The Hip Hop/Rap Thread

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

A hot song is hot in all aspects - the beat is stellar, the rhymes are awe-inspiring, and the hook is absolutely infectious - you cannot get it out of your head.

There's a reason why a lot of emcees like MF Doom, Immortal Technique, and others will never see mainstream success: They make music that is almost intentionally dull, drab, and unlistenable to by the average consumer. From the beats to the rhymes to the hook, the songs these artists make are inherently weak.

And while you can fall back upon the 'it's just your opinion', you gotta realize that I'm pretty deeply entrenched in the music industry. I know what the fuck I'm talking about regarding this. It doesn't mean that these artists will have to dumb down their lyrics and make a carbon-copy club track on par with "Laffy Taffy" or "Lean Wit It, Rock Wit It." It does, however, mean that they will have to step up their songwriting game.

For example - take the entire QN5 Music roster: Tonedeff, Pack FM, Cunninlynguists, Session, and a few others.

I know Tone personally and Deacon is one of the reasons I started spitting rhymes in the first place. I've heard unreleased material from these guys that if it ever got the mainstream exposure it would simply blow the fuck up.

But when it comes to putting out an album, what do these guys do? They go completely abstract. Tonedeff sabotages himself by putting out a song like "Politics" out as the first 'single' and wonders why he's 'slept on' by the music industry. Deacon and Kno proceed to release an album that is good, but has nothing that is marketable whatsoever - and despite the critical acclaim they receive, they really have nothing to show for it.

This is exactly what I'm talking about regarding these rappers - they either don't have the ability to create a song that appeals to anything other than a niche market or they refuse to in the name of 'art.'

So no, these guys that are stuck in the underground are going to stay that way because they aren't complete as artists.

See your stuck in the fact that you see rap as a chance to make money and get your voice heard and then payed.

NOW, Rap was ALWAYS meant for self expression, Not expression of how I got head last night. Seriously, Immortal and MF Doom have something to say, There not selling them selves as a product to make money. They're selling them selves as a person. Saying they don't make hot songs becuase they want to touch on a topic is basically saying using an art and using it correctly is wrong.

Your basing your whole opinion on the sole fact of making money, Making money wise YES, Your right about everything your saying. The Essence of Emcee'ing wise your totally wrong. I guess the hip hop world would much rather listen to expressionless getting grillz style of music then actually take time and listen to the song for what it is.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Quote:

You obviously equate Talent with mainstream success

I equate talent based on what sounds good. Most underground music sounds like total garbage.

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You probably one of those cat's who think T.I " King" is the dopest album of 06 so far, don't ya?

Not the dopest, but one of the top three hip-hop albums this year, for sure. Of course, you disagree since you think that anyone who can sell records to a lot of people somehow sucks and is a sell out.

You can throw at me all this nonsense about integrity, but it's all bullshit. You don't have to be a sellout to make music that is marketable.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

I equate talent based on what sounds good. Most underground music sounds like total garbage.

Well, that´s your opinion. Personally I can say that I pretty much only enjoy alternative and "underground" (I don´t really like that term btw) hip-hop. I can´t stand most of the flashy commercial beats and I don´t like what most of the "money-making" rappers are talking about.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

You can throw at me all this nonsense about integrity, but it's all bullshit. You don't have to be a sellout to make music that is marketable.

I agree, saying someone is a "sellout" because his/her music is marketable is pretty much nonsense - no matter what genre of music we are talking about. But you have to actually want to make marketable music as well!

You are talking about bad rhyme and beats in underground hip-hop - well that´s all pretty much subjective - but if, for example, Immortal Technique had the hippest beats and the most marketable rap-style ever, I think there would still be problems with the mass market as his music deals with themes that just don´t work in clubs with da hoes in d4 h0us3..

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

I equate talent based on what sounds good. Most underground music sounds like total garbage.



Not the dopest, but one of the top three hip-hop albums this year, for sure. Of course, you disagree since you think that anyone who can sell records to a lot of people somehow sucks and is a sell out.

You can throw at me all this nonsense about integrity, but it's all bullshit. You don't have to be a sellout to make music that is marketable.

Did i ever mention " selling-out"? No. I Simply stated that if you're main purpose for making music is to inflate your bank account to astronomical proportionals, then you most likely aren't making music for the sole purpose to make music and express yourself; which is definetely true.

I Enjoy music for what it is and not how many albums it sold or money it put into someones pocket, I look for substance in music; something that is extremely lacking in Commercial Rap these days. T.I's " King " i used as an example as the album has only about 4-5 awesome tracks and the rest of it is recycled and rehased garbage.

