[General Discussion] Regarding Suikoden...

Of all the major RPG series, there are two which I admire greatly and yet have not played the majority of the games. The less relevant of these is the Megami Tensei franchise. Of that series I have played only Persona 3 and Nocturne. The franchise in question which is relevant to this thread is of course Suikoden. I have played Suikoden, and I thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish. In fact I could honestly say that I wish more RPGs would take a leaf from Suikoden's book. There are so many things to admire about this game. It does of course fall short of being ideal, but by so little that I'm inclined to rank it among my very favourite gaming experiences.

I am able to borrow a copy of Suikoden II, and I own copies of all the PS2 Suikoden games. Having recently completed an RPG, I am inclined to pick up another, and the Suikoden series beckons most seductively towards my free time. I expect to pick up Suikoden II at some time in the very near future. From what I have read on the net, it seems as though Suikoden II is held in even higher regard than the first game, by many fans. I am therefore confident of an extremely enjoyable gaming experience. It is the latter portion of the series which makes me uncertain. I have not heard particularly good things about any of the PS2 Suikoden games except the newest, Suikoden V. What I'm curious to learn is whether they are merely poor by the high standards established in the first two games, or if they are actually poor when considered on their own merits. Since the storyline for all six games appears to be connected to a certain extent, it would appear that one should play through all the games in order to fully appreciate Suikoden V.

I'd like to hear what you all have to say about Suikoden III, Suikoden IV, and Suikoden Tactics. Do the games have any redeeming characteristics? Is the deficiency you perceive more related to gameplay or to the storyline? Are they still worth playing, or would I be best advised to pretend that the series has only three games?

Please keep spoilers tagged, since as stated I have only played the first game. I don't intend to read tagged spoilers, but the discussion should be allowed to go where it may.

Thank you all in advance.

How ya doing, buddy?

III, IV and ESPECIALLY Tactics are extreme rubbish. Not just compared to I, II and now V. They are, on their own, absolute rubbish. Terrible stories, III has a god-awful battle system, IV is slow (though I prefer it to the terrible Trinity system and military helmeted ducks of III) and Tactics is one of the worst games I've ever played. The combat sucks, it doesn't really tell you anything interesting, and the characters are people we've seen before for the most part. I've played and beaten all of them, and I, II and V are worth the pain of III, IV and Tactics. But only just.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I practically gave IV and Tactics away. I spent way too much time on them before I get fed up to the point of not caring about storylines, gameplay, etc.

I, II and V are just such amazing emotional roller coasters. Very raw moments in all of them and it's brought to life by the fact that there are so many characters who join your side. If you play all three, you can get a sense of predictability, but it still seems fresh each time. V takes time to get started, but once the 7 hour prologue is out of the way and you start exploring/recruiting, it's amazing how well it takes off.

There are two sections in V that reference IV, but it's not a huge deal (the sections are actually kind of silly, although Bernadette is one of my favorite characters). It's more fan-service related to 1 and 2 though.

I've always been a fan of large parties as well, so the gameplay, while traditional, satisfies me a lot more than the average RPG. Choosing, outfitting and fighting with 6 characters should be a standard for the genre, IMO.

Most amazing jew boots

This thread is starting to give me great hopes for suikoden I, II and V. The only Suikoden games I've played so far are III, IV and Tactics, and only Tactics was dissapointing to me at all. III was the best of the ones I've played, With IV being a worthy runner up. I agree Tactics was very lackluster in almost every respect.

I guess I'll get started on that Suikoden II ISO I downloaded as soon as I have time to do a bit of gaming.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I've always heard mixed reactions about Suikoden III. It definitely feels different, but I never quite got into it. The storyline was a good read though. Too bad it's so out of order with everything else.

When you play the others, you'll see how poorly the events that held IV together were put together. Felt like too much was random or I'd be sidetracking everywhere to trigger an event. IV is like, "Here's a character/bunch of characters. They're joining your party". V is like, "Here's a character/bunch of characters and here's why they matter..." And don't get me started on the boat overworld...PAH!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Suikoden IV is terrible. Utter trash. Tactics is even worse, if possible. I'd skip both of them.

Suikoden III is uneven (and way too long) but once it gets going, the story does pack some punch. Shame about the music and battle system, though...

