[Manga] Civil War Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Acro-nym

Re-write their history? I suppose you could call it that. I mainly just want them to get back to telling good stories without changing the powers, history, or dynamic of the main character(s). And maybe my assumptions about this new arc will be proven false when it comes out. I've really no way to know.

...

Originally Posted by Zip

well you know, after this many years it's getting kinda hard to tell a good story without like doing something new :/, which this whole civil war thing is doing, brining new juice to the juicer.

QFT.

They've done just about everything they could with Spidey prior to the unveiling of his SI. Now there are a TON of new stories that they can tell because of that. It's going to be exciting.

Also - the Omega Flight guy is US Agent? Damn. I thought that might be the case on the train coming home today. Hmm, if it is, then my theory of Cap dying in CW 4 might still prove to be true. Awesome.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

You can't kill Captain America, man. He's an American icon! That's crazy talk. That's like DC killing Superman!

... wait.

FELIPE NO

And don't forget, nobody really DIES in comic books. They just disappear for a few years before the writers come up with an excuse to bring them back so that they can increase sales.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Except for Thunderbird, Magik, important origin characters, Captain Marvel I, Toro, and various villains. Hmm, DC seems to lack people in this category...

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Give it time Acro, those guys will all come back. I mean, look, they said that Bucky, Uncle Ben and Jason Todd would never come back. Bucky came back as an angsty soldier, I heard that Ben was brought back in a horrible fashion and Jason Todd got turned into an Octopus monster that eats villains!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Ben hasn't really ever been brought back, though there is an alternate reality one apparently running around in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man and he was briefly brought to the future to converse with Peter just before he died.

I'm thinking this should be moved to the "Everything Else" thread.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Acro-nym

Ben hasn't really ever been brought back, though there is an alternate reality one apparently running around in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man and he was briefly brought to the future to converse with Peter just before he died.

I thought they hadn't killed him off yet in FNSM. If I remember correctly

Spoiler:

Spider-Man from 2211 went to take Ben back to their timeline/dimention, Ben killed him saying that decided to stay a while. Then there was the other Ben that died too, the homeless bum in the alley. If I remembered correctly he was the one that gave Ben the gun and choice.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The second Ben I was referencing was in the Happy Birthday storyline in Amazing.

How ya doing, buddy?

Just went through the Civil-War Files. Stark lists The Sentry as confirmed pro-reg. Anyone else know anything?? If its true then logically, with Sentry's powers, the War is already over for Cap and his supporters. Unless of course Marvel brings in Cosmic entities (already hinted with The Grandmaster's introduction)... But, in my opinion, that would be kind of stupid in an story-line like Civil War...

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

What's Thor listed as? He's one of the few Marvel people that would be able to stand up to the Sentry.

FELIPE NO

Thor is listed as "Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D."

I can't remember anything from the books about Thor being on SHEILD's side? First you see him grabbing his hammer (in FF 538), and the next he's fighting anti-reg heroes (Civil War 3). What happened, Marvel?

also they made a new checklist for the Civil War books:



What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by vemp

I can't remember anything from the books about Thor being on SHEILD's side? First you see him grabbing his hammer (in FF 538), and the next he's fighting anti-reg heroes (Civil War 3). What happened, Marvel?

In Civil War #3, Hill mentions Codename: Lightning, an agent, twice. A few panels after the second reference, Thor appears. Coincidence?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Acro-nym

In Civil War #3, Hill mentions Codename: Lightning, an agent, twice. A few panels after the second reference, Thor appears. Coincidence?

Don't think so...

If Thor's confirmed as confirmed Pro-reg, (although like Hercules, l can't see how that can actually happen - considering he is a God, I thought he'd stay away like Namor) it would explain the rumors of Beta Ray joining up with Cap. But then since these happen post-Ragnarok, Thor is now blessed with the OdinForce. So that effectively means the Anti reg heroes actually have to face both Thor with the Odinforce and The Sentry... Won't be much of a battle unless Marvel introduces a deus ex machina...

What's next: Surfer? Thanos? Celestials? :biggrin:

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Thor doesn't have the Odinforce anymore, as near as I can tell. He neither looks as he did with it, nor is he blind anymore.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

No, Thanos is busy helping the Annihilation wave.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

There seems to be a gap between the FF issue and his sudden appearance in CW#3... HURM.

