24 Season 5 Discussion

Originally Posted by xman25

I thought Buchanan went in to the room with everyone else last week. This week he was in his office. I guess I missed something last week.

xman25

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
And why didn't Lynn try breathing through the cloth he had?
It's not gonna save him but it's better than breathing without it.
And I think Tony is dead. His last words make it seem as if he's giving up since his wife isn't alive anymore; it's more dramatic that way.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Where was Curtis?

I love this spoiler button:

Since Robocop (Henderson) is doing his escape, will Kim bite the dust now? She and Barry couldn't have left CTU THAT quickly.

Please kill Barry too.

I don't think Tony is dead. He deserved a silent clock. I understand last week was dedicated to Edgar and 40% of the CTU staff but Tony is just as important. He's a Cubs fan for crying out loud LOL.

Yeah Jack was crying but Tony will pull a Jack-like revival. Except he will be revived by Aerit...er, Michelle's Holy Spell...

The day 24 jumps the shark is when Aaron Pierce joins a terrorist group. Or when Logan gets re-elected. Or when Chloe is on the field with Jack, AK-47 in hand.

Actually, 24 will get the highest ratings ever if the latter was true

DON'T FORGET THE CHINESE

FELIPE NO

Kim is suppose to get out of the city, but I can't shake the feeling that something crazy is going to happen to her. Crazy plot and Kim go hand in hand.

xman25

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by jouhou

And why didn't Lynn try breathing through the cloth he had?
It's not gonna save him but it's better than breathing without it.

Are you really this stupid.

It's nerve gas, not cat poo smell.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Crap. He really is dead

Spoilers for other shows too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/14/ar...pc&oref=slogin

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Wow, there seems to be a trend picking up. Kill off a key character each episode.

Lynn's death was kinda expected, clearly done to redeem himself. Then Tony, who I assume is done for, he's got no reason to live anymore. Man, Henderson is really devious. Ah, then there's Logan, who's pretty much done after this season.

BTW, what was the section/department that's going in to take over CTU's operation? I didn't really catch the name.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Hantei

BTW, what was the section/department that's going in to take over CTU's operation? I didn't really catch the name.

Department of Homeland Security. It's what Bush set up after 9/11, remember?

I can forgive you because you're Canadian.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

A few pages back Rollins talked a little about CTU getting attacked again. I've done some thinking on it and it makes no sense that CTU got attacked during this season. It made sense during sense during season two because the bad guys knew that CTU would be a big problem for them all day long so they took action. They obviously planned and prepared their attack many months in advance. It seems to me that the bad guys for this season planned on dealing with CTU for a couple of hours (airport) and then never think about them again because they were going to leave America and go bother Russia. So, there would be no reason for them to plan in advance an elaborate attack on CTU. I think that the attack that they did on CTU would have taken a few months to plan and prepare for. They put it together in an hour or two. How would they know that Lynn would end up at CTU-Los Angeles? How did they know about Lynn's sister and her boyfriend? Did the bad guys call them or vice versa? I don't know. Hopefully someone smarter than me can explain the whole damn thing. Maybe I missed something.

xman25

I was speaking idiomatically.

Sense and logic hold no sway in California.

Originally Posted by JazzFlight

24 can't jump the shark. Jack Bauer ate the shark long ago. Now 24 can only jump the water, and that doesn't mean anything.

QFT.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by JazzFlight

Are you really this stupid.

It's nerve gas, not cat poo smell.

Haha excellent. I sense a Season 6 storyline involving some sick cats.

Another good episode, I seriously could not see Tony dying, despite all my experience watching 24. I kept calling for Kim's death though, but it looks like I picked the wrong Season 1 star.

But seriously, he was probably easier to write out of the storyline than Kim was actually. He lost his wife, who we all know means a lot to him. I'm not just saying that for kicks, Tony committed treason for his wife. I'm surprised that he wasn't able to kill Henderson if anything. But if Tony happened to stay alive, he would just probably live out his days as a depressing, moping person who would contribute nothing except his eventual suicide. Great character, but he had nothing left to live for.

Good for Chloe for reverting to her sarcastic state oh so quickly. It just wouldn't be the same.

And I think any part of "How Jack Bauer are you" test should be if you can hold your breath as long as he could in the episode. If not, you're no Jack Bauer. (Take that useless internet surveys)

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Originally Posted by Rollins

And I think any part of "How Jack Bauer are you" test should be if you can hold your breath as long as he could in the episode. If not, you're no Jack Bauer. (Take that useless internet surveys)

Haha. When that part of the episode happened, me and my roommate held our breath as well. Needless to say, we failed miserably, lasting probably less than 20% of how long Jack held it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Note: I am downloading the episode right now specifically for the purpose of re-watching Tony's death scene. I may change my mind after reviewing the scene but I doubt it.

