Moment of Silence

I am seventeen years old, and I go to school in Illinois.

There is a new law that says every school in Illinoying has to take a moment of silence every day after the pledge of allegence.

Absolutly rediculous,

Quote:

Illinois schools are now required to give students a moment of silence at the beginning of the day so that they may pray or reflect after state lawmakers approved the mandate last Thursday.

The House agreed with the Senate in a 74-37 vote to override Gov. Rod Blagojevich's veto of the legislation.

The law, which took effect immediately, reads: “In each public school classroom the teacher in charge shall observe a brief period of silence with the participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day.”

While the governor had said in his veto that he believes in the “power of prayer,” he felt the law violated the Constitution’s separation of church and state.

But supporters of the legislation say the intention was not to mandate prayer in schools but instead to benefit students’ well-being by providing a moment of peace in a noisy society.

“This was never about trying to require prayer in the schools," said Rep. Will Davis (D-Homewood), the bill’s chief sponsor. “This is a way for teachers and students to [start] their day off in the right way.”

Davis added that time allocated for reflection could possibly avert tragedies like the recent school shooting in Cleveland, Ohio, where a high school student killed two students and two teachers before turning the gun on himself.

Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) said a moment of silence could allow students the opportunity to enjoy listening to the “rustling of leaves” or the “chirping of a bird.” It would be a break from a “rushed, exciting world in which they live that helps to create the violence,” she added.

Concerned Christian Americans and the Illinois Family Institute, two organizations that backed the legislation, agreed that the silence would help students cope with the everyday stress they may face.

Critics, however, have called the new law unnecessary, pointing to a state law that already allow schools to observe a moment of silence before instruction.

“The principal can say we're going to do it in our school. I know teachers that already do it. Why is it necessary to say you shall?" asked Rep. Bill Black (R-Danville), who rejected the legislation.

According to a 1962 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, public schools are not allowed to lead students in prayer although students can still pray. In 2000, a U.S. District court upheld a Virginia law that required schools to observe “moments of silence” at the beginning of instruction. Eleven states require public schools to hold such moments, while 23 others leave it optional.

Since the 2002 Illinois state law only allows and not require moments of silence, supporters of the mandate argue that some schools and teachers choose not grant them to students.

In Chicago, administrators are not aware of any schools that currently set aside time for silent meditation, according to the Chicago Tribune.

Some critics also expressed concern over the implications the law may have on instruction time or disciplinary actions within the schools. The law does not articulate any penalties for schools that don't hold a moment of silence

Sponsors acknowledged that it may take time to formulate rules to implement it.

Sen. Todd Sieben (R-Geneseo), who voted for the override in the Senate last week, noted that despite the mandate students can choose to spend the time praying or not.

".A moment of silence is whatever you want: silence, reflection, prayer, meditation. There are a lot of things you can do in a moment of silence that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion or imposing your religious views on somebody else.”

They say stuff like this

Quote:

A moment of silence is whatever you want: silence, reflection, prayer, meditation. There are a lot of things you can do in a moment of silence that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion or imposing your religious views on somebody else.

but the point of the law was to get kids to pray before school.

What really annoyed me was when our principal made the announcement yesterday that we were going to observe a moment of silence, he made no mention that it was a law, nor did he give any reason why were taking a moment of silence. It annoyed me becuase, not only do I personally think that it is unconstatutional but kids dont have any idea what they are doing.

You could almost look at it like (agian, at least in my schools case) like they are tricking us.

Arent you not supposed to have religoun in public schools?

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, while controversial, it's not unconstitutional because a moment of silence doesn't promote or endorse religion in anyway. As they said -- you don't have to pray, you can simply use that time to do whatever you want, albeit silently.

The act of legislating a moment of silence, in my interpretation of the 1st Amendment, isn't a violation.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It's not unconstitutional, but it's still absurd. Even IF someone wants to pray, this isn't the kind of shit our legislatures should be spending their time on.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

How about they instead audit school districts to track where all the millions spent on education are going and what they're being spent on instead of passing this symbolic nonsense?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

But it is only for a couple of seconds. Its not time to do anything but pray.

And I forgot to put where I got it.
Ill. Lawmakers Override Veto; Schools Required to Start with Moment of Silence | Christianpost.com

I was speaking idiomatically.

Best part of the article.

Quote:

Davis added that time allocated for reflection could possibly avert tragedies like the recent school shooting in Cleveland, Ohio, where a high school student killed two students and two teachers before turning the gun on himself.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

On the list of things that our legislatures waste their time on, this is at the bottom regarding things we should actually give a crap about.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

Best part of the article.

Seconded. Where the hell is the proof backing up this abusrd claim? I can see it now.

RUETERS - STUDENT TURNS HIMSELF IN FOR CINSPIRACY TO COMMIT MURDER
A student who had meticulously planned an attack on his schoolmates turned himself to authorities this past weekened, citing the new mandatory 'moment of silence' in his school as the driving force behind his change of heart. "Ever since we got those few seconds on a daily basis, I've juxt been talking myself out of it. You know, in three second conversations."

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Quote:

But it is only for a couple of seconds. Its not time to do anything but pray.

So you are saying that the only possible thing a person can do silently, for what you describe as 'a couple of seconds' is pray? Are you sure you want to stand by that?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

We're talking about high school students. I don't think most of them have the maturity to use a few seconds of silence. Then again, when everyone around is ostentatiously taking a few seconds of silence, it's hard to do anything but feel self-conscious about what you should be thinking about.

The intent is noble and all, but announcing that everyone will now reflect, and then watching a clock...I don't see that as effective in the least.

