PLAY! A Video Game Symphony

Unique arrangements my ass.

The Chrono arrangments were mostly already existed, with some orchestrations yes, but the way it was put together showed there wasn't that much work. The ending part with Frog's theme and To Far Away times? Its straight from the PS1 anime ending. I've heard the Trigger theme performed in the much older concert CD, along with Eminence's version of Time's Scar. Both did in my opinion a better performance, and didn't hinder it by throwing it into a copy and paste medley. Something about Time's Scar in the Play! medley puts me off. Maybe is the inclusion of Brass.

Kingdom Hearts? Oh god don't even get me started. Invited someone like Yoko to the premiere only to play less than 1 min of her work in a 4 min medley? Should have invited Utada instead. And there was no original arrangment in that one, cept some bad Copy and Paste that caused the themes to NOT flow well together.

The arrangments for Mario, Zelda already existed in other concerts and CDs way before Play! 's time, so again, no real original work was put into it.

MGS theme was just... meh, it was original, but it wasn't even good. VGL was better, and the Eminence's version was also bad ass. I mean, just listen to the beginning, terrible build up to a great theme with just strings, this isn't chamber you know. The drums were playing this weird beat that just throws me off, its really messy and creates dissonance. And no it has nothing to do with the crappy quality of the fan's recording device. If the theme wasn't already strong the whole thing would have fallen apart. And worst is there isn't too much going on between the SAME MAIN THEME being played OVER and OVER. VGL and Eminence combined various main themes from the main game, where as Play! kept playing on the same theme over and over in a very mediocre arrangement. The ending sucked as well, with a slow up the scale ABCD with the theme? Wow, pathetic attempt at dramatic exit. Sounds like a amatuer studen arrangement to me and created little dramatic tension, where as Eminence gave it a very symphonic feeling, and VGL gave it a very cinematic treatement.

You want a unique GOOD arrangement? Listen to Eminence's version of MGS on youtube, or VGL's.

Compare this from Eminece and VGL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfKA4b5SFq4 (The part at 2:14 kicks so much ass.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_6LG8dyE0U (The part at 3:25 creats great tension players felt when they infiltrate in the game. Simplistic but very effective.)

Both have very strong endings with the slow military drum beat that makes it sound like an anthem and tribute to the soldiers.

To this from Play!:

http://media.putfile.com/Metal-gear-Solid-from-Play (Mediocre compare to the above. I felt NOTHING.)

The new works are more impressive, like Blue Dragon and what not, but those were likely arranged already by the original composers. Silent Hill only rocked when Akira was there to perform, and its the only reason I'm very tempted to go. (Well, and the fact its gonna be at the friggin Opera House and the Sydney Symphony, which means superb performance and acoustics, but if the arrangements are mediocre, why bother?)

Play! has the money and resources to do ALOT better, and JMP needs to stop pulling the "My Girlfriend works at Square Enix" card to boost whatever he's trying to pull. Though I am glad they're trying to expand their program, but the sudden change from Lost Oddesey to Lair is disconcerting. Oh, and charging fans to meet and greets is retarded no matter what.

And I doubt game soundtracks make as much profit as one thinks, and I do believe they're released for the sake of the art moreso than just business, look at Mitsuda, alot of his albums latly are from very obscure games not many have really played. He releases it because there are fans who appreciate his work. Most business would have turned away from releasing soundtracks from games no ones heard of, but Mitsuda didn't. And I don't see him hopping on board for some major big game either.

There is always some level of business in anything, but I believe VGM and anime music DOES have some goddamn integrity and art left, alot more than Hollywood movies defintly. When I went to VGL and Eminence, I see alot of work and love put into them. What I have seen from Play! so far in both arrangments and organizing? I don't get the same vibe, and see no reason to waste MY money to see them depsite the fact they have great guests, whom they CHARGE people to meet them.

Most amazing jew boots

I didn't entirely like Eminence's arrangement. Quite powerful and creative, but the drum kit didn't work too great. Definitely has its moments. Just my opinion though so don't bite me for it.

