Atheist parents!

I'll teach my children the truth. I'll simply tell them that religion has always been to the peasants true; to the philosophers false; and to the kings as useful. I'll explain how religion belongs to our prehistory and is our first and worst attempt at understanding the origins of the universe and our species. I'll tell them how religion came from a period when natural events would have appeared wholly mysterious and terrifying. Religion is from a time when we didn't know-we had no way to know-that the Earth was a sphere, or that micro-organisms existed and had dominion over us. I'll reinforce that we now have a much better explanation and understanding about our situation in this rather odd solar system.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

But "agnostic" means something different....?

Agnostic means skepticism towards the idea of god.

To JackyBoy: And precisly what is that explanation???

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

Agnostic means skepticism towards the idea of god.

That was my point. Thanks. -_-

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Quote:

Agnostic means skepticism towards the idea of god.

No it doesn't. It means not holding a certainty about things unknowable. It's as much skepticism towards atheism as it is towards the divine.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Well, being skeptic can be held as being uncertain, and being uncertain towards the idea of god also means being uncertain about god not existing, so it amounts to that, yes.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

To not believe in god as strongly as a theistic religion does believe in god, pretty much makes Atheism a religion as well. If you'd rather be a part of the group that doesn't profess any certain beliefs, it's best to just be agnostic.

But that implies that you're ambivalent on the whole thing! ;_;

I'm not ambivalent about it. I just don't think there's much to be passionate about! Atheists are really good at being passionate about nothing. =/

FELIPE NO

Well, it doesn't mean that the person will necessarily try to force his beliefs onto you. It's fanatacism that's the real danger. Talking about your beliefs isn't a bad thing, doing everything possible to make sure you come to take it as the truth, no matter what the cost, is what is dangerous.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

I just believe that anyone who claims to have the answers is pushing some agenda on me (read: religion). The existence or non-existence of god isn't what makes or breaks the religion label, it's the agenda pushing, at least in my eyes.

Couldn't agree with you more on that one. I wanted to say that, but I thought it may be misconstrued as something it's not.

And yea, all that stuff about fanaticism. Agree.

But in a way, I think teaching your kids about a religion as though it's a fact or how things "should be perceived as" is, well, kind of fanatic.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well, I agree with your position, and I have adopted it myself quite a long time ago. I am still interested in hearing about different religions though, as I feel it to be quite educating in most instances, as religious beliefs, when taken apart from the institutions that promote them, can sometimes propose models in terms of morals that can be interesting. It also helps to understand people from all walks of life to know what it is that they believe in.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

Well, I agree with your position, and I have adopted it myself quite a long time ago. I am still interested in hearing about different religions though, as I feel it to be quite educating in most instances, as religious beliefs, when taken apart from the institutions that promote them, can sometimes propose models in terms of morals that can be interesting. It also helps to understand people from all walks of life to know what it is that they believe in.

Willingly and voluntarily educating yourself about other religions is not "pushing an agenda" at all. I think it's important to be educated about other religions and beliefs. It also lends a greater understanding of the human mind to those who wish to know why people do things and where we stand as a species.

I don't think anyone here would ever imply that education - regardless of subject matter - is a bad thing.

It's funny about some of those zealots, though. You know how they can get. (This includes atheists)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

@Remy: It just sounded like you were giving the definition a tilt to it. The term seems very flexible to me. You could attend church, pray regularly, and not believe for a moment in the torments of hellfire. That would give you some agnostic value. As would rejecting major religions' teachings by and large, but curious to other aspects of mysticism like spirits, out of body experiences, or deja vu. It's just that you don't put absolute stock in anything that involves forces unseen.

Back on topic, the parent would have to discern the maturity level of the child to handle discussion on the matter. I don't think it would be wrong to tactfully avoid or give non detailed answers to the ins and outs of belief with a six year old just as you might when they ask where babies come from or how Santa makes it to everyone's house in a single night. Don't lead them to a conclusion when they're young, but don't give them no guidance whatsoever.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Sorry about the ambiguity.

About the children thing, it is true that certain things can be hard to grasp before a certain age, but I'm not so sure that I'd be able to give any other answer than 'I honestly don't know' to the question of god. As to the place babies come from, I don't think telling them is necessarily the end of the world.

So, how does Santa go around the world in one night???

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

So, how does Santa go around the world in one night???

Here's a more interesting debate: do you tell your kids about Santa Claus? I've had this debate with so many people so many times. (I would)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

That, I honestly don't know. I can't recall having much love for the guy, but I know for a fact that my girlfriend's opinion on it is that we should definitely do it. Then again, I think we should eliminate christmas altogether, so I might be held as having an extreme view on the subject... So I probably would do it, if only for her.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

That, I honestly don't know. I can't recall having much love for the guy, but I know for a fact that my girlfriend's opinion on it is that we should definitely do it. Then again, I think we should eliminate christmas altogether, so I might be held as having an extreme view on the subject... So I probably would do it, if only for her.