They'll probably introduce Hawkeye and the pro-reg heroes will all die from anaphylactic shock.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Acro-nym

Thor doesn't have the Odinforce anymore, as near as I can tell. He neither looks as he did with it, nor is he blind anymore.

Agreed. But how will they just make Ragnarok disappear? Coz Thor's hammer came to earth because of Ragnarok. I distinctly remember Doom saying in hell ...Ragnarok...The death of the Nordic Gods... along with a editor's note that said As seen in Thor 80-85, just in case you thought that we were making this stuff up... (FF #537)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't believe they will ignore Ragnarok. In fact, we may get more explanation once Thor's mag returns (as written by JMS). As of now, though, his character and actions seem a bit considering how he was at the end of Ragnarok. Maybe he has already recreated Asgard and its champions, only coming to Earth to retreive his hammer. There are too many questions. Hopefully, Millar will provide some answers.

FELIPE NO

A Civil War article from newsrama.com:


CRISTOS GAGE ON CASUALTIES OF WAR: IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA

As the Civil War rages on in the Marvel Universe, the smaller stories are getting their chance to be heard as well. As previously announced, Marvel will be releasing a series of specials during the (albeit extended) Civil War run, that will focus on characters, and otherwise expand elements from the main miniseries.

Case in point, December’s Casualties of War: Iron Man/Captain America, written by Cristos Gage. It’s the writer’s latest in a growing collection of Marvel work, and though he’s working in Captain America’s universe, writing the imminent Union Jack miniseries, Gage credits his relationship with editor Andy Schmidt for landing him the gig.

“When it became clear that Civil War was going to have to be delayed, Marvel saw the opportunity to flesh out the story with some specials,” Gage said. “The Iron Man/Cap Special would be edited by Andy. He needed a writer who was both fast (given the short notice) and knowledgeable about the history of Captain America and Iron Man. He knew I was fast because I routinely get my scripts in ahead of deadline, and he'd liked my work on Union Jack, which showed some familiarity with Cap history, so he called me up and asked what I thought of Cap and Iron Man's respective positions in Civil War. I said, ‘Well, it makes perfect sense to me, because in issue X, such-and-such happened, and we know Iron Man would feel this way because of Y,’ and I rattled off a whole bunch of incidents from both their titles going back to the Silver Age. I think that confirmed two things - that I had the job, and that my geekiness knows no bounds.”

As for where the project came from – Gage freely admits that the one-shot was something that Marvel offered him, but in regards to its true origin?

“This was a case of Marvel listening to the fans and responding,” Gage explained. There had been readers asking for clarification about why Cap and Iron Man have taken the stances they have, what makes them feel so strongly about it, and why two men who have been allies for so long would let things get to this point without finding a way to work it out. The sheer breakneck pace of Civil War has precluded an in-depth examination of these issues, so I was asked to come up with a story that would clarify matters.

“Obviously, I had to do it without messing up the larger storyline that had already been planned out, but aside from that I wasn't told ‘this is off limits.’ It was a matter of finding the right kind of story. I thought about it and said to Andy, ‘You know the diner scene from Heat?’ He replied, ‘You did not just ask me if I know the diner scene from Heat,’ like I'd just inquired if he knew who Jack Kirby was or something similarly insulting. That started the ball rolling.”

As that ball rolled, Gage came up with something that wasn’t shown in the main miniseries, something that some readers may see as a missing piece. “It's about Cap and Iron Man's secret meeting in the midst of Civil War, in the ruins of Avengers Mansion, under a flag of truce to see if they can work things out man to man,” Gage said. “If you'll recall Civil War #1, they've never really spoken to each other about this - while Iron Man was addressing the gathered heroes, Cap was on the Helicarrier fighting his way through an army of SHIELD agents. So this is the first time since it all started that they've met one on one, out of respect for their many years as friends and allies, to talk it out. We'll reference incidents from Marvel history to show why each man feels as strongly as he does, and each will have to defend his position as he tries to convince the other to rethink his own. But this isn't Meet the Press…given what's happened already, there's the constant and very real threat that it will come to blows. I don't want to give away too much, but whatever happens, readers should come away with a clearer view of why Captain America and Iron Man feel the way they do, and why the situation has reached the point it has.”

Joining Gage on the one-shot is artist Jeremy (Leading Man, Battle Hymn) Haun, and cover-artist Jimmy Cheung.

