sounding... you can get better sounds from Reason! I don't know why people are so amazed at the synths.

Edit: However the BRASS and PERCUSSION are excellent! Probably the best sounds I've heard in a long time. It's too bad that the more important string and woodwind sounds are... lacking in every aspect.

Edit #2: In case you would like a comparison between the FFXII synths and MODERN-day synths (in other words, what SHOULD be used in such a high-profile game as Final Fantasy), I have uploaded a sample song from the Vienna Symphonic Library. Click here to get the file.
So, why didn't Sakimoto use these sounds? They're readily available (I have access to them and I'm a lowly college student). Thoughts?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Last edited by Cheezeman3000; Jun 8, 2006 at 03:48 AM.
PiccoloNamek
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 06:22 AM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 04:22 AM #86 of 124
It hasn't bothered me. I've been too busy listening to the music to bother analyzing the quality of the synth. (Which doesn't seem that bad to me, certainly not bad enough to comment on.)

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Mr. X
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 06:40 AM #87 of 124
Apparently, most of the technical work on the soundtrack was done at Hitoshi Sakimoto's home, not a recording studio. He apologises because of the additional noises (not too evident, IMO) in the liner notes.

Overall, I thought Keiji Kawamori did a good job with the synth and definitely seems to have a great future ahead of him (as bassist, arranger, and composer too). Excluding Dirge of Cerberus, I'd say the synth is the best of any Final Fantasy score, though I agree the string samples are a little weak.

The in-game synth is a regression relative to the score, which is remastered. Because Hitoshi Sakimoto's work is so complex, it was impossible to implement it in its finest form in a PlayStation 2 score. Though some will disagree with me, I'd simply love to hear a pre-recorded full-orchestral Sakimoto soundtrack one day.

Still digesting the soundtrack... It's definitely been 'yummy' so far.

FELIPE NO
eriol33
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 07:01 AM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 07:01 PM #88 of 124
Originally Posted by Mr. Maul
Excluding Dirge of Cerberus, I'd say the synth is the best of any Final Fantasy score, though I agree the string samples are a little weak.
Agreed as well. I also compare the string used in this album with Unlimited Saga, which IMHO, more superior. Your post make me realized that it's true Sakimoto dont use a real high quality sample for this album, which might resulting this album doesnt show its real potential.

The harp, and flute instruments synth samplings are better, though.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
You all think you got good deals, huh? Ha! You frugal and observant shoppers have more to learn.

None of that approaches this:
*censored for sake of signature size*
The Mr. Methane CD, purchased over ebay for .01¢. Yeah, free shipping. This guy performs all sorts of neat stuff, including the doot doot, doot doot from the Blue Danube.

Allow me to share a track from this CD. Here ya go.
I think he should have paid you .01¢ instead.
Cellius
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 07:22 AM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 05:22 AM #89 of 124
Originally Posted by Cheezeman3000
You guys... the string sounds in this soundtrack are of a fairly low quality IMO.... the high strings are painfully bad! ... It's too bad that the more important string and woodwind sounds are... lacking in every aspect.
Thoughts?
Please name a track in this score that demonstrates these poor samples. I've only listened to about 10 tracks total; I am not familiar with this soundtrack.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
eriol33
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 07:35 AM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 07:35 PM #90 of 124
Try the 128 Giza Plain. It's my favorite track in the entire album. But I admit that, the quality of the string is low.

How ya doing, buddy?
You all think you got good deals, huh? Ha! You frugal and observant shoppers have more to learn.

None of that approaches this:
*censored for sake of signature size*
The Mr. Methane CD, purchased over ebay for .01¢. Yeah, free shipping. This guy performs all sorts of neat stuff, including the doot doot, doot doot from the Blue Danube.

Allow me to share a track from this CD. Here ya go.
I think he should have paid you .01¢ instead.
Cobalt Katze
This game will never come out.