PLAY! sticks well to the Metal Gear Solid original but is also a new arrangement. I respect that and it has grown on me. My favourite of the three is VGL's, though.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Are you kidding? The drum kit is what MADE it great for Eminence! Play!'s drums were horrid, messy and create dissonance throughout the piece. VGL had the advantage of synth. If Eminence didnt use the drums, it would have lost ALOT of its tension and it would feel dry. And MGS is all about tension, be it action or stealth.

And Play!'s version may be new and original, but its no excuse to crappy mediocre arranging. I'll respect it when they actually put some actual good work into it instead of throwing it together like some highschool homework. And its grating after listening to it on repeat for the night. The VGL and Eminence one? God it makes me feel good. Passion from KH2 needed some getting used to and it will grow on you because its experimental. This MGS theme by Play! does not because it plains sucks

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I stated my opinion. You claimed yours was a fact.

I agree percussion was needed, but preferred VGL's use rather than a simple drum kit. I guess it came down to economics.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I have a question for you, Kairi, about the "uniqueness" of the arrangements Play uses: who gives a shit? Is it really that important to you? I mean, no matter how much arranging they do, they're all still the MGS theme, and they all still sound pretty good (this shouldn't even matter, since taste is subjective). I mean, I think the only legitimate complaint you could level against these guys is that they never perform anything else except the main themes (something I'd like to see happen).

Now, I haven't been to any of these concerts, but aside from you, I haven't heard anyone call any of them "thrown together". Like the interview said, JMP is paying for these with his own money, and it's his livelihood on the line. He's not going to make a crappy concert if he can.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Right, because as long as there's money involved the quality has to be good right?

Then tell me why there are god knows how many crappy movies in the world.

Money doesn'y equal quality. Where as VGL and Eminence actually work to make sure their arrangments are the best as possible, Play! not only barely does any work, but when they do it comes out crappy.

Just because it involves money doesn't mean the concert isn't gonna be crappy. Now Play! is not TOTAL crap, but it could be alot better with the franchises involved. I like them to get some better arrangers for one thing. Money is no shield or excuse when it comes to cristism and quality control. Some of us enjoy studying music and like to see better arrangements of VGM. The Play!'s version is no where as good as what VGL and Eminence did, and it sounds so amatuer as well. Like something out of a highschool music student. Some of us do give a shit about well arranged music.

You say money means the music can't be crappy? I've heard fan remixes of VGM that sound better than what Play! did to MGS. Dedication and talent is what makes good music, not money.

And most of my complaints were legit. If I was Yoko, I like to hear MY music played when I'm invited to a concert as a composer guest, instead of a 10% part in a medley. The crappy cut and paste job for the KH theme was horrid and insulting to her.

Arrangment is essential to any piece of music, and its more important for VGM BECAUSE it started with beeps and bops. How is game music gonna be taken seriously if people like Play! butcher the arrangments? Anyone can make up a tune, the arrangement is hard and crucial part.

And Mr.X, Eminence wanted to keep things symphonic and not rely on synths, hence the drum kit. And the beat was alot better than the mess Play! called a drum beat. Considering the changes from synth to drum kit, they did a superb job and the theme was still energetic and cinematic/modern sounding. While I regonise its your opinion, by comparison, the Play!'s version sound so bland, where as Eminence actually sounds like it could be from the soundtrack.

Please don't imply that Eminence is trying to scrimp their budget when you don't know the full situation.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Debates with you go round in circles, so I'm just replying once...

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And Mr.X, Eminence wanted to keep things symphonic and not rely on synths, hence the drum kit.

Haha! That's so funny. You exemplified my point wonderfully. They should kept the drum kit out if they wanted to stay symphonic, as a drum kit is not an orchestral instrument. They could have done a lot with a carefully selected section of percussion instruments.

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And the beat was alot better than the mess Play! called a drum beat.

Opinion, not fact.

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While I regonise its your opinion, by comparison, the Play!'s version sound so bland, where as Eminence actually sounds like it could be from the soundtrack.

If you did, you'd not state objectively 'by comparison, the Play's version sound so bland'... That implies that my opinion is contradicted by a fact.

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Please don't imply that Eminence is trying to scrimp their budget.

Sorry, Eminence 'Volunteer' #3881, but I don't know the intricacies of their budget.

FELIPE NO

Then don't imply anything if you dont' know anything about it. Sheesh.

