[PS3] Cooking Guide: Can't Decide What To Eat? PROTIP: THIS IS THE MGS4 THREAD

Play coy all you want, Aard. If you're NOT pretending you can't tell what I'm insinuating and aren't just wanting to be gay about this, just let me know. Suda51, Hideo Kojima, Fumito Ueda, aside from being Japanese, all three of those developers have something in common as far as game design is concerned. It just so happens they also share a trait of getting lost on the way to film school. It's certainly nothing good, either.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Well, uh, of course I understood what you were insinuating, but there's not much to discuss about 'hurf durf metal gear solid more like metal gear BORING'. Once again it's just a difference of opinions. Obviously, not everyone will like that kind of presentation, and that's fine with me, but I like it, and I like Kojima's style of magic realism. Don't call me gay.

That aside though, another reason why I'm excited about Guns of the Patriots is that I checked out the multiplayer beta, and I know it finally plays like a good game. I just replayed MGS 2 last week, and its gameplay mechanics were downright archaic. You can't even move while crouching -- in a stealth game. MGO, though, was just plain fun to play, even as a grunt with none of Snake's arsenal and gadgets.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Aardark

not everyone will like that kind of presentation

It's not a difference of "opinion", Aardark. Look, when I'm playing a game, and the weapon I have equipped gets switched for a Pistol or Assault Rifle I put into my menu because of a cutscene, that's "presentation" getting in the fucking way of what I want to do as a player. Metal Gear Solid 4 is fairly playable, but there's shit the first time around that was extremely retarded to put up with. There's context sensitive information inside of cutscenes that you can miss if you skip them. The game goes out of its way to make you watch cutscenes, cutscenes begin to affect the game. This isn't a healthy mix, it's fucking stupid.

Yes, you can cite Metal Gear Online, but I'm almost done with the game right now and while it has some really great moments... it has some really fucking irritating shit. Specifically an overbearing "presentation" which is sometimes cool and sometimes really fucking stupid. And by stupid, I don't mean "I dun rike your stoly, Mr. Kojima." By stupid, I mean "I didn't want to sit through a cutscene that didn't have a fast forward button unlike codec calls, now I get to suffer through this boss battle because I just happened to ignore your bullshit exposition in favor of enjoying a rather playable hour or so of gameplay inbetween MOVIES."

For everything I like about this game, there are a million instances of "This isn't interesting game design" I feel like citing. Metal Gear Online is not Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. It's Metal Gear Online. Just to be clear.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Well alright, so what can I say now? I haven't played Metal Gear Solid 4 yet, so maybe liking or disliking it is indeed not an 'opinion' but a fact, for all I know. Okay? You win? I just shared why I'm excited about the game: because I liked the presentation of the previous parts, and the gameplay mechanics in this one seem to be improved, so perhaps I will like it even more! That's about all I can say at this point, until I finish the game (though even after that, I doubt I'll feel like trying to prove to other people that they should enjoy it). I wasn't really planning to get into a big argument over this.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

It wasn't about liking it, Aardark... Why does it have to mean I hate it? We get into the realm of game design or game mechanics or whatever else, and I just take issue with how this game might get cited as that "one great thing that finally did X, Y, or Z." "Post Modern Gaming" and the folks who associate it with guys like Suda51 and Hideo Kojima, seem to think it has something, anything to do with improving how we play games. When it's more about fusing another genre into the equation in ways that can really interfere with a person playing.

I don't have a problem with cutscenes, even long ones. But when you begin to try my patience and I get punished for it? That's horse shit. Switching my weapons? Keeping pertinent information in lengthy cutscenes that can't be accelerated? The former head of Sony has the right idea with the new Alone in the Dark. There's chapter select, and supposedly, just MAYBE a cutscene fast forward feature. So you can get to the pertinent info or scan along at your own pace.

But that's not to say MGS4 is bad because of this stuff. I had fun, bit of irritation here and there for what I said.

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I agree with both of you guys. One, if you want to divulge vital info, let me access it easily and at any time; not in the middle of a long-ass cutscene that passes me by into oblivion. I was pissed about the length of these damn things after I first met Drebin. It's annoying. Two, fast-forward would also be a nice courtesy if I'd like to watch for some crazy shit about to go down. Listening to Otacon yammer is one thing, getting chased around by some fucking GECKOs is another. That's the kind of stuff I'd prefer to watch.