Tony’s death:
I hated it but unlike most my problem is in the fine details of the scene. Like they say it is “the little things that count”.

First I agree with jazz: Tony should having had a silent clock. I can understand only wanting one per seasons but they already ruined that by using it twice for Mason in season 2.

Secondly, After thinking about I have discovered that the quality of the scene increases greatly if I pretend the word coma was never used. Really it was only one word but it hurt the believability of the scene considerably. One moment he is completely totally out, no hope of wacking up, gone; three seconds latter he is a spiriting out of ctu. Now 24 had some ridicules moments (such as Nina taking out an infirmary and nearly escaping ctu with a severed artery), I could suspended my disbelief then because it was necessary for the scene to work, but here the wording and tone was just a needless hyperbole that:
1) not only decrease believability, but also
2) reduces the impact of Tony not killing the guy. If he was out as bad as they implied he would be useless for questioning and be as good as dead for ctu. Sure there still symbolic impact there but still not a strong as Tony’s choice having real impact on the investigations. If his conditions was ambiguous it would increased the drama considerably.
3) I felt Marwan (sp?) in season 4 was too much of a super villain, and that the writers were lossing there touch for writing good villains. Guy waking up from coma (even if it was just a really good act) feels like they aren’t even trying any more.

Thirdly, there wasn’t enough subtext to Tony’s death. I would like too think that the real reasons that Tony lost was because he didn’t have the will to live with out Michelle, not that he was real not overpowered. (especially sense he had the advantage he was on top and had better leverage, we can assume that everything else is pretty much equal both are highly trained but in a weakened states one injured, one drugged up and tortured.). There was a bit of it there but not enough, too me Tony was overpowered but did not care, still dramatic but not as good as him just completly giving up. Part of this goes back too my above problem with the poor writing, if you can accept a guy waking up from a coma like he did overpowering Tony should be easy by comparison, if the scene was better written this problem would have likely corrected it self.
Also, this is a good time too note I don’t mind Tony died such un-noble and frankly pitiful death it adds to the tragedy of his charter and his last day on earth what I hate is the horrible execution of it.

Lastly, they ended it to quickly it needed just a little bit more time to let it sinki in. In fact just adding the silent clock would have been sufficient for me. Obviously this a minor compliant but a complaint none the less.

So in short Tony’s death as shown to us last night: 4/10 Had they made a few simple minor changes it could have easily been a 9 or a 10. As for the rest of the epp. Solid 24 8.5/10 great music!. I can’t give the episode an overall rating Tony death and the rest of the epp feel like too different shows.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I can definately see your points.

I loved the music in this episode, though. The last 15 seconds of the episode, where Jack is completely losing it and hugging Tony with this tragic, slightly choral music playing, is one of my most memorable scenes from the series.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I think the thing you need to ask yourself is if Jack could have done all that, Dan. If Jack could have, then it seems possible that Robocop could have, as well (since he knows all the tricks of the trade).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It's just stupid that CTU keeps the gas masks and Atropine in separate locations, neither of which is inside the safe zones. Government effeciency for you.

Personally, I've never been that attached to Tony, so I don't really care that he died. Edgar was easier to relate to, and his death was more tragic because he died as a result of trying to do something good (checking up on the missing woman).

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

^ This must be your first (or second, from Season 4) season. If someone pieced together a video highlighting Tony's life, you'll have a sudden change of..."heart." Yes, yes I'm a bastard

I'm beginning to think that this season has the best music ever. The cheesy heroic music that was playing when Lynn went to shut down that program was funny, yet catchy and appropriate.

Sean Astin is a great actor too. One fatass can't even die convincingly and the other does it dramatic as hell.

PROOF:



I was speaking idiomatically.

Why is every episode a season finale episode for other shows. I mean come on brilliant episodes every week for like 5 years. CRAZZZy.

Silent clock should have been used if he is really dead, which he probably is. It was necessary and they failed on that. You can't have such a beloved character and such a badass (not jack level, but still) and not use the clock after what he has gone through throughout the 5 seasons. I kind of wish he makes it though, but I can see why they did it. This just gives Jack more motive to fucking kick ass because of the loss of all of his TRUE friends in the same day. Palmer, Michelle and now Tony. Tony and Jack were much closer then the former two as seen by Jack losing it like he did at the end of Season 3 cutting off Chase' arm.

Another Emmy/GG nom for kiefer next year no doubt about it. Probably win too. Also this season has been probably the best since season 1 and 2. 4 was a joke, still better then anything on TV, but not comparable.

And I can't believe that Kim is just leaving.