IF you enter the game with the main purpose of wanting to strike it rich, you should be taken out back, nigga stomped and never be allowed to touch a Mic again. This is the main problem with the game today, the people who are big in the market, they're entire catalogue is simplified beats made for clubs who are attended by people who couldn't differenate a musical note if they're life depended on it and their sole purpose for rapping is making exoborant amounts of money on " booty music ". Rap went from making an artistic statment about the world to taking whitey's money by providing him with a " fictional ghetto life through Cd and simple beats. "

remember, the rap game started on the fact that lyrical delivery was key and beats were only an afterthought, nowadays the reverse is true where beat's are key and lyrical delivery only comes second. The fact that the entire argument on hand is based on petty squabbles about how this rapper sucks because his's beats aren't good on a dance floor. Everyone needs to pull their heads out of their asses espically you NP and remember what Rap/hip-hop roots originated from.

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NP, can you honestly tell me T.I. (and whoever the hell else is making these "hot" tracks) has any lyrical talent at all?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Contracts

NOW, Rap was ALWAYS meant for self expression, Not expression of how I got head last night.

I don't know what you mean by this. I don't think subject matter is really an issue. If someone raps about getting head and they have a good delivery and creative lyrics, who gives a fuck.

I agree about the pathetic state of most popular rap music these days, but at the same time the other side of the argument are often exclusionist assholes. Yes, Kanye is a useless douche. That doesn't mean that all good rap music carries some deeply implanted statement about society. The underground scene needs to lighten up, and the pop/rap combos currently on the airwaves need to focus more on their music and less on the frivolities.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Quote:

NP, can you honestly tell me T.I. (and whoever the hell else is making these "hot" tracks) has any lyrical talent at all?

Yes, of course, what the fuck? T.I. is one of the sickest in the game with it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

T.I. is one of the sickest in the game with it.

Sometimes I wonder if you do this just to spite us or you're actually autistic.

FELIPE NO

See, this is the kind of shit that pisses me off.

Why do I gotta have some kind of sinister motivations or be some kind of retard to think T.I. is one of the best emcees spitting right now?

You don't like T.I., obviously. OH FUCKING WELL. What I eat doesn't make you shit.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

What I eat doesn't make you shit.

Yeah, but since you lack of sense of smell, you can't notice that your shit stank up the joint.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

HAHAHA! This shit is funny. I don't even see a point to even comparing the two anymore. Mainstream has it's own style and appeals to a bigger amount of people. Most people go to clubs and parties to have a good time not to judge people lyrics. If it sounds good and you can dance to it then it's a hit. Simple as that. This very reason it's what makes it such a big money maker.

Underground has it's own style too and although it apeals to a large number of people it's not even even close to the amount of people that listen to mainstream. It has lyrical values as well as creative beats and that's the main focus of it.

I don't even like mainstream...at all...but to say that either is pure shit is ignorant. People listen to what they like and that's all there is to it.

Also this whole crap about HioHop is dead. HipHop isn't dead...it just evolves.
It's evolved into 2 whole different genres from what I can see.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Quote:

Yeah, but since you lack of sense of smell, you can't notice that your shit stank up the joint.

This coming from a person with AESOP ROCK in his signature.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Aesop Rock holds far more integrity as a lyricist and artist than half of the tripe you panhandle for so religiously, so spare me the lobotomy.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Aesop Rock holds far more integrity as an emcee who can chain together sixteen syllable words endlessly and yet say not A GODDAMN THING AT ALL.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

Aesop Rock holds far more integrity as an emcee who can chain together sixteen syllable words endlessly and yet say not A GODDAMN THING AT ALL.

You're so right. This is much better.

Originally Posted by T.I. - What You Know?

Aye..aye..aye..aye..aye..
What you know about that?
What you know about that?
What you know about that?
Aye...
don’t you know I got
key by the three when I chirp shawty chirp back
Louis nap sack
where I hold'n all tha work at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
What you know about that?
I know all about that

Loaded 44s on the low where the cheese at
Fresh off the jet to the Jects where the G’s at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
Hey what you know about that?
Hey I know all about that

See me in ya city sittin pretty kno I'm shining dawg
Ridin wid a couple Latin brawds and a china doll
And you kno how we ball
Aye..
Ridin in shiny cars
Aye..
Walk in designer malls
Aye..
Buy everything we saw
You know about me dogg
Don’t talk about me dogg
And if you doubt me dogg
You better out me dogg
I'm throwed off slightly bro
Don’t wanna fight me bro
I'm fast as lightning bro ya better use ya Nike’s bro
Know you don’t like me cause
Yo bitch most likely does
She see me on them dubs
In front of every club
I be on dro I’m buzzed
Give every ho a hug
Niggaz don’t show me mugs
Cause you don’t know me cuz