But I also agree that there's nothing really wrong with the game for those who enjoyed Snake Eater or any of the earlier entries. These are problems or quirks fans are pretty accustomed to, and the improved controls and excellent graphics only sweeten the deal.

And Aard, I play Metal Gear Online a fair amount and it's great. We'll have to add each other.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I enjoy watching the cutscenes from the mgs series. Mgs2 not so much but I do enjoy watching the scenes from mgs4 and some of the flashback scenes with the press of the X button look pretty nice.
I wouldn't mind a fast forward feature but I wouldn't use it unless its a second time playing through it and even then I can always skip the scene if I wanted to.
I haven't tried mgo yet but if the update really speeds things up it should be more fun than the beta brought on.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

So, question for those who have beaten Act 2:

Spoiler:

What happens if you hit L1 once Snake has taken his shirt off in front of Naomi? I didn't know if she started crying because of accelerated aging, or if he was horribly scarred up somehow. I didn't spot the pop-up until the last second, and missed it. I get drawn in to the cutscenes and on occasion, I don't react in time for the L1 or X commands >_< Anyone able to throw me a bone on this?

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Shows a view of him in the mirror, I believe.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Regarding that...:

Anything disfiguring I should know about, though? :V

How ya doing, buddy?

Not really.

Spoiler:

I guess the Japanese find old people extremely horrifying.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I just finished the game couple hours ago and i'm truly shocked, awesome game overall and has replay value. It's really different from the rest of the series in terms of mood, what Kojima is trying to represent through Snake all this struggling and his battles is really showing off well. But like they said all the story and everything else wraps up nicely. If anyone has questions i can help or discuss when i can reach them, though i'm sure others will get to them.

Gonna talk about Act 3 for a bit..

Spoiler:

I really liked the idea that we get to re-live somewhat the ending of MGS3 where you're riding on the bike with Big Mama/Eva in the chase gameplay. It was just so fun and when the action slowed down for cinematic parts i thought it was a nice touch, only wish it was longer. But i like that nostalgia feel to MGS3.

Act 4, mainly about location..

Spoiler:

Holy shit, Shadow Moses. Not like it didn't get a face lift on the Gamecube from Twin Snakes, but certainly memories arose from 1998. Loved the narrative flashbacks and just weird seeing it all untouched.

Also when Otacon stopped Snake before the Blast Furnace to tell him to switch out Disc 1 to Disc 2 was genius.

Act 4 at the end..

Spoiler:

Ah finally! Just as i expected from some of the trailers REX and RAY fight. I thought this to be so awesome i wish they could've implemented this some more but for the duration and the timing i thought it to be a truly epic moment in the game. Snake using REX, the very thing he fought and beat that started it all to assist him now.

Act 5..

Spoiler:

Screaming Mantis is probably my favorite boss fight. I was wondering what Kojima would do to keep one of the famous MGS1 boss fights on par with 4 and i thought it was amazing. It's easy, but the stuff that you had to do was a long process i guess. The Psycho Mantis part i thought was funny no memory card and i don't have a Dualshock 3 controller yet so he got shafted twice lol. Anyone with a Dualshock 3 did it rumble and if so what did he say after it? Me being without he was just shocked that his powers didn't work and fell apart.

Act 5, very end..

Spoiler:

I got misty eyed while Snake was going through the microwave corridor, the music and him struggling to get to the end at the door i was really tapping the buttons to help him get there, was very dramatic i thought. Previous i didn't have my health at full so was kinda worried and can't use rations or something to re-fill. But it really got me to tear up, go on Snake you can do it.

Another epic hand to hand fight. I liked how they went through the different MGS themes fighting and thought it was very well presented. They could've done without the labeling the music though, it felt very commercial to me but still didn't ruin the moment. Even the life gauges changed to fit the combat style and previous games after some punches were thrown and you both reset to duke it out again, great stuff. Very nicely wrapped up.

WARNING - HUGE SPOILER Ending..

Spoiler:

This is where i was shocked and i'm sure most others, i liked how it ended and it truly did settle things once and for all. And i'm glad to see our favorite Old Snake still alive amongst us.