Why eliminate Christmas altogether??

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Because I feel it has taken a turn for the worst in our society, and that it is a perfect example of needless consumtion. I'm not talking about the vacation aspect of it, simply the part about going out to buy stuff for people while trying to figure out what they want/need, when most of us have pretty much all we need and go buy for ourselves what we want. I'm not suggesting that all of you are rich. I am not rich either. It's just that, in my view, if you want to give something to someone because you feel they would appreciate the said thing or simply because you feel like being nice, by all means do so, and I do that all the time. Buying stuff for someone just because on that specific day you HAVE to give them something or it won't go over well socially I care less for.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

Because I feel it has taken a turn for the worst in our society, and that it is a perfect example of needless consumtion. I'm not talking about the vacation aspect of it, simply the part about going out to buy stuff for people while trying to figure out what they want/need, when most of us have pretty much all we need and go buy for ourselves what we want. I'm not suggesting that all of you are rich. I am not rich either. It's just that, in my view, if you want to give something to someone because you feel they would appreciate the said thing or simply because you feel like being nice, by all means do so, and I do that all the time. Buying stuff for someone just because on that specific day you HAVE to give them something or it won't go over well socially I care less for.

While I agree with your ideas about consumerism and needless consumption, I'd hope you'd also find a sense of giving to those in need and generosity in the season.

At the risk of sounding like a sentimental asshole, presents don't make Christmas - the spirit does it for me. Winter, being kind and generous to your neighbor, so on and so forth - this is what I find valuable.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I agree with being a giving person. I just don't understand why people couldn't just be more considerate year round instead.

You do bring up a good point though, about celebrating the act of giving and all...

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Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

I agree with being a giving person. I just don't understand why people couldn't just be more considerate year round instead.

You do bring up a good point though, about celebrating the act of giving and all...

No, no, I agree with you. But most people need a special circumstance to feel generous and giving, it seems. (That statement has nothing to do with religion) If Christmas fulfills that basic need, even once a year, I'm happy teaching my kid about it.

Festivus, baby.

Devo, sadly, I do too. I don't save at Christmas. I buy/make presents for people, but I am also unusually generous with my money. I eat out at a restaurant? I leave a 40% tip. I buy a coffee? Leave extra cash. Someone needs help with something, even if they're a stranger? I try to help. Doesn't always have to be cash! =D

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Quote:

I wasn't brought up with a religious background but my parents still celebrated Christmas and Easter with me.

The way I was raised, this was vise-versa I got so screwed.

I was speaking idiomatically.

That's the one, yep.

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As far as Santa is concerned, I won't bring that onto my kids. It's completely unnessecary. They're going to find out eventually and I'd love to keep misinformation to a bare minimum when I raise them. Though hell if they create some other concept for Christmas I'd be all for that especially if they are creating it entirely with their imaginations and isn't being derivative.

Oh yeah and I'd ask them not to ruin it for the other kids. They want to be ignorant, that's fine, I'd rather not have to answer to disgruntled parents who choose to put up that charade.

FELIPE NO

Just don't talk about it, let your kids decide for themselves. As an athiest as well I strongly beelive in free thought and I imagine you do too. Being athiest is being independant and you should allow your kids to be too.

My parents and Dad's grandparents for that matter are all athiest.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

My mother was (and still is) an extremely zealous, almost fanatical Christian. She makes LSword look almost sane by comparison. She refuses to believe in evolution, not becuase she doesn't think there is enough evidence or anything like that but soley because she believes that the Bible should be taken literally, all of it, every last bit. For the record we're in the U.K, a land where everyone knows that evolution is a fact, or at least they should know since we don't have all that creationism crap.

When I was younger she would take me and my brother to her meeting hall every sunday where we spent 6 hours being told that the Bible was literally true and that you should never, ever question it.

Luckily both me and my brother have stong anti-authoritarian tendencies, as well as the capacity for critical and logical thinking. While both me and my brother are athiets, my mother has decided to start indoctrinating my youngest brother by telling him things like evolution is false and that catholics and homosexuals are evil. Naturally I've started showing him things like Randi and Dawkins on the sly.

When I have kids the plan is to never bring up religion until they do, which they probably will after their first R.E lesson. I'll tell them my position and why I chose that position while stressing that I could be wrong and instead of blindly following me they should think for themselves. That or I'll teach them that I am god and should be served at all times no matter how insane my commandments are.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

My mom had a decent method I think. She just let us choose whatever, and doesn't judge us for whatever religion we choose. She also likes the fact that me and my sister go to a church, because we have another form of support other than home. She didn't go out of her way to inform us about religion or anything, but she didn't stop us from learning when we did find out about it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.