“Jeremy’s got a great feel for both Cap and Iron Man; I think anyone who isn't familiar with his stuff will really be impressed,” Gage said. His style is perfect for the book - he's great at conveying emotion, which we absolutely needed, but at the same time his heroes are iconic looking, which is key because he's being asked to draw some classic scenes from Marvel's past…which would intimidate some folks - like me, if I could draw, but just fills Jeremy with enthusiasm. He's really pumped for this, and it shows in the work. And as for that cover…need I say more? He's the man. Jimmy’s drawn both Cap and Iron Man before and is right up there with any of the greats who have rendered them over the years. I'll tell you what, getting to write such a momentous story in the history of two of my favorite childhood characters would be thrilling enough, but every time I look at these guys' art, it's official: I am in fanboy heaven.”

Having had to stick himself into the headspace of the two opposing sides’ biggest proponents, what side does Gage himself come down on in regards to Super Hero Registration?

“I'm kind of on the fence,” the writer confessed. “I think it was Dan Slott who said this, and I agree: as a Marvel Comics fan, I'm opposed to the Registration Act, but if I actually had to live in the Marvel Universe, I'd be for it. I definitely see both sides. Captain America is my favorite Marvel hero, so if anything, I've grown more sympathetic to Iron Man's position because, while my knee-jerk reaction is with Cap, I've had to really think about exactly where Tony's coming from, and it makes a lot of sense. I don't think he's power-hungry or unfeeling or some of the other things I've seen said online. Sure, he's got his issues, but so does Cap, and I think they're both trying to do what they believe is best. If I only accomplish one thing with this story, I'd like for it to be that the people saying ‘Iron Man's a jerk’ - and worse - come away with an understanding of why he's doing this. Not that they necessarily agree with or endorse his position, but that they understand it…because I definitely do.”

Gage admitted that, in being a fan of the Captain America character, it was at times, something of a struggle to believably get Iron Man’s point across, though he feels he did get it, in the end.

“In writing both characters, I always tried to put myself in their shoes,” Gage said. “In rewrites, I'd go through the script from Iron Man's perspective, then from Cap's, then back again. I never wanted to favor one character or, worse yet, force my own views on the story. I wanted everything to come out of who these men have been established as being over 40 - or, in Cap's case, 65 - years of history. To shoehorn in my own agenda, whether it be ‘I'm liberal,’ ‘I'm conservative,’ or ‘I always wanted to write Cap and Iron Man breakdance-fighting,’ would be horrible. When I was writing the Deadshot miniseries for DC, at least one reader posted a message online making it clear he believed - without attacking me for it or anything - that I was a right-wing gun enthusiast, when in fact I've never fired anything higher caliber than a BB. I loved that, because it meant the character was coming through, not the writer.”

Back to speaking as a fan, how does Gage see the relationship between the two characters at the end of Civil War? Well, though a kiss and make-up ending isn’t in the cards for anyone, Gage said he hopes that a reconciliation between the two heroes is a possiblility, at least at some point in the future.

“It's not easy seeing them at odds; it's like your parents fighting, you know? The whole time I was working on the story, part of me kept wanting to write the scene where they resolve everything, hug it out, and say ‘Come on, old buddy, let's grab a root beer and go fight the Absorbing Man.’ The way superhero conflicts used to be worked out in the old days: meet, fight, team up, we're cool. But life isn't that simple, and neither is Civil War. I suspect it's going to take more than an appearance on the Dr. Phil show to get past this.”
-----------------

xman25

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Marvel made a Civil War trailer, it's pretty cool.

Quote:

Civil War is Back with a Trailer!

At long last, the divided heroes resume their bitter battle in Civil War #4, on sale tomorrow! Catch up on all the action with this exclusive Marvel.com trailer produced by Motherland.us!

This blockbusting battle is taking the Marvel Universe by storm, and for those of you living in Latveria and have somehow missed it, here's a quick refresher course to go along with the heart-pumping trailer.

In an attempt to boost ratings for their reality television show, four young heroes confront a group of villains hiding out in a home in Stamford, Connecticut. One of the villains, Nitro, escapes into the surrounding neighborhood. Refusing to be captured, Nitro unleashes his power and incinerates a nearby elementary school—killing hundreds of innocent children.