And Rose isn't married to Campbell overall! Whew, well he was a nice guy to do that, i still think she's a fox, lucky ass Raiden.

Great game overall, up there was my favorite in the series next to 3, 1, and 2.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

"Post Modern Gaming" and the folks who associate it with guys like Suda51 and Hideo Kojima, seem to think it has something, anything to do with improving how we play games. When it's more about fusing another genre into the equation in ways that can really interfere with a person playing.

I don't think it has anything to do with 'improving' gameplay, per se, just like I don't think David Fincher or David Lynch have somehow 'improved' film past Spielberg or Coppola. They're just different. I mean, that's the thing. I don't even like killer7 or Ico that much. I have more immediate fun playing something like Burnout or Grand Theft Auto — so yes, in a way that kind presentation can interfere with a person playing, depending on what your expectations are, just like someone wanting to see a Jerry Bruckheimer movie but renting a David Lynch DVD by mistake will probably feel pretty nonplussed.

The point is, those games are trying to move in another direction, they're different from what you're used to seeing, and I like it, because it means that the videogame industry is becoming more interesting and varied, maybe more mature. It's not just about getting lost on the way to film school or whatever. Just because a game has many cutscenes doesn't mean it would necessarily work better as a movie, and it's not just about cutscenes in the first place. It is, as you said, about fusing different genres, and ending up with videogames as a real medium for entertainment and telling stories in its own way that's not quite the same as movies or books. In the future, the majority of games will still be straightforward action, or role-playing, or racing, but more will also be experimenting with something else, and that's generally a good thing, even if the execution is sometimes heavy-handed.

Quote:

I don't have a problem with cutscenes, even long ones. But when you begin to try my patience and I get punished for it? That's horse shit. Switching my weapons? Keeping pertinent information in lengthy cutscenes that can't be accelerated? The former head of Sony has the right idea with the new Alone in the Dark. There's chapter select, and supposedly, just MAYBE a cutscene fast forward feature. So you can get to the pertinent info or scan along at your own pace.

Well, I'm not sure what's up with switching weapons, but in the previous games you could skip the cutscenes and just get all information pertinent to gameplay proper by using the codec later. If that's not possible in MGS 4 and you can actually miss some critical gameplay information due to skipping cutscenes, then I guess that's a problem. Not for me, since I like watching all cutscenes anyway, but I can see how it could be annoying.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

And Aard, I play Metal Gear Online a fair amount and it's great. We'll have to add each other.

Sure thing, maybe we can get some Gamingforce matches going, after everyone's done with the main game. Apparently it's region locked, though. That kind of sucks, though I did order the US version at least.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Aardark

I don't think it has anything to do with 'improving' gameplay

Quote:

The point is, those games are trying to move in another direction

Then these two things don't correlate. You previously said they do "interesting things" with gameplay, and I realize this is boxing you into that statement, but it begs the question... what kind of gameplay is a different presentation? Nothing they've done in this game, hasn't been done in other games. No, innovation isn't the mark of quality. Nor are all innovative things great because they are innovative. I just think this kind of statement always eventually leads to:

Quote:

and ending up with videogames as a real medium for entertainment

Think REALLY hard about what you're saying here. I love video games. I realize that's a personal statement, but I think it bears repeating when this kind of statement pops up. They are a "REAL" medium for entertainment. They are already versatile, already interesting, already thought provoking... in their own way. Ninja Gaiden on the NES? That was the dawn of cinematic games, the idea started there. It's only changed with presentation as technology gets better. Not a bad thing at all. Video games don't need validation, some of the fanbase just needs to realize that these aren't movies, aren't stories, and aren't books. Video games are interactive entertainment. Like any other game you've played, electronic or not.

They are a real form of entertainment already. If you think there needs to be lengthy exposition, cinematic flair, and thought provoking messages for this to be an entertainment form... then I guess you were never here for the game in the first place. At least that's how I feel about.