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Old Jun 8, 2006, 11:02 AM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 08:02 AM #91 of 124
Originally Posted by Cheezeman3000
You guys... the string sounds in this soundtrack are of a fairly low quality IMO. The only good sounds come from the lower strings, and even those aren't that great... the high strings are painfully bad! And the oboes/clarinets are tinny-sounding... you can get better sounds from Reason! I don't know why people are so amazed at the synths.
I personally think the issue has less to do with the samples themselves and the lack of using many articulations of said samples.

Quote:
Edit: However the BRASS and PERCUSSION are excellent! Probably the best sounds I've heard in a long time. It's too bad that the more important string and woodwind sounds are... lacking in every aspect.
It's easy to do really good brass and percussion because when they're used in this soundtrack, it's usually for a purpose: to be somewhat agressive and punchy. If you have good punchy brass and percussion samples, you're golden in that respect. Even Vagrant Story on the PS1 had excelent brass and percussion synths, and that wasn't pre-recorded audio. Strings and woodwinds on the other hand require lots of meticulous articulation work if you want to get them to sound especially realistic and alive.

Quote:
Edit #2: In case you would like a comparison between the FFXII synths and MODERN-day synths (in other words, what SHOULD be used in such a high-profile game as Final Fantasy), I have uploaded a sample song from the Vienna Symphonic Library. Click here to get the file.
So, why didn't Sakimoto use these sounds? They're readily available (I have access to them and I'm a lowly college student). Thoughts?
Well, let me say, the sample you provided is excelent sample operation. However, I'm taking a guess by saying that it was created with the full ~$5,000 VSL, and probably took more time to mock up than at least a dozen tracks combined on this OST. Now, there's a line one has to draw somewhere. If Sakimoto had to do this whole soundtrack in his own home studio, which was the case, he had to work with what he's got, and probably under a high time constraint. Given those factors, I'm not surprised at the quality, and regardless appreciate how good it sounds because of the strength of the composition.

Here's an example of something realistically put together in one's own hypothetical home studio after about 3 days of work using a modern sample library (well, several.) You don't have to like it, but I think it's a more realistic approximation of how things could sound using a relatively accessable library. And you'll notice, not too different. (Though the orchestral thing doesn't start until after halfway through.)

So, anyways, I think the debate over synth quality is silly. (Especially because they're not synths anymore, despite all the technical talk about synth operators.) As Piccolo said, what we should really be discussing is the music

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Old Jun 8, 2006, 12:15 PM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 10:15 AM #92 of 124
Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze
what we should really be discussing is the music
By all means. But in my opinion I think discussing the method of the music's creation is an important aspect of the music, especially for those interested in entering that field, and I wasn't about to start a new thread about it. Anyway sorry! :shh:

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Cheezeman3000
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 03:02 PM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 01:02 PM #93 of 124
Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze
So, anyways, I think the debate over synth quality is silly. (Especially because they're not synths anymore, despite all the technical talk about synth operators.) As Piccolo said, what we should really be discussing is the music
You do have a point there. I was unaware that all of the work was up to Sakimoto! Given the time constraints and the sheer enormity of the task, he did an excellent job putting it all together. I was actually thinking he used those synths because it would give it more of a "Tactics" feeling, but that explains it. I guess it just makes the idea of a "symphonic" recorded album more appealing anyways!
I believe the reason we're discussing the "synth" sounds (it's easier to refer to them as synths, although we could say "samples"), was because that was the ONLY detriment to Sakimoto's music. Absolutely wonderful soundtrack except for that. Unfortunately, it's a big detriment because it is the way the music is protrayed to us. I've heard it said that 50% of the music comes from the performance (something I tend to agree with somewhat), and here it's lacking.