II is the best in the series, followed by V. I recently replayed I and it hasn't dated very well (mostly thanks to some surprisingly sloppy writing). I replayed II directly afterwards and was blown away. Not only has it not dated but if anything, it's gotten better. There are moments that choke me up just thinking about them...

A lot of people knock V for the extended opening but I think it's one of the best parts of the game. Lots of juicy character development. Without it, there would be no impact when all sorts of crap happens.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Suikoden I and II are simply amazing. I actually prefer the gameplay and "feel" of Suikoden I to II, but II has the edge over I when it comes to sheer unadulterated epic storytelling.

FELIPE NO

I agree with most people in this thread. Despite being horrendously inconsistent, the Suikodes series is my favourite. It goes a little something like this: I = II > V > (hueg jump) IV > III > Tactics, ranging from an almost-perfect 10/10 to an abysmal -4.

Definitely check II and V out if you can. The underlying plot that encompasses all of the games is incredible. Seriously, incredible and well-thought out and planned. It hasn't crashed yet, even with some crummy battle systems and really bland characters.

So basically, when Suikoden stinks it stinks, but when it shines, it fuckin' shines.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I found Suikoden III more enjoyable than IV at least. I remember playing III one summer and it was entertaining up to a point. Then I just tried to finish it for the sake of finishing it. At least the story seemed more interesting than IV. I've also never played Tactics. Finally, Suikoden V is definitely the game you want to spend time playing before or after going through Suikoden II. I have very few complaints about V.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

If I may, as a non-foaming fanatic, chip in for a moment~

I basically played through Suikoden I just so I could play Suikoden II without feeling I'm missing out on some plot. It has not aged well, but it is short (I finished it in like 16 hours or so) and at least it deepens the world which really is surprisingly well written. Playing II was an entirely different matter and it really is great stuff. I feel it let me down storywise very roughly towards the end (yes I know about the other endings, but even the best ending felt unsatisfying), souring the experience as a whole. As a result some of the oldish RPG design pokes at the eye, but not too much to make me feel it's a bad game in any way.

Like Chrono Trigger, it's horribly overrated, but anyone interested in RPGs should at least play it (or them both) for themselves. It's at least great stuff for most parts.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Suikoden III is a very slow, methodical game. If you're a fan of tried and true formulas in RPGs, Suikoden III is stellar. It introduced a lot of the battle customization options the later games in the series used (the Skill system, in particular), and the game remains pretty popular still. The story's biggest plot twist are common info around Suikoden forums, so I suggest you stay away from those for now. Thomas is also the best Tenkai Star in the entire series.

Suikoden IV happens to be my second-favorite game in the series. A lot of people fail to notice that it's a dungeon-crawler that's light on story and heavy on fast-paced combat, so some longtime fans are a bit butthurt. The story is... redeemable with the fleshing out Suikoden Tactics did. Lots of nostalgia nods, which I was fond of (overused in Suikoden V, though).

Suikoden Tactics is mainly a introduction to the Strategy-RPG series. There are some legitimately hard stages, but most are cake when you properly use runic tiles (which are extremely fun). The story helps patch up some loopholes that Suikoden IV left, like why Rune Cannons have disappeared from the Suikoden world by the time of the first Suikoden. The game tacks on a hilariously dumb plot twist right at the end, though.

Suikoden V, meanwhile, is my least-liked game in the series.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Suikoden was one of my first RPGS for the PS1. It was expensive but worth every penny. IT actually was one of those games where I took my chances and thankfully I won out with an excellent game, having an excellent soundtrack, and an excellent story.

I have not played but do own Suikoden II. I guess time constraints is the reason but I suppose my PSP will help me with accomplishing the goal of beating it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I'm glad to hear that some of you did have some fun playing Suikoden III and IV, and it was especially refreshing to hear so many conflicting opinions. I know now that the early PS2 installments in the series are not universally condemned. I intend to approach Suikoden III with an open mind, and I'm pleased to hear that the story is praised by at least some players.