Aye...
don’t you know I got
key by the three when I chirp shawty chirp back
Louis nap sack
where I hold'n all tha work at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
What you know about that?
I know all about that

Loaded 44s on the low where the cheese at
Fresh off the jet to the Jects where the G’s at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
Hey what you know about that?
Hey I know all about that

Candy on the '64
Leather guts and fish bowl
50 on the pinky ring just to make my fist glow
Ya bitches get low
Because I get dough
So what? I'm rich ho
I still pull a-kick-do' (kick ya door down)
What you talking shit fo’?
gotta run and hit fo’?
Got you a yellin and I thought you put out a gun hit fo
But you’s a scary dude
Believed by very few
Just keep it very cool
Or we will bury you
See all that attitude’s, unnecessary dude
You never carry tools not even square, he cube
You got these people fooled, who see you on the tube
Whatever try the crew, they’ll see you on the news

Aye...
don’t you know I got
key by the three when I chirp shawty chirp back
Louis nap sack
where I hold'n all tha work at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
What you know about that?
I know all about that

Loaded 44s on the low where the cheese at
Fresh off the jet to the Jects where the G’s at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
Hey what you know about that?
Hey I know all about that

Fresh off the jet to the block
Burn a rubber with a top-pop
I’ll pop and bust a shot and tell em stop and make the block hot
Ya label got got
Cuz you are not hot
I got the top spot
And it will not stop
A video or not that will bust it to the glock stop
Drag ya out that Bentley Coupe and take it to the chop shop
Partner, we got ya'll
If it may pop off
I’ll answer the question “Will I get ya block knocked off?”
And what it is bro
Look I'll kill ya, bro
I’m in your hood, if you a gangsta what you hid for?
Somebody better get bro for he get sent for
You say you wanna squash it what you still talkin shit for?

Aye...
don’t you know I got
key by the three when I chirp shawty chirp back
Louis nap sack
where I hold'n all tha work at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
What you know about that?
I know all about that

Loaded 44s on the low where the cheese at
Fresh off the jet to the Jects where the G’s at

What you know about that?
What you know about that?
Hey what you know about that?
Hey I know all about that

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Thanks for making my eyes bleed, Capo. Those lyrics were brilliant!

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

Aesop Rock holds far more integrity as an emcee who can chain together sixteen syllable words endlessly and yet say not A GODDAMN THING AT ALL.

Weapon has a valid point, Everyone likes there own music.

BUT to say Aesop is pointless shows that you don't understand his lyrics. I just read the qoute in the sig and I have to say it's quite a feat among lyricists:

Quote:

"Just a little bruised in the back of the pews
Acting amused with a mask on them Vatican blues.
For in the eyes of the organization I was raised in
Aes is just another sinning brick in hell's basement."

That right there is COMPLEX as fuck, That Makes T.I. look like a down syndrome baby. BUT like Weapon said everyone has there own style of music, But to say Aesop Rock is pointless shows you don't understand what he's saying.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Capo, is that seriously a song? I'm scared to even listen to it...

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You guys got some serious hate in your blood. Granted, "What You Know" isn't the most lyrical song in existence, that track is a bonafide banger.

Quote:

BUT to say Aesop is pointless shows that you don't understand his lyrics.

Oh, I understand his lyrics just fine - they're just so needlessly abstract that I don't find them enjoyable to listen to.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

Oh, I understand his lyrics just fine - they're just so needlessly abstract that I don't find them enjoyable to listen to.

You see, your ability to absorb the lyrics is directly proportional to understand why they're so abstract. If you don't find them enjoyable to listen to on THAT premise, then there's a fatal flaw in your personality.

Now, if I may be allowed a small nod to Aesop with a lyrical pun:

Originally Posted by Aesop Rock

The roof is on fire where snoopy sits right now.
You should have shot yourself in the foot when it was in your mouth.

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You see, your ability to absorb the lyrics is directly proportional to understand why they're so abstract. If you don't find them enjoyable to listen to on THAT premise, then there's a fatal flaw in your personality.

You got me fucked up, kid. I don't like people who spit lyrics like that. I hear them, I understand them, but I don't find it particularly enjoyable. T.I. could spit the same shit and I'd be like "....This nigga is trippin'..."

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

T.I. could spit the same shit and I'd be like "....This nigga is trippin'..."

Somehow I get the feeling that your homeslice lacks the opposable thumbs to write lyrics like Aesop, but whatever.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Dawg, you're crazy. T.I. shits on Aesop as a lyricist.

How ya doing, buddy?

OK OK. My logic revealed its flaws with that final piercing statement. You win. Here's a platinum grill for you.



WEAR IT PROUDLY.

FELIPE NO

I don't like grills very much, actually.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?