I was speaking idiomatically.
ruixiong89
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 10:35 PM Local time: Jun 9, 2006, 11:35 AM #94 of 124
I'm kind of lost in the discussion since I'm not exactly very music literate ... but as far as I'm into the soundtrack, it sounds really amazing! It has the whole grandeur feel there is to FFXII. I think FFXII has an amazing huge world just like that of FFXI and I think the music complements the settings perfectly! It's very unlike other FFs whereby there are some repeats of common themes but I think nonetheless, the feel of the music is right!

Though I would have appreciate if they had used the piano more though. I'm a sucker for piano versions of the music! It's so light yet so sad!

Still, the Final Fantasy XII soundtrack is amazing. It's close to 100+ tracks and I think most of them sound really pretty. Too bad I have no imagery but I can picture it's the perfect fit. The only complain though I have is that the mood of the music in the OST seems to be too consistent except for the occassional battle themes and tracks. I would expect more ups and downs as with previous versions of FF.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
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Old Jun 8, 2006, 11:46 PM Local time: Jun 8, 2006, 11:46 PM #95 of 124
Love it so far, especially the remix of the FF5 track.

FELIPE NO

Last edited by Nogib; Jun 8, 2006 at 11:56 PM.
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Old Jun 9, 2006, 04:31 AM Local time: Jun 9, 2006, 11:31 AM #96 of 124
At the moment I listen to the OST and in my opinion it was good for the Final Fantasy music that the composer has changed. Hitoshi Sakimoto did a very good job! Nothing against Uematsu-san but Sakimoto-san gives fresh air to the Final Fantasy Sound Adventures... *g*

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Old Jun 9, 2006, 05:44 AM Local time: Jun 9, 2006, 11:44 AM #97 of 124
Wow, I was profoundly impressed by this soundtrack. I had never heard any complete score by Sakimoto, except the occasional Vagrant Story track (but not enough to grasp distinctive features of this author.)

My take on this album is that it's simply fabulous. And I say that even though I have yet to listen to its entirety. It is grandiose, epic, very dense. I have really appreciated this pompous feel it creates and, given the unconventional nature of XII, I'm certain it provides a very moving soundtrack to the narration.

Two tracks I like to great extents so far are Boss Battle, Little Rascal and Phon Coast. Boss Battle is simply gorgeous, especially the part beginning at 0:56. Little Rascal and Phon Coast feature lovely melodies and grand orchestrations.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
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Old Jun 9, 2006, 10:59 AM Local time: Jun 9, 2006, 08:59 AM #98 of 124
What I really love about this score (I've been listening to it nonstop for several hours at work) is how effectively it evokes grandeur and liveliness. It's quite a spirited score and the original melodies are very inspiring. The term grand is definitely appropriate for this music.

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Old Jun 9, 2006, 04:53 PM Local time: Jun 9, 2006, 11:53 PM #99 of 124
This just keep getting and better whenever I listen to it. The final battle theme, words cannot describe its beauty. I can just imagine having a party fighting some truly epic battle, and have that song play at the same time. That must be pure bliss. That part from 4.13 to about 4.50 has got to be one of the most beautiful bits of music ever composed.
Other faves: the boss battle, Secret Practice, Penelo's theme, Rebellion, Ozmone Plains, the FF V song, Mosphoran Highwaste, and Kiss me Goodbye.

Why are they making us wait so long for the PAL release? *pout* Wanna play now!!

Originally Posted by Spatula
Holy cow, how taxing is this for your car gas bills?
I travel by, *gasp*, bus, train, another train, and another bus... and vice versa to get back home. Company pays my public transportation bills, though, so it doesn't cost me a penny, and, even better, it gives me four hours of pure relaxation every day with minimal interruption. Ideal for watching stuff on my video iPod and listening to VGM.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Last edited by Dallista; Jun 9, 2006 at 05:04 PM.
PiccoloNamek
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Old Jun 9, 2006, 08:50 PM Local time: Jun 9, 2006, 06:50 PM #100 of 124
Say, did anybody else notice that the main drumline in the final battle theme is exactly the same as the drumline in Ultima the Nice Body?

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