You're right, these games are different, the ones you've listed. But they borrow elements from other games and make them their own. That's why they're different. Some I feel succeed... others don't. I think you feel the same. The FAILURES are what bother me, because some idiot out there thinks their awesome plot summary provides an entertaining game. They want to write books instead of design and understand what makes a good game. That's what I mean when I say "Lost on the way to film school" or something similar. Their presentation is (generally) well thought out, stories that actually hold up. It's always been the game that I've pulled into question. I think the first Metal Gear Solid title I enjoyed playing was Metal Gear Solid 3. It is the best Metal Gear Solid prior to Metal Gear Solid 4 from a gameplay standpoint. I'm pretty upset that we had to wait that long for it to happen, personally.

Oh well.

Quote:

Well, I'm not sure what's up with switching weapons, but in the previous games you could skip the cutscenes and just get all information pertinent to gameplay proper by using the codec later. If that's not possible in MGS 4 and you can actually miss some critical gameplay information due to skipping cutscenes, then I guess that's a problem. Not for me, since I like watching all cutscenes anyway, but I can see how it could be annoying.

There aren't as many codec channels this game. The game relies more on the player piecing the story together, but a lot of pertinent information is laced in 3-4 cutscenes back to back to back. It's more of a first playthrough thing to be honest, as a I said. Once you know how to win, the cutscenes are a matter of whether or not you want to be passively entertained. This is cool.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Christ, Sunny's one of the cutest game characters ever. It tears me up when someone treats her bad

Actually, I haven't encountered so many feelings while playig a game. The BB Corps made me very nervous indeed when I first saw them. "Fuck, I have to beat those!?".
Sunny brings both tears to my eyes and a smile on my face.

Well, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle of Act 4. Brilliant location.

Regarding a boss battle:

Spoiler:

Holy shit I enjoyed the Laughing Octopus fight. Having to closely examine the enviroment to find your opponent was a brilliant stroke. I didn't see her mimic the anatomy dummy, though, which saddened me. Even though I guessed that the Mk. II was a trick, it was still a nice one.

I can't wait to finish this game and see what it has in store.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Act 4 is full of win.

BB Corps made me nervous too, all of them like the bosses in MGS1 i think. Except for some of them it took me longer to finish than i guess usual.

I'll mix up the BB corps just in case no one wants to know which one they're gonna fight next alothough a couple are pretty obvious.

Laughing Octopus:

Spoiler:

I had to do this a couple of times cause her rolling hurts really bad i thought i could spare a ration but she got me. Saw her mimic the CT scan machine? I guess it was just the long tubings. She was also mimicking Naomi but can clearly see it's Laughing Octopus and i think she even did a Haven Trooper i thought was just there before fighting Laughing Octopus. Plus the sound of laughter made it all the experience that much weird.

Crying Wolf:

Spoiler:

Just the location alone is intense and always Haven Troopers on you. This one took me the longest cause at first it was hard to find her and i was thinking you have to take out the troopers first, i was wrong they keep coming. Wasn't till after i beat her i noticed i could go higher onto the buildings and probably snipe her out, but then she wouldn't notice you and you need to get her to come out of her armor to damage her. I think she made me the most nervous.

Screaming Mantis:

Spoiler:

Favorite fight in the game aside from the REX and RAY fight, sorry it's a spoiler within a spoiler but if you're reading this and fought Screaming Mantis already then you defiantly did the REX and RAY fight. I thought this was the most enjoyable boss fight cause it was more interactive. Took a little bit to figure out but it was genius to make use of different items to make the battle work. I couldn't figure out why i couldn't shot her so i aimed for a doll and tada! This fight was pretty intense as well seeing all these "puppets" floating about even Meryl, so nostalgic. Can't wait to try these dolls a second time around gonna be fun.

Raging Raven:

Spoiler:

She wasn't all that bad since you are somewhat safe inside the little tower, she can be hard to spot with the others flying around i just thought i was gonna run out of ammo, but i didn't. And i don't think you can thanks to Drebin. When she gets beat up she retreats to a nearby rooftop and thought that as cool, though think see was one of the easiest. Yumi Kikuchi is hot.

MGS4 still lives up to the epic boss fights as its predecessors. Good job Kojima and Team.

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TEXT HERE TO SCROLL SPOILERS OFF OF MAIN PAGE THINGER FOR DAGGET ~Skills

omg act 5 is pissing me off.