In the wake of this disaster, the public is outraged. A Superhuman Registration Act is passed by Congress, and now all those possessing paranormal abilities are required to register with the government.

Reaction among the heroes is split down the middle, with an AWOL Captain America on one side and a pro-registration Iron Man on the other. The line has been drawn.

As heroes all over the country are being arrested for refusing to register, Spider-Man makes a bold move and unmasks in front of the whole world on television demonstrating his allegiance with the Act.

In the mist of all this media chaos and guerilla warfare, Iron Man reaches out to Captain America and his resistance team wanting to compromise. Both teams meet at a disclosed location to talk. Sharp tongues turn to sharper blows, and a battle erupts. Suddenly there is pause as a bolt of lighting comes crashing down from the heavens. When the dust settles, a long lost Thor stands in front of them, wielding his hammer.

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.638

Makes me wonder if they're gonna consider making the whole series into a digital comic and put it on a medium of sorts.

How ya doing, buddy?

Can somebody upload Civil War #4 as soon as they download? In a .zip containing the image files if possible as I'll be at school for the majority of the day and I won't have access to CDisplay. I think that they have IRfanviewer installed, but I don't know if that can open .cbz or .cbr.

Thanks.

Is anybody else REALLY anticipating this?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I am.

SO FUCKING LATE MARVEL. WTF.

How ya doing, buddy?

A review of Civil War #4 from comicbookresources.com. It's spoiler free:

Tuesday September 19, 2006

CIVIL WAR #4 ADVANCE REVIEW

It's getting tougher and tougher to write these previews without spoilers. The good news is that the big shocking surprises in this issue haven't been well spoiled by leading covers and tie-in issues, like they were with the grand Spidey unmasking in the second issue. There are a few moments in this book that came out of left field in a good way for me.

Basically, Thor is back and he's pissed. Why? How? Well, you'll have to read the book, but Mark Millar does provide a satisfactory and somewhat scary answer to both questions, while leading the reader in the direction that the next events might follow. The big fight in the beginning of this issue truly feels monumental and epic, even if it doesn't last as long as you might think. There are real consequences from this Big Superhero Fight scene, which is definitely nice to see.

Also nice to see are all the pieces of the puzzle coming together. Unlike with previous issues, I don't think you need to read the tie-in issues to get what's going on here. I think the developments in this plot have been set up nicely from within the three previous issues. Again, I don't want to spoil you on the developments or even lead you in their direction. For now, you'll just have to take my word that they're consistent with the series so far, and pay off on some previous scenes in a satisfying way.

There is a dramatic shift to the status quo of one corner of the Marvel Universe in this book, but I have a hard time buying into it completely. It's the kind of thing that can be reversed in a heartbeat -- or, at least, in one well-written issue of the main Marvel title. Peter Parker taking off the mask would require a cosmic event or a deus ex machina to reverse. This particular event would not require nearly as much work to undo.

Steve McNiven's artwork is brilliant in this issue. I'm not kidding here -- there's a range of storytelling talent on display here in one single issue that's not often seen in a typical superhero comic. He draws the heck out of the big battle scene complete with wide panels, bloodied superheroes, and a downpour of rain. But he excels in the moments afterwards, where characters often look confused, frightened, or quietly scary. The illustrations do as much to tell the story as Millar's word balloons. The body language of these characters looks unsure, not typically superheroic. There's a fair bit of moping happening in the issue, but it's well-deserved and contemplative.

Morry Hollowell's coloring is vibrant throughout the book, and I just hope it translates well into the printed page. The PDF preview I have is bright and energetic and detailed. Paper usually soaks up too much of it to convey the same feel, but I'll cross my fingers on this one.

While I don't think this particular issue will have the large outcry and conversational quotient that the second one did, I think there's enough in here to keep fans buzzing. I think there might even be a political aspect that some will gripe about. And I'm very curious to see some of the fallout from this book in a couple of the other main Marvel Universe series. The final few pages should result in major status quo changes in two different series, in particular.

I had a shaky moment with the series last issue, but I'm back on board again with this one.
--------------

xman25

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Ah, Lying in the Gutters.

Here are some Civil War #4 previews (with some repeat):
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/C...lWar04Pre.html
http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=40275

I was speaking idiomatically.

Wow. Thor is badass in those previews. This issue is going to be crazy.

How ya doing, buddy?