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Further Proof That Texans Are Some Trigger-Happy Crackers
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Paco
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 07:59 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 05:59 PM #1 of 127
Further Proof That Texans Are Some Trigger-Happy Crackers

Texan Kills Thieves: Hero or Homicidal?

Quote:
Texan kills thieves: Hero or homicidal?

By LIZ AUSTIN PETERSON Associated Press Writer
© 2007 The Associated Press

HOUSTON — The cha-chick of a shell entering a shotgun's chamber rattled through the 911 line just before Joe Horn stepped out his front door.

Horn, 61, had phoned police when he saw two men break into his neighbor's suburban Houston home through a window in broad daylight. Now they were getting away with a bag of loot.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

He did.

Admirers, including several of his neighbors, say Horn is a hero for killing the burglars, protecting his neighborhood and sending a message to would-be criminals. Critics call him a loose cannon. His attorney says Horn just feared for his life.

Prosecuting Horn could prove difficult in Texas, where few people sympathize with criminals and many have an almost religious belief in the right to self-defense. The case could test the state's self-defense laws, which allow people to use deadly force in certain situations to protect themselves, their property and their neighbors' property.

Horn was home in Pasadena, about 15 miles southeast of Houston, on Nov. 14 when he heard glass breaking, said his attorney, Tom Lambright. He looked out the window and saw 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and 30-year-old Diego Ortiz using a crowbar to break out the rest of the glass.

He grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun and called 911, Lambright said.

"Uh, I've got a shotgun," he told the dispatcher. "Uh, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher responded. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn and the dispatcher spoke for several minutes, during which Horn pleaded with the dispatcher to someone to catch the men and vowed not to let them escape. Over and over, the dispatcher told him to stay inside. Horn repeatedly said he couldn't.

When the men crawled back out the window carrying a bag, Horn began to sound increasingly frantic.

"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said as a shell clicked into the chamber. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."

A few seconds passed.

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Lambright said Horn had intended to take a look around when he left his house and instead came face to face with the burglars, standing 10 to 12 feet from him in his yard.

Horn is heavyset and middle-aged and would have been no match in a physical confrontation with the two men, who were young and strong, Lambright said. So when one or both of them "made lunging movements," Horn fired in self-defense, he said.

Family members of the two shooting victims have made few public statements.

Diamond Morgan, Ortiz's widow, who has an 8-month-old son with him, told Houston television station KTRK that she was stunned by Horn's statements on the 911 tape. "It's horrible," she said. "He was so eager, so eager to shoot."

The Associated Press could not find a telephone listing for Morgan.

Pasadena police were still investigating Monday and planned to present their findings to Harris County prosecutors within the next two weeks, police spokesman Vance Mitchell said. From there, it is expected to be presented to a grand jury. In the meantime, Horn remains uncharged.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In some cases, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbors' property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

At issue is whether it was reasonable for Horn to fear the men and whether his earlier threats on the 911 call showed he planned to kill them no matter what, said Fred C. Moss, who teaches criminal law at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The only good thing to have ever come out of Texas is Stevie Ray Vaughan.

THAT'S RIGHT, GECH. I SAID IT.

EDIT: Now with Audio Goodness (on YouTube).

Jam it back in, in the dark.
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:12 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 07:12 PM #2 of 127
Shock of shock, Mexican thieves in Houston. Pardon me while I shed a tear.

You heard me, beaner.

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Little Brenty Brent Brent
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:13 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 06:13 PM 2 #3 of 127
Whatever, they shouldn't have been breaking into some dude's house and stealing shit. Maybe the guy wasn't in the right in killing them, but I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it. Assholes had it coming.

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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:26 PM #4 of 127
I don't think he was all that eager to kill. I think in his mind he gave law enforcement a chance, but faced with the choice of watching them get away or stopping them, he decided to stop them. Not saying it was right, but I don't think he was slavering over there at the chance of blowing away some mexican negroes.

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no


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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:28 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 05:28 PM 4 #5 of 127
Whatever, they shouldn't have been breaking into some dude's house and stealing shit. Maybe the guy wasn't in the right in killing them, but I'm certainly not going to get bent out of shape about it. Assholes had it coming.
I still don't understand why people accept death as a reasonable penalty for theft.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Gechmir
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:39 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 08:39 PM #6 of 127
I don't see the problem here :3 A few less scum to be concerned about.

THAT'S RIGHT, PACO. I SAID IT TOO. <3

They were on his property and he decided to take matters in to his own hands. He acted well within the law to defend his own property however he sees fit. Regardless of what some may say, it isn't illegal =o But the victims probably were looool

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?
Hey, maybe you should try that thing Chie was talking about.

niki
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:40 PM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 03:40 AM #7 of 127
Well the text was way better than the audio. I was expecting to hear John Wayne or something.