Spoiler:

I'm at the very start upon landing and from what i can see it's a matter of patience. Either the patience to kill off the enemies or the patience to learn all the ways to sneak past through all the infantry. I've already died so many times I don't suppose there are any tricks to this.

Oh and also putting on some of the beauty's face camo look pretty funny on snake ^^

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Shenlon

TEXT HERE TO SCROLL SPOILERS OFF OF MAIN PAGE THINGER FOR DAGGET ~Skills

omg act 5 is pissing me off.

Spoiler:

I'm at the very start upon landing and from what i can see it's a matter of patience. Either the patience to kill off the enemies or the patience to learn all the ways to sneak past through all the infantry. I've already died so many times I don't suppose there are any tricks to this.

The answer is to evade.

Spoiler:

You'll get nowhere if you're spotted and on high Alert since the FROGS will constantly be respawning trying to take you out and you'll also get more Gekkos for your effort. Not to mention at the end of the stern is a watertight door you've got to open by rapidly pressing Triangle and doing with Gekkos and an army of FROGS shooting you is next to impossible.

My trick was at the start to equip the OctoCamo mask and press up against the container right in front of me where you start. Let the 2 FROGS do a search and move on and then gradually make your way along the left side sticking to the walls and shadow since your camo index will always be 99% and the FROGS won't see you. Make sure you've got the Solid Eye equipped and if any FROGS stand in your way of progress then just use the Mk2 to knock them out.
When you get to within sight of the door you'll see a Gekko patrolling. Theres also 2 FROG snipers with 1 of each side up high watching the door so be sure to take those out before proceeding. When the Gekko turns from the door and patrols in the other direction make a run for the door and you should be all set. If something goes wrong and the Gekko sees you then another one will jump down right in front of the door, just whip out the Rail Gun to bring both of them down and you should still have time to open the door without any FROGS bothering you.

It's an area of patience so just keep your head down and watch for FROGS and their patrol patterns and you'll get through.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Shenlon

TEXT HERE TO SCROLL SPOILERS OFF OF MAIN PAGE THINGER FOR DAGGET ~Skills

oh wait did i not mark my spoilers correctly o-0? Sorry if I didn't

And thanks simo I'll try that out later, what I tried to do was similar except I...

Spoiler:

tried to use the oil can and got about halfway and got cought. Then i just tried to immobilize a gekko in front of the door so that it would block the path of bullets.....almost worked sorta ~_~

also not sure about anyone else but I kinda miss the codec chats. Not for the long sequences where they explain the same thing as the cutscenes but for some of the interesting tidbits we get to hear and learn about certain characters or places

I was speaking idiomatically.

It's because of the front page "latest post" thing still showing spoilers even when the spoiler tag is used if it's the first line of text in your post.

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One thing: if you are aiming to get the statues for nonlethal takedowns on the B&B Corps (don't forget the FROGS in Act 1 have a statue for doing this), turn on night vision. You'll find the statue ASAP if you have that on; otherwise, it tends to be hard to notice.

Tips for the B&B Corps (note: for NONLETHAL takedown, get the nonlethal Mosin Nagant sniper rifle. I made use of it for all the bosses past Laughing Octopus):

Laughing Octopus:

There's a bed that you can hide under, and she won't be able to roll at you. I never tried this, but folks say you can just lie in wait and pop her when she comes around. If you want to duke it out on foot, watch out if she ever balls up. If she does that, fucking RUN. She'll run you over and take half of your life with her. To avoid this, hop on top of a crate.

I didn't have a real strategy for her, so this boss fight was the hardest. She cost me, like, seven rations or so. I didn't know what the fuck

Raging Raven:

Go to the TOP floor, and seek shelter at the corner atop the stairs, just inside the doorway. She'll constantly lose track of you this way. If you hear a whistling sound (or was it beeping...?), that signifies a "big boom" coming up. Go halfway down the stairs beside you, whilst prone, and you're golden.

I absolutely loved vanishing on this bitch. I'd watch her to fly around on the horizon, then I'd pot-shot her with my Mosin-Nagant to spook her.

Crying Wolf:

This one has tons of little tricks. She hunts largely by scent, so if you're downwind, she'll key in on you pretty fast. If you equip that herb you find in South America (recovers psyche), supposedly she won't be able to pick up your scent.