Also, how will they enforce this? It seems to me that by virtue of the legislature making this mandatory, it creates an additional liability for the school without providing anything in return!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

So talk.

Don't just complain about this on the internet. Actively do something about it.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

This is a flashback moment.....

My grade school tried implementing this almost 30 years ago. Ours was a minute. Time that for yourselves and see how long it is.

The students got rid of it by pointing out that the best times for the moment of silence was during the time you're getting ready to leave the house or walking to school. Not when you were already at school.

You can listen to the birds chirp, the leaves rustle, the rain fall, and the snow land (you can, really), when you're walking to school. And, yes, I walked to school from kindergarten all the way through Senior year in High School. And I did a lot of thinking before I met up with friends.

But, if the day is hectic and you need a moment to "collect your thoughts," then fine. But, it should be on a personal, needed level. Not when you're being told to.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Quote:

So you are saying that the only possible thing a person can do silently, for what you describe as 'a couple of seconds' is pray? Are you sure you want to stand by that?

Yeah, I think that I will stand by that. When you dont tell the students what they are doing--what do you want us to do? Better yet, what do expect us to do? For a couple of seconds? Oh, I guess we can do something constructive~ uh, no. We cant. We're high schoolers, confused high schoolers... who again, dont know what they are doing becuase the principal did not tell us, I found out by my own research.

My friend did not know till I showed her this thread. She said herself that she felt awkward about the whole thing becuase she did not know what it was for. She said its cool for the people who want to pray.

But was is the point of dedicating 30 seconds of your day to silence. I still dont think that it is enough time to do anything constructive.

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Quote:

You could almost look at it like (agian, at least in my schools case) like they are tricking us.

You can't trick someone into praying. Praying is voluntary connection with God, and no one can tell you when, where, or how to pray (according to Christianity).

While i'll agree that a moment of silence every morning before school starts seems a little overboard, i don't really think it's a big deal. There's alot to be offered by silence, as Leknaat already pointed out. Why not take that time to just enjoy existance. No one's telling you that you have to pray.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

My school is telling me that I have to sit here and do nothing for a couple seconds. I SIMPLY WILL NOT ALLOW THIS. How DARE they make a law that for a couple of seconds, while at school, I sit in silence; I might accidentally pray during this time of silence. That is unacceptable.

FELIPE NO

What are you complaining about? Sounds like less time you have to do work in!

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I remember feeling cheated by the government when I first started working. See, I wasn't given paid lunches. Do to some law or other, it was also mandatory for me to take a break of at least a half hour for lunch. The end result of this is that I had to stay at the office a half hour longer to still work 40 hours. 2.5 hours out of my day, that I really didn't want, because a legislature decided it knew best how to manage my time.

I lump this in with that. To a lesser degree, yeah, but I still resent the fact that lawmakers are parsing out my day.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Yeah, I hated that too. A lot of times I'd be doing something I could work on equally well while munching down lunch. One place I was at let you work for 8 hours straight if you work through lunch, then take your 30 minute break at the end of the day (worked great for those of us that didn't have to punch time cards).

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Shit, they've been doing that in all the schools here in delaware since the day after 9/11. Nothing new. I delt with it throughout high school. The way I see it it's 10 seconds of your day you don't have do bullshit schoolwork or make conversation with goony classmates.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by russ

My school is telling me that I have to sit here and do nothing for a couple seconds. I SIMPLY WILL NOT ALLOW THIS. How DARE they make a law that for a couple of seconds, while at school, I sit in silence; I might accidentally pray during this time of silence. That is unacceptable.

Thats not the point, though I find it kind of annoying and piontless.

What I am upset about is what the people who are making these laws are doing, the intent behind the the moment of silence law in the first place, and what other rediculous laws they may be coming up with.

If all it was is a time to be silent, and there was not a motive or something else behind the law then there would be no problem, with me at least.

How ya doing, buddy?

So...you're telling me....that it angers you so much that someone would pass a law mandating a moment of silence because might pray during this time? Does that not sound ridiculous to anyone else?

Look, I think a law requiring a moment of silence is largely unnecessary, but the outrage I'm seeing you express here just seems petty in comparison.

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I did not say that it angers me, I said that it annoys me. In addition I pointed this out becuase I thought it is redicolous that it exists. Thats all.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

All i can see in your annoyance is that you're angered by principal. There's an opportunity to pray so obviously that's what it's for. That is a ridiculous assumption. Do you put up this much of a fuss whenever there is a moment of silence to recognize soldiers who have died in past wars? What about moments of silence for other things, such as 9/11?

FELIPE NO

Look at it this way, Token. If the law is religiously neutral, but it allows prayer in school, wouldn't that similarly mean that other laws which are religiously neutral but negatively impact religion violate the first amendment?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Try being from the south. Down here, in the middle of the bible belt, we had to take a full minute. I used to be the only one (literally) NOT praying, which actually got me in an argument with a few people. Down here, that IS what the moment of silence is for. They may not flat out say that, but it's one of those things thats just understood. Thats just what you do. Theres no assuming thats what the damned thing is for, it just is.
Personally, I usually didn't care one way or the other. Hell, it's only a minute anyway. One damn minute of your life on a daily basis is not going to kill you. It may seem outrageous, but honestly, is it really that big of a deal? It's like ordering at McDonalds and having to wait a few extra minute for them to make fries. Is the wait REALLY that damn horrible? Do you Really have to make that big of a fuckin' deal about it? Not really, but people do anyway.
I realize what your saying, Token, it is the principal of the matter. It's kind of obnoxious to me as well(it always was), but look at it this way. That's one less minute you have to sit through some dumbass lecture about <insert topic here>. Depending on the teacher, that alone can be something to pray about!

Jam it back in, in the dark.