It will be hard to tell if it was really self defense or not, which is what really matters. I don't think he went out with the firm intention to kill them, but he was sure prepared to.

also I must admit you guy's reactions are kinda comforting with all the nonsense that's happening around here ;_;

FELIPE NO
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 08:40 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 10:10 PM #8 of 127
I don't think he was all that eager to kill. I think in his mind he gave law enforcement a chance, but faced with the choice of watching them get away or stopping them, he decided to stop them. Not saying it was right, but I don't think he was slavering over there at the chance of blowing away some mexican negroes.
I'll agree with you there. I can't listen to the youtube audio tape due to it being blocked, but I think you hit the nail on the head. He obviously didn't want to see these burglars get away so he felt like he had to take the law into his own hands since the police had not arrived yet. I would like to think that people don't want to take advantage of an opportunity to shoot someone.

He could of been in a paniced state and felt like these people were an immediate threat to his own life and made the choice to kill them. He did give them a warning and honestly if someone had a gun aimed at me I would certainly try my hardest not to get shot. He could of wounded them or I'm sure there could of been other options available that didn't have to result in this man taking two lives. I don't certainly endorse what he did, but its not as if he covered it up. He admitted to what he did, and its up to law to decide if he should get punished or not.

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Little Brenty Brent Brent
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 09:10 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 07:10 PM 8 #9 of 127
I still don't understand why people accept death as a reasonable penalty for theft.
I still don't understand why people can't work an honest job if they want something instead of going out and stealing the fruits of another man's hard work. Especially when they have responsibilities to other people, like a wife a child. Now that he made choices that ended with his death he's not the only one who's fucked. Maybe he should have thought about that a bit, too.

I'm not even pro-gun ownership or anything. In fact, I've never fired a weapon in my life. I am, though, pro-not being a fucking asshole.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Last edited by Little Brenty Brent Brent; Nov 26, 2007 at 09:13 PM.
Paco
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Old Nov 26, 2007, 09:24 PM Local time: Nov 26, 2007, 07:24 PM #10 of 127
Seriously. I own two guns and, while I don't personally ever see myself aiming to put anyone down for good with them, I don't exactly see why I can't if I feel my safety or the safety of my family is threatened. If fuckers are breaking into my house to steal my shit, you better believe I'm at least going to put a slug in his/her leg just to show these fuckers I mean business. I've attempted to do it before... but I missed.

I'm not a very good shot.

How ya doing, buddy?
Karasu
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 03:13 AM #11 of 127
Not to play devil's advocate, but there is one thing you all are forgetting to see. It's not his house being burglarized, it's his neighbor's. Now what i'm hoping he did was approach them with the shotgun and force them to stop, but perhaps they didn't do that and began to go and attack him, which forced him to shoot the shotgun. In THAT aspect, I see that as self-defense. However, if he fired that shotgun if those two were not getting ready to attack him, then I can't see that as justification for shooting them, despite them stealing from a neighbor's house. I don't see why if he had the control of the situation, just keep that shotgun on their heads as a fear tactic to make them stand still in fear of getting their heads blown off, I know I wouldn't fucking move if a boomstick was pointed at my poor head.

If anything, he should have went outside and tried to get a license plate and car description. I know it's not much, but the law could have easily taken care of those punks in that aspect.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Tails
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 03:35 AM #12 of 127
I don't care whose house they were breaking in, the point remains they shouldn't have been doing that in the first place. They got shot, they died, who fucking cares? It's their reward for their actions.

Was he right for doing it that way? Fuck yes.

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#654: Braixen
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:08 AM #13 of 127
They were on his property and he decided to take matters in to his own hands. He acted well within the law to defend his own property however he sees fit. Regardless of what some may say, it isn't illegal =o But the victims probably were looool
According to the videos his use of force was not lawful. The law, correct me if I am wrong, allows use of deadly force to defense your own property, not your neighboors.

If the suspects attacked Horn then he would be well within the law to fire upon the two victims, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that two guys who robbed an unoccupied house would charge a crazed man with a shotgun.

In addition, I believe that if he had actually been threatened we would have heard more than "Boom, you're dead." The crime was reported, officers were en route, and there is no evidence that the victims had used, or had any intent to use, any type of force. His actions, whether or not lawful, were excessive and unnecessary. Whoever said the law was always right is a god damn fool, and whoever thinks this man was justified in his actions is one too.

Just one more reason for me to stay the hell out of Texas.

I was speaking idiomatically.
Tails
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:23 AM 1 #14 of 127
According to the videos his use of force was not lawful. The law, correct me if I am wrong, allows use of deadly force to defense your own property, not your neighboors.
Texas is a world apart man, something you'd do well not to forget. I believe Texas' penal code extends rights not only to your own property but that of your neighbors (worded as a "third party") as well.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

#654: Braixen

Last edited by Tails; Nov 27, 2007 at 04:28 AM.
Paco
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:27 AM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 02:27 AM #15 of 127
Texas is a world apart man, something you'd do well not to forget. I believe Texas' penal code extends rights not only to your own property but that of your neighbors as well.
I have actually heard this as well although I'm quite sure that the rights to protect your neighbor's land with deadly force are only extended through expressed permission although I'm not sure if it has to be down on paper or not. Mikey would probably know this better than I.