Cheapo tricks:
1) Equip face camo and lie prone mid-map. I never tried this, but folks insist that she'll prowl around for you if she can't find you.
2) Snipe from either tower. This is supposedly kinda tricky.
3) This is what I did; seek shelter under the tank tracked vehicle right beside where you gain control of Snake. Even if she charges the vehicle, you take very little damage. Plus, you are HIDDEN perfectly from her and the FROGS. After a minute or two, she will patrol. You'll spot her on the horizon (facing north, not facing the wall near behind you). Pop off a shot once she is between trees and well visible. She'll peek out to see what it was. This is when you pot-shot her with the Mosin-Nagant. Following this, she'll know right where you are. She'll either stampede/charge around, or she'll sprint aside a brief bit and try firing her rail gun at you. This can net you a second shot if you keep your bead on her.

Mantis:

I ALWAYS forget her name... Anyhow! She's got two dolls -- one is of The Sorrow, the other is of Psycho Mantis. Knock them both out of her hands and use Psycho Mantis' doll on her. Then have fun with it.

However, she uses Meryl as a human shield often. Supposedly, you can get her in a CQC grip and use a syringe on her a la Vamp. I never got the chance to do this; Snake always threw her to the ground. If you can pull this off, she won't be able to be picked up by Mantis (I never had luck, but you can try~). Otherwise, she'll shield one of the Dolls with Meryl eventually.

And regarding Act 4 and 5's boss-activity. Spoilered in general to hide details~

Act 4:

1) Vamp. Shoot him with a gun, straight-up. Once he's down, un-equip your weapon or go to a CQC-compatible one (ie: handgun). Be sure to equip the syringe as your item. CQC grip him from behind, and the Triangle button is now to inject him. Pretty straight-forward. Supposedly, the Solar Gun does obscene damage on him ='D

2) Metal Gear RAY. I got this guy in one go but thought I was fucked initially. Make heavy use of your ability to dodge (X-button). I took him out using only missiles. Lure him to the open, pop him. Circle around buildings or what-have-you

Act 5:

Now you're down to a fisty-cuff fight against Ocelot. This fight is multi-tiered; there are four levels, each one paying homage to a MGS title =D The best thing I can tell you is make use of CQC. Blocking works nice, but later on, Ocelot does grabs/throws/specials to fuck you up. Make use of the X-button and charge in low whilst attacking. Do CQC if he ever starts to block a ton, but be careful. Also, keep an eye out if he ever grabs you; there's normally a counter or something you can do to get loose.

The fourth tier, I was in panic-mode due to low health. I just hit the attack button non-fuckin'-stop. It does some cinematic side-shot like you're doing a special move. I didn't bother to see if not hitting a button would let it progress the same; I just kept mashing.

FELIPE NO

Yup, what Forsety said. Since I can't actually do anything to fix that, the best I can do is push spoilers forward a bit.

The thing doesn't recognize line breaks, so just fill it with junk text or characters. About 30 will do if you need to push your spoiler down.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

For Shenlon if you're still stuck..

Spoiler:

It's pretty easy once you start just head ahead and to the right of the thing you start behind. There is a ladder and immediately go up it they won't spot you, from here you need to go across to the other catwalk and drop down quietly. Now you have the upper hand to sneak around/sleep dart them.

I haven't got my strategy guide yet and starting my second play through, trying to go all the way non-lethal. I noticed the FROGs statue in at the end of the fight in the parking garage. There are some for the B&Bs? Is it after actually fighting them and you face their beauty?

I found it amazing that i'm seeing stuff i haven't seen before the first time around playing the levels mainly in Act 2..

Spoiler:

The PMC that is taking a leak off a bridge, took picture of that. And i guess Naomi's bra on some rocks and her shoes little bit more ways on the ground didn't notice before when you're tracking her down. Also i was slow to do it but when Snake and Naomi are talking in the research lab and she sits on the bed and Snake goes for a smoke and "drops" it, you can actually press L1 and look at her. I gotta go back and do this cause it let me for a split second when i tried.

As for the non-lethal take down of the bosses, you can still use regular guns like M4 custom or whatever to break them down until your fight their beauty right? I just assumed that's how it worked cause they aren't exactly finished off till the beauty comes after you. (sorry i didn't mark