And while a drum kit is techincallly not part of the orchestra, MGS is a modern theme that requires some sort of modern beat. I can't say that the orchestral percussion can cut it. I mean look at Play!'s version, its a mess cause they seem to wanna replicate a modern rock beat on orchestral percussion, but it sounds like a total mess. I can barely decipher each beat.

Point is, Eminence had stated before they will NOT be using electronics and synths. To me, that sounds like anything else is fair game, as I last recall the drum kit is NOT electronic.

Funny thing, I'm not even a volunteer. I just support them. If anything you should have called me a fangirl to insult me. But at least I actually went to their concert instead of making assumptions.

Now let's stop derailing the thread, I had my say in this whole matter, and I believe my critisims are legit.

How ya doing, buddy?

Actually, PLAY!'s arrangements aren't terrible; they're the best in the business. And I can guarantee you, that's a fact, not an opinion.

And frankly, I have no idea why you're posting in a PLAY! thread when all you do is piss all over them.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Heh, sarcasm eh?

Maybe its because as well as praise there should be some critisim (and from the crap Play! has done in both organizing and arrangment, they deserve it), and I still respond to Play! news that I care about, like say, Akira san coming to good ol's Sydney.

I am still debating on that...

And there's a part of me that has this lingering hope that they will improve themselves.

Bottom line is, this is constructive critism, which I believe I have the right to post on. The only thing Play! can rely on is desperate fans wanting to hear their fav game music live, along with meeting their fav composers. That doesn't affect me much since I've met most of my fav composers (Minus Akira) and I've heard most of the themes live already in other concerts that arranged and peformed better. For those fans, go ahead and have fun, but I have a feeling their money will be more well spend if they went to another concert that's NOT Play!, saves them the extra bucks needed to meet their idols as well as avoiding the horror of the MGS butchery. (Among others I mentioned).

If in the end despite my legit reasons you still wanna support them, go right ahead. But don't say I didn't warn you.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by el jacko

PLAY!'s arrangements aren't terrible; they're the best in the business

Oh Jesus... <_<

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

You guys should really get a grip, seriously.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Kairi.

I think Eminence did better in their MGS arrangement than either PLAY or VGL.

PLAY's arrangement was...interesting...but the whole point of playing the main MGS theme is to invoke excitement and spine-tingling thrills, which this particular version did not do. It was rather repetitive, to be honest.

VGL's arrangement didn't seem to have any effort at all put in. They just did a straight conversion of the MGS2 theme, not even bothering to do their own version of the synth beat, instead relying on a pre-recorded track.

Eminence's arrangement of the MGS3 theme is far superior I reckon. The percussionists did an excellent job replacing the synth beats, and still managed to make the song a thrilling experience.
Compare this to Eminence's ANIF05 arrangement of the MGS2 theme, which was absolutely shocking! They brought in a synth drummer, but he was just all over the place, and they tried to add in Taiko drums, which were just too loud and were the final nails in the coffin.

Eminence DEFINITELY improved in that regard...kudos to them. Their risks pulled off.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The bottom line is that PLAY! and VGL are completely different events that are doing two separate things. I don't know enough about Emminence to comment on it, so I won't.

VGL is a show before it's a game concert. It does an amazing job syncing the video and lighting, and I love the interactive segments. However, you can't really call it an orchestral concert as it features as few as 24 musicians on stage for a number of pieces.

PLAY! is a symphonic concert before it's a show. The syncing is actually not that good, and I think they should just remove the screen all together. However, 69 musicians and a 24 member choir definitely provides a rich, full sound that I have not heard at any of the 4 VGL shows I've attended, and that's okay. I like what each show focuses on, and I believe they offer two very different experiences.

And yeah, the PLAY! arrangements are, for the most part, unique, and written specifically for PLAY!. VGL plays the Mario and Zelda suites that were found on the Orchestral Game Concert CDs, while PLAY! has brand new arrangements. I enjoy the MGS piece at both shows, but they are very different. VGL overlays electronic percussion through the speakers, while PLAY! orchestrates the percussion, which I quite enjoyed. The Chrono Cross/Trigger suite was one of my favorites of the night, and ask anyone who has gone to one of these shows: it's the highlight. Mitsuda has been quoted saying that the arrangement was written specifically for PLAY! in interviews.