I've got a weakness for the type of grand narrative that spans multiple installments. I tend to enjoy the growing richness of the setting, and I usually want to play, watch or read all available installments. I'm probably into Suikoden for the long haul, so I wanted to hear that there might be something to appreciate about the middle games in the series. I'll probably post my impressions of each game in the series in my hitherto neglected journal.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Yes, if you haven't already done so, play Suikoden II. I think you'll enjoy it. The only other advice I would give is to use a walkthrough for IV, assuming that you are determined to play IV. This is not something I normally recommend, but sailing everywhere takes so long that you'll probably appreciate the time saved.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'll probably be starting Suikoden II within the next few days. It was always on the list of things to play. I just wanted to hear what people have to say about the other games in the series.

FELIPE NO

The first two Suikodens are two of the greatest games ever made in my opinion. In fact, I'm planning on replaying II once I finsh Rogue Galaxy and figure out how ePSXe works (I own a PS copy but I want to take screenshots to make a quiz for the theme week). I never played III as it never got a European release and my PS2 isn't chipped.

IV wasn't as bad as a lot of people make out. The story is far less epic, sailing around in the boat is gay as you like and a lot of the characters are carbon copies of each other with no real story to them. You don't get the sense you have different characters in your party the same way you do with other Suikodens. Also, they're all way too easy to recruit. I got all 108 on my first play through without using a guide and without really struggling to find any. It's an enjoyable game though and worth playing.

V is awesome, I really enjoyed it. Again I got all 108 on my first run but you really have to go hunting for some characters and give it some thought as to how to recruit others. I think if you use a guide on your first play through you're really missing the point of the game. The challenge comes not from winning the fights and setting up your characters as it does in something like SMT:Nocturne but rather from paying attention to what people say to you and figuring out how to recruit them. The strategy battles are a bit crap, I prefer the turnbased ones in SII but they're still enjoyable enough. V's main problem is a couple of seriously over powered characters who can pretty much break the game with the right combination of runes but you don't have to use them, there's plenty of others to choose from after all...

Tactics is fucking bollocks. I had high hopes for it, being a big fan of Konami's Vandal Hearts games but Tactics is basically a terrible srpg. The characters are all pretty much vanilla, the story is obvious, the voice acting makes we want to kill people (Who the fuck pronounces "Rune cannons" with the emphasis on the word "cannon" anyway?), several of the recruitable characters are entirely luck to get hold of and basic features of srpgs such as being higher up giving your ranged weapons longer reach are left out, removing pretty much all tactical interest in the battles. I never even bothered to finish it, it really is that bad.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I have only played Suikoden III out of the Suikoden games. After playing it for a bit I thought, "Are people deranged to like the Suikoden games?" Afterwards I had heard it was one of the worst of the series, so that's good to know. Otherwise, I would have thought the other trash as well. I just hated everything about III, including the movement system, the battle systems, everything. Honestly I didn't find anything redeeming about it and didn't waste much time in Ebaying it. My plan is to pick up S1 and SII some day.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

For me i found Suikoden 4 to be a little better than Suikoden 3 in someways (gameplay, interface wise)

But Suikoden 3 is more story oriented and the fact that thomas is so cool and you have a castle named budehuc beats the shit out of suikoden 4s story.

P.S I didn't play Tactics, as i fell asleep at the first mission that would be a tutorial and yes i'm not lying here.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I've noticed a recurring pattern in which Tactics literally causes people to fall asleep while playing. Is it really THAT boring? I mean, I thought Suikoden 4 was real slow and dull overall, but it never made me feel like I was about to fall asleep while playing. I suppose I could just try playing the used copy of Tactics that I bought even though that was mainly for collection related purposes.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I played a few missions of tactics, and basically said "fuck this is boring, I'll use a faq and blow through it for the story." Few more missions I said "Fuck this sucks, screw the story I'm done."

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I absolutely adore 2 and all, but I don't think 1 gets quite enough love as it should. You should definitely try to play it before 2 if possible.. or at least play it all. Anyway, I have not played 4, tactics, or 5.

I thought 3 was ok, but I was severely disappointed with it since I loved the first two games so much. I was hoping to see more of the characters from the other two games in it, but there were barely any. I found myself caring little for most of the characters and the plot, which is quite a feat considering how easily I get swept up in rpgs. The music was also rather bland except for a few tracks.

I was speaking idiomatically.