Saddam Hussein to receive death penalty

Originally Posted by SlightlyOddGuy

According to Wikipedia, he actually had been executed. But that's Wikipedia. You never know.

News sorces over here have pritty much marked the time of exicution as 6am local time, wether that meens GMT or whatever Iraq uses isn't exactly clear , as is stanard for the Beep.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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I seem to recall "Thou shalt not kill" having a lot of exemptions made to it, especially if it's in the name of God, like the Crusades.

Or in the Mosaic Law... Which condemned people to death for things like murder, rape, etc... So that "Thou shall not kill" thing doesn't work. Whatever the case, people, don't try to pull out Bible verses out of context and expect them to fly very far.

FELIPE NO

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That's your point of view, to think what I am saying is torture. My point is death is not the answer to anything, and it won't bring back anyone, and it won't solve anything. Do you think his death will make the insurgents go "You know what, they're right...lets bring out our white flags and surrender." No, you kill one saddam, ten more show up. It's a cycle of violence and pain, that will never end, unless someone acts big and ends it. That 'someone' being them or us [The West]. And like i've said, being exhiled from society is something that would be good for everyone. He would be punished for his actions, and basically...thinking about what he did, until he dies naturally. Kinda like permanent Time Out if you will.

That's that bullshit.

Whether you lock Saddam away for the rest of his life or kill him, the end result is the same. Might as well go with the speedy execution and be done with him. We're dealing with the kind of people who don't react well to 'someone acting big and ending it.' They only respect overwhelming strength.

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Because I don't believe that death is justice, but more like a archaic form of personal vengance on a subminal level. You gain nothing by killing another life. And if you're a christian...holy shit, you commited one of the top ten sins, no matter how much your actions were sincere and 'good for the rest of the world'. I'm not as christian as I used to be, but I think some of those ten laws [the big one being 'thou shall not kill'] should be something the west should embrace.

On the contrary, death is the ultimate justice. You lose your life, which you can never regain. And "Thou Shalt Not Kill", if you look at the proper context, is actually 'Thou Shalt Not Murder." And yes, there is a difference.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I'm not going to get into a big argument about this here, but show me how Capital Punishment is not really just a long, drawn out premeditated murder done with the approval of the government? There's nothing about it that isn't murder, as it is in no way preemptive. How do you justify that? Keep in mind, unless you kill livestock everyweek to cleanse your sins, don't bother bringing up the Old Testament.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Somewhat graphic..

Spoiler:

I still want to see the vid though.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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I seem to recall "Thou shalt not kill" having a lot of exemptions made to it, especially if it's in the name of God, like the Crusades.

Yes, and that was horrible. I think both religions should be ashamed of that tragedy, but that's just me. Its sad when Religion makes exceptions to certain things, because from a religious standpoint, you can't stay on the fence.

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That's that bullshit.

Whether you lock Saddam away for the rest of his life or kill him, the end result is the same. Might as well go with the speedy execution and be done with him. We're dealing with the kind of people who don't react well to 'someone acting big and ending it.' They only respect overwhelming strength.

What does that sentence mean? Who's the 'people'? The Arabs? So a speedy death is good and fast....again who are you to say what dies? No one here I think is in that position. BTW what is YOUR political standpoint, because I think political preference has something to do with this topic, especially the way it's going now.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

You know exactly who the people I'm talking about are - Islamic fundamentalists.

And I'm a conservative when it comes to foreign policy if you must know.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

A cell phone captured the majority of what the major news networks didn't bother showing: link

It's not terribly gruesome (you see him plummet, then nothing, then the "videographer" gets a closeup of Saddam with the noose still around his neck), but between the Islamic chanting and the sheer thought that you're about to watch someone get paralyzed, asphyxiated and just killed in one moment was chilling at least to me.

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Now he's finally death, muslims (and I mean terrorist in this case) have another excuse to commit more crimes. You know, all this is totally crazy and remember me the Holy Wars on medieval age. Many times people think we, human race, develop to new goals, but I think we're almost the same on caveman age: fighting for survive and againts other tribes.

How ya doing, buddy?

I like how Hussein was killed in what looks like a barnyard. How many people were even present?

Originally Posted by takeru

Now he's finally death, muslims (and I mean terrorist in this case) have another excuse to commit more crimes.

Just a note: it's generally a bad idea to say what you just did without offending anyone.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

I like how Hussein was killed in what looks like a barnyard. How many people were even present?