FELIPE NO
Bradylama
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:29 AM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 04:29 AM #16 of 127
I'm not a very good shot.
Well Christ, Paco that's because you're not fucking Robocop and should always aim for center mass, that guy could've killed you. =/

They weren't breaking in to his own house so he can't claim he was protecting his property, and there's no evidence to suggest that his person was in danger. I'm not sure how this doesn't qualify as murder, exactly.

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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:33 AM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 03:33 AM #17 of 127
Well Christ, Paco (...) that guy could've killed you. =/
Brady feeling worried for Paco, I'm bursting into tears!

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Paco
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:37 AM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 02:37 AM #18 of 127
Well Christ, Paco that's because you're not fucking Robocop and should always aim for center mass, that guy could've killed you. =/
Yeah well... I was only 16 at the time. I kinda didn't know any better.

There's nowhere I can't reach.
Bradylama
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 04:54 AM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 04:54 AM #19 of 127
Brady feeling worried for Paco, I'm bursting into tears!
YouTube Video


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Old Nov 27, 2007, 12:06 PM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 10:06 AM #20 of 127
I still don't understand why people accept death as a reasonable penalty for theft.
Such a snooty little bitch, aren't you Capo?


Even if the guys had obeyed the 911 operator's commands, this guys lives in a well off neighborhood. Places like this are target-areas for burglaries. Not to mention, most criminals that get away with a crime tend to repeat the offense. I know that even from stunts I've pulled myself.

This guys house was in some form of risk if those men weren't caught. I've been robbed by niggers before, and my neighbors called it in. I sure wish they would've come out with a shotgun. But instead, all my belongings disappeared.

How ya doing, buddy?
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 12:52 PM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 06:52 PM #21 of 127
They weren't breaking in to his own house so he can't claim he was protecting his property, and there's no evidence to suggest that his person was in danger. I'm not sure how this doesn't qualify as murder, exactly.
If it was murder, it was good murder!



I was speaking idiomatically.

Last edited by Kolba; Nov 27, 2007 at 01:22 PM.
DarkMageOzzie
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 01:45 PM #22 of 127
If anything, he should have went outside and tried to get a license plate and car description. I know it's not much, but the law could have easily taken care of those punks in that aspect.
Nowhere in the article does it say they had a car. As far as we know, they were trying to get away on foot. If they were illegal immigrants as several people have joked in this thread, even less likely they had a car.

As for some people who said they didn't believe people would rush an armed man. There are things you have to take into mind. People panic when they're in trouble, they don't want to get shot but they also don't want to go to prison when the cops arrive. The man was 61, maybe they thought he was a terrible shot at his age?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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Old Nov 27, 2007, 02:35 PM 2 #23 of 127
I know you guys are going to jump all over me for saying this.

But seriously. There's this thing called home owners insurance. If I were watching my neighbors getting robbed, I'd have a fucking camera and I'd not risk my own life by taking pictures of them through my window. I'd take a few pictures, make sure I got some pretty good shots, and then tell the neighbors about my pictures when I got home.

Really. It's only a bunch of STUFF. They were shot over material goods which would have been covered by home owner's insurance. It was an overreaction to KILL them. The least he could have done was shoot them in the KNEECAP or something.

Fuck that murder over robbery shit. It's not right. Self-defense my ass. The guy was considered a "loose cannon." And I believe it.

If the spics were next door raping and killing the neighbors, I'd say their deaths were justified. But robbing a house? Give me a fucking break. The Texan just wanted a chance to use the gun for something other than shooting deer.

FELIPE NO

Last edited by I poked it and it made a sad sound; Nov 27, 2007 at 02:38 PM.
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Old Nov 27, 2007, 02:45 PM Local time: Nov 27, 2007, 11:45 AM #24 of 127
I'd shoot anyone trespassing in my home. I'd think for one second less if I have a family. I wouldn't shoot to kill. I'd aim for the knees. Thighs if I'm feeling mellow. Feet if I need a laugh. I've been burglarized and it sucked, but it isn't worth a life. It's better to make a point a person can learn from.

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Old Nov 27, 2007, 02:46 PM 1 #25 of 127
oh lol this thread

Throw the book at the old man. He wasn't in danger, they weren't entering his home, they didn't even know he was there. There was no one in the home that would have been put in danger by these thieves.

Yeah I mean they're assholes but Grandpa Vigilante there is grade-a all the way. I mean, as long as 'being a dick' is sufficient grounds for punishment.

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