The fact of the matter is that I speak with JMP frequently, and never has he mentioned any connection with Square-Enix through family. In fact, JMP worked for Squaresoft for a period of time where he did promotion and marketing, and this is where he established his contacts within the company. For more information regarding this, see the interview that was just published last week: http://www.music4games.net/Features_Display.aspx?id=143

What I can't figure out is why everyone is so critical of these game concerts when really, they're all we have. I don't know how long I've waited for these concerts to travel outside of Japan, and now that the are, everyone just whines and moans about them. Go see them for yourselves, then be the judge!

I was speaking idiomatically.

You can claim it's constructive criticism, but when you've endlessly posted here bashing PLAY! without having even attended a concert. Besides, the criticism about the arrangement was obviously biased for the sake of spin in favour of Eminence (who I'm still convinced you work for, sorry). After all, Nic Raine arranged for the OGC series (his arrangements are featured from that in VGL) and is certainly a competent arranger.

Personally, I think Kairi should be removed from this thread. He/she constantly trolls it and disrupts discussion for everyone else. Something like this related to the VGL thread wouldn't be considered acceptable. Of course, Jason isn't a member here so I guess little impetus to...

Anyway, Arcubalis' words are wise ones. As Tommy said, SUPPORT EVERYBODY.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by datschge

Oh Jesus... <_<

I take it you didn't catch the sarcasm? I was making fun of Kairi for passing his/her opinion of the PLAY! arrangements off as fact.

Arcubalis speaks the truth. His last paragraph, in particular, is something to make good note of.

Most amazing jew boots

I think of Play! as the better event. It is more sophisticated and is more of a traditional orchestral concert. I also, since I'm an arranger and composer, found it to be a learning experience. I got to meet with some of the guests in Detroit, and it really is a great opportunity to meet those in the business. The Play! series is just more professional and I respect that. The arrangements from the tour are great as well, and I agree with Arcubalis that they need to get rid of that screen. It sometimes distracts me because I'm trying to watch the footage, and that keeps me from completely enjoying the music. Play! is a traditional concert with traditional orchestral values, but with a new era of music, and that people, is music from games .

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I won't comment on Eminence's version of MGS due to inability to look at the video. But has anyone heard the version of MGS performed by Play! with Ronny Barak as solo percussionist? His instrument and his unique style of playing adds a lot of flair to Play!'s arrangement and makes it significantly different from the others.

Originally Posted by Arcubalis

What I can't figure out is why everyone is so critical of these game concerts when really, they're all we have. I don't know how long I've waited for these concerts to travel outside of Japan, and now that the are, everyone just whines and moans about them. Go see them for yourselves, then be the judge!

Wise words indeed. Thanks for summing up what I wanted to say.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Oh I dont really like how the thread is spinning off.

All I wanted to comment was that PLAY! is making a lot of money through these events. Easiest thing to find out how is calculate all the reserves and ticket prices, work out their income minus orchestra, venue, PR and other expenses.

Thing which disgusts me is that we make sure our prices are so low, and we often make a huge financial loss which we have in nearly every concert. However, we need to get young people into the halls because that is our aim. PLAY! is a commercial business. I respect that but has my ultimate disrespect when they claim otherwise. If they say they want to spread this music to a lot of people, their ticketing price is putting everyone off. What's this thing about you got to pay to have a few words with the composers, shake their hand and get an autograph? You know, the guests usually don't get paid, and some guests had to pay for their own airfee to PLAY! event? (Previous events, not sure about now)

Their arrangements and stuff, I won't really have much to say except they do unique "artistic" arrangement.

Something for Mr X, you mentioned that a drum kit isnt symphonic. That's true and we don't aim to be just symphonic, it is more on the lines of being acoustic. I don't think our version of the arrangement is in anyway superior to others. This time, we chose an arranger from Japan who did the symphonic game concert in Tokyo with Konami to do our music.

Anyway enough bitching about PLAY!, I really shouldnt be since some people told me it'll make me look unprofessional. I just hope JMP will look back at what he's doing and what he's done, rethink about his influences to the market he is making, and perhaps put in a positive turn. He CAN bring so much positive change to this market.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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Its crap like this that is swaying me to the "not going" crowd despite Akira's appearance.