Probably about 20.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Death is the quick way out. What he would've gone through being alive in Iraq would've been incomprehensible to his simple death. Now that he's dead, people will start forgetting just like the newer generations don't know about Milosevic. When they're dead, people don't want to know and don't want to care.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle2114403.ece

Take that home and chew it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

On the contrary, death is the ultimate justice. You lose your life, which you can never regain. And "Thou Shalt Not Kill", if you look at the proper context, is actually 'Thou Shalt Not Murder." And yes, there is a difference.

That is just the kind of bullshit christians have made up to justify war and capital punishment. Personally, I'm not religious at all, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that your god left an asterisk at the end of that commandment. I read that book a few times over in my day. The only distinction between murder and killing is the one we've made up for them.

And I know for certain that kind man from Nazareth would disagree with you. Seeing as it's called CHRISTianity you'd think they'd actually start listening to what that guy said.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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The only distinction between murder and killing is the one we've made up for them.

Yeah, it's like we make up definitions for words or something. It's almost as if we've filled a whole language full of words we've made up to describe things.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by taiga

The only distinction between murder and killing is the one we've made up for them.

Are you honestly saying that killing someone in war and murdering a man in his sleep are the exact same? Killing/murdering is not defined as 'taking life', you know.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

Are you honestly saying that killing someone in war and murdering a man in his sleep are the exact same? Killing/murdering is not defined as 'taking life', you know.

I agree with you. That's like saying that some sicko that kidnaps and murders little children while they walk home from school is equal to a soldier in war killing opposing enemies on the battlefield. There obviously is a difference.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I can't help but notice the fact that you both jumped to the example of a soldier in combat. Jingoism rears its head in the funniest places, doesn't it?

The simple difference between killing and murder is that a murder is perceived to be an unjust killing. When people talk about acts of vengeance, they always use "and then he killed him" instead of "and then he murdered him." More than likely it's because the person telling the story views the subject as a hero figure, and that his victim was deserving of the (more than likely) frontier justice doled out to him.

There's a huge difference between the two, and if it honestly said "thou shalt not kill" in Hebrew (which we know it doesn't) the Jews would have had a significant moral conflict when it came to eradicating every man, woman, and child in Canaan.

The reason Christians launched wars and killed Jews was because they knew there was a difference. From a modern perspective, we think that the pogroms and atrocities perpetrated against Jews were heinous and constitute murder, but from a contemporary Christian perspective, Jews were poisoning wells and hoarding all the money in an age of Mercantilism. It's not really a matter of evil men doing wicked deeds (though many detractors at the time certainly felt so) it's just that nowadays we know better, or are at least supposed to.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by takeru

Now he's finally death, muslims (and I mean terrorist in this case) have another excuse to commit more crimes.

I don't see how Saddam's death would have any significant impact on terrorist groups; he wasn't calling out for jihad against the West to the masses, nor was his personality entrenched into terrorist groups. I'd say our killings of actual terrorist leaders had more influence upon terrorists.

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blah blah cavemen

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Interrobang

I don't see how Saddam's death would have any significant impact on terrorist groups;

Of course not. Maybe you should check again the news, because before diying he has called resistence to kick off all butt soldiers from Irak and sure they'll do. You can say this is nothing, but is a start.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

Just a note: it's generally a bad idea to say what you just did without offending anyone.

It can't be offensive 'cos is the truth, loud and fair. Maybe I should put in context what we live here on Spain, but it's still presents nowadays the idea of recovering the reign of Al-Andalus and I can watch it on TV almost everyday. Specially from people of Al-Qaeda, wich leave their ideas quite fair.

Most of muslims who come here to Spain don't integrate with rest of people. They live their own habits even if they go against law of the country they are. Even more, and this is the funniest part, the country MUST change their laws to fix with them. Does it make sense? You can see proofs of provocation on wearing veil on schools, some years ago with occupation of Perejil or, the last one this week, praying on a cristian church that was mosque on IX century.

The worst part of this, is the new xenophobist feeling that is growing on society, who can't trust them after all.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

You're only perpetuating that xenophobic feeling, if you can barely distinguish "Muslim" with "terrorist". I mean, c'mon, let's be reasonable. If I was Muslim, I would be disturbed by Christians who sought my death, too. And I'm not here trying to say, "Muslims have a beautiful faith that has nothing to do with warfare!" Much like Christians, their faith requires religious warfare. However, if you want to make a case for Islam making someone terrorist-prone, be my guest. An everyday Muslim, much like an everday Christian, probably could care less about what his or her religion dictates.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

I can't help but notice the fact that you both jumped to the example of a soldier in combat. Jingoism rears its head in the funniest places, doesn't it?