Also, PlutoKnight mentined

Spoiler:

something about Curtis dying

with the spoiler tag, but everyone was using it when it was not necessary to discuss the latest ep. Do not ever EVER do this again because I don't want to READ ANYHING NO MATTER HOW VAGUE IT IS THAT RELATES TO LATER EPS. I know you used spoiler tags, but use them correctly please, so other people can read others thoughts with hesistancy. I hope that came out clear.

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Originally Posted by JazzFlight

Are you really this stupid.

It's nerve gas, not cat poo smell.

If you think I'm stupid then I guess you wouldn't do anything to try to survive if your were in that situation.
If you had to choose between cloth or no cloth, you're saying you'd choose no cloth.
Everyone knows that trying anything is better than trying nothing even if you know it's useless. That concept is called Hope.
Furthermore, Lynn's room had the least concentration of nerve gas and the air conditioning system was turned on right away. It might not be much but it still adds a bit to the chance and hope of survival.

Originally Posted by AC1

Where was Curtis?

He still hasn't returned from the Hospital incident.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by jouhou

If you had to choose between cloth or no cloth, you're saying you'd choose no cloth.

No, what he's is saying (and what actually makes sense) is that it would make no difference either way, so what's the point? You could use the cloth, put your hand over your mouth and nose, bury your face inside your crotch, but either way you would still die.

And another thing about Tony that didn't make sense, why not just shoot him? He had to know that either way (shooting him or injecting him with that stuff) would make him look guilty, so why not just go with the more surefire method? It seems like that would have been more satisfying as well instead of just injecting him with some drugs.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I was really wondering about Curtis. Didn't they say early in the episode that he'd get there in a half hour? So why didn't he arrive?

So Tony's dead. Wow. That was a rather disappointing way for him to go, especially since it isn't terribly clear that he did die.

I can't wait for those Homeland Security people get there and everyone still left from CTU get as mad as a March hare and demand to keep working. Hell, I expect Jack to shew that lady out quite harshly and possibly refuse to work for her. But, then again, maybe Homeland Security won't enact their plan until the place is cleaned up.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

He didn't arrive because he did not want to die.

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"Clearly," Tony is dead.

But realize: Jack Bauer rose from the dead twice. That's one more than Jesus Fucking Christ. You gotta give it to a beast like Tony the ability to rise from the dead once. Come on.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

No, what he's is saying (and what actually makes sense) is that it would make no difference either way, so what's the point? You could use the cloth, put your hand over your mouth and nose, bury your face inside your crotch, but either way you would still die.

And another thing about Tony that didn't make sense, why not just shoot him? He had to know that either way (shooting him or injecting him with that stuff) would make him look guilty, so why not just go with the more surefire method? It seems like that would have been more satisfying as well instead of just injecting him with some drugs.

You're saying it's hopelessness, to just giving up, surrendering, it's not worth it??
When is struggling to live ever not worth your efforts?
Would you really surrender your life so willingly?
Would you rather lay down your weapon and inevitably die? or inevitably die fighting? What kind of person do you choose to be/live as?
Before this digresses any further, I'm simply saying Lynn should have tried even harder at staying alive even if death was inevitable. But this IS JUST a show and that's the way the producers wanted him to die and in a honorable way.

Originally Posted by Bahamut Zero

He didn't arrive because he did not want to die.

XD

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by jouhou

You're saying it's hopelessness, to just giving up, surrendering, it's not worth it??
When is struggling to live ever not worth your efforts?
Would you really surrender your life so willingly?
Would you rather lay down your weapon and inevitably die? or inevitably die fighting? What kind of person do you choose to be/live as?
Before this digresses any further, I'm simply saying Lynn should have tried even harder at staying alive even if death was inevitable. But this IS JUST a show and that's the way the producers wanted him to die and in a honorable way.

You still don't get it. It's like choosing to die by getting shot or die by getting stabbed. The point is, either way you're gonna die. Hope has nothing to do with it. What good is a cloth (which is full of holes, I might add) gonna do compared to a whole bunch of nerve gas?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

You still don't get it. It's like choosing to die by getting shot or die by getting stabbed. The point is, either way you're gonna die. Hope has nothing to do with it. What good is a cloth (which is full of holes, I might add) gonna do compared to a whole bunch of nerve gas?

uh no, you're not understanding what I'm saying or ignoring what I'm saying.
I used the example, "give up and die, or die trying" so I clearly understand that he's going to die.
Hope is all in the brain and the brain controls the body so my emphasis on hope is don't give it up.
No, the cloth CANNOT save you but Lynn seemed to last longer with it than the guard without it so would you discard all hope of the cloth?
We're talking about mental state now, keep that in mind.
The best way to look at this is put yourself in their shoes.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?