Its clear you'll use whatever excuse you want to make PLAY look like crap and use that as an excuse NOT to attend.

I am sure in response to that, you'll say "They don't need my help to do that! LOLZ!" For christ sake, why the hell are you so bitchy about PLAY?! Perhaps I'll be the first to say that your comments are getting a wee bit old.

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I mean look at Play!'s version, its a mess cause they seem to wanna replicate a modern rock beat on orchestral percussion, but it sounds like a total mess. I can barely decipher each beat.

That sounds like a personal problem. While I think the ethnic drums are better suited to that specific piece, the rock ensemble is a rather ballsy instrumental choice that simply doesn't work according to your sense of taste...or rather your dislike of PLAY as a whole.

I doubt you've even been to Play.

Originally Posted by -=SeRaPH=-

Their arrangements and stuff, I won't really have much to say except they do unique "artistic" arrangement.

Something for Mr X, you mentioned that a drum kit isnt symphonic. That's true and we don't aim to be just symphonic, it is more on the lines of being acoustic. I don't think our version of the arrangement is in anyway superior to others.

Could've fooled me!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I attended one of the concerts in Stockholm June 2nd and enjoyed it very much. My favorites were the Castlevania medley (Wicked Child! Pipe organ!), Shadow of the Colossus and Dancing Mad. Dancing Mad wasn't perfect, but it was so great to be able to be there when they performed it in this unique arrangement.

About Play charging to meet the composers. Yes, they did that in Chicago last year, but as far as I remember they haven't done it afterwards. For example, everyone was free to meet with and get things signed by Akira Yamaoka, Arnie Roth, Gustaf Grefberg (+ co-composer) and Machinae Supremacy.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Cogo

I attended one of the concerts in Stockholm June 2nd and enjoyed it very much. My favorites were the Castlevania medley (Wicked Child! Pipe organ!), Shadow of the Colossus and Dancing Mad. Dancing Mad wasn't perfect, but it was so great to be able to be there when they performed it in this unique arrangement.

About Play charging to meet the composers. Yes, they did that in Chicago last year, but as far as I remember they haven't done it afterwards. For example, everyone was free to meet with and get things signed by Akira Yamaoka, Arnie Roth, Gustaf Grefberg (+ co-composer) and Machinae Supremacy.

Do you know which song they played from Shadow of the Colossus?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by horseman85

Do you know which song they played from Shadow of the Colossus?

Yes, they played "Epilogue - Those Who Remain". And they performed fantastic. Kow Otani is such a good composer. Although "Epilogue" is one of my favorites I had my hopes for a battle medley, but I guess I have to wait a little bit more for that one. And the way "Epilogue" turned out I couldn't be happier.

Please, ask more questions regarding the concert and I will try to answer as best as I can. I can already now say that I was impressed by the Uematsu piece for Lost Odyssey. Looking forward to the soundtrack.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Linkleton:

The Darkness

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion

Super Mario Bros. Theme

The Legend of Zelda Suite

Castlevania Suite

Theme of Laura

Dancing Mad Part 1 + Dancing Mad Part 2

FELIPE NO

I wont get into the idiotic discussion weither PLAY! sucks or not, since I'm so greatful that it's the only big and official game concert thats ever been in Sweden.

Let's instead talk about the different songs! That's a lot more interesting than hearing opinions about the concerts construction and whatever else that's been discussed so far.

My clear favourite was the Castlevania medley. The arrangement of Vampire Killer and Wicked Child was great, although I have heard it before on the Dracula New Classic CD, but when the third song came I nearly started to cry cuz of the dramatic power of it! I still dont know what song it is, but it was definitely the strongest part of the concert in my opinion, with the sad and desperate song from the choir, the strings and flutes with their fast tempo, the strong drums and of course the pipe organ.
I don't know which effect this suite had on other listeners on the other concerts around the world, but it was definitely this one that made the swedish crowd wake up and praise the concert as we did last year!

How ya doing, buddy?

Best songs: Chrono Cross/Trigger Suite and Oblivion Suite! I really love what they did in the "Watchman's Ease" portion (second half) of the Oblivion Suite. During the violin solo, they used a nipple gong to make the arrangement sound more Asian-inspired than the original piece.

Jam it back in, in the dark.