I think you're looking into my comment a bit too much. I wasn't advocating anything.

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Originally Posted by takeru

Of course not. Maybe you should check again the news, because before diying he has called resistence to kick off all butt soldiers from Irak and sure they'll do. You can say this is nothing, but is a start.

A start of what? People were already blowing up trucks and shrines without Saddam's command. Why would they start caring now?

"Butt soldiers"? Is that codeword for fags?

How ya doing, buddy?

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I think you're looking into my comment a bit too much. I wasn't advocating anything.

You didn't have to advocate anything. When it came to issues of death and killing, your first reaction was to justify the actions of men in the field, more than likely a conditioned response due to the patriotic impulse to "support the troops." It's of nobody's particular fault, it's just interesting to see how propaganda shows up.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Enter User Name

Somewhat graphic..

Spoiler:

I still want to see the vid though.

That picture isn't as graphic as the terrorists chopping that hostage's head off or when there were pictures of Abu Musai Al-Zarkawi (whatever his name is) after he died from the air strike.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Quote:

"They come here and don't integrate and expect us to tolerate them and their habits." You ever think that minorities group together because they aren't welcomed much?

It's called "subtle segregation." It perpetrates itself automatically because people prefer to interact with people of their own demographic instead of interacting with those outside of them. It's what causes the sense of "other" within societies based on whatever lines. In High School it was social, and as you move up the scale, it becomes racially or habitually-related.

Illegals don't conform for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that it's impossible for them to conform because they have no legal status.

In the case of Muslim immigrants in Europe, Pakis and such don't operate outside of social circles that are comfortable to them, and this is what causes subtle segregation, because those circles are more often than not based on ethnic lines. When a minority segregates itself from larger society, it by a rule becomes disadvantaged, and because the segregation is perpetuated, so does the poverty. It's how you have 3rd Generation French Moroccans who feel like second class citizens because all parties involved worked to keep each other segregated.

Immigrant minorities are not welcome in countries because they do not make themselves welcome. That is what causes resentment amongst natural-citizens who feel entitled to the native culture.

This isn't like language with Mexicans, though, in the case of Muslims in Europe it comes along much more sobering issues such as child abuse and terrorism.

Europeans have a right to be pissed about Islamism snaking its way into politics, but they also have to understand that they're as much a part of the problem.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Yeah, it's like we make up definitions for words or something. It's almost as if we've filled a whole language full of words we've made up to describe things.

Trouble is, these nasty little things called 'opinions' get all muddled up in a whole lot of those distinctions we've made up.

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

Are you honestly saying that killing someone in war and murdering a man in his sleep are the exact same? Killing/murdering is not defined as 'taking life', you know.

I don't want to sit here and say, "Yes, they're EXACTLY the same," because obviously they aren't. But damnit, if people and their gods are allowing for gray areas when humans kill eachother, then there sure as shit needs to be some more thought on the word "justice".

And what the fuck are you talking about? If the words 'killing' and 'murdering' aren't considered taking life then what do they mean? Has it meant "having a tea party" all this time and I didn't know?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

The simple difference between killing and murder is that a murder is perceived to be an unjust killing.

When a country enters a conflict under false pretenses or for reasons that a great deal of it's people feel are unfounded, when many believe there is no justice in the war itself, does that mean all the (religious) individuals in the millitary, the ones actually committing the killing for an unjustified reason are still somehow in the clear with their god? I know you aren't exactly saying that, but you're certainly leaving room for someone else to say it.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

The reason Christians launched wars and killed Jews was because they knew there was a difference. From a modern perspective, we think that the pogroms and atrocities perpetrated against Jews were heinous and constitute murder, but from a contemporary Christian perspective, Jews were poisoning wells and hoarding all the money in an age of Mercantilism. It's not really a matter of evil men doing wicked deeds (though many detractors at the time certainly felt so) it's just that nowadays we know better, or are at least supposed to.

If it was true that Jews were poisoning wells and hoarding money, then I can most assuredly see a justification for war. You gotta protect your neck man. Defending oneself is the most valid reason for killing that I can think of. But it seems there are A LOT of other reasons that in my opinion (and hopefully a handful of others) are completely asinine.

I suppose that's all justice is, though... an opinion. I hope my point isn't lost in that. Fuck it, it probably is. But like you said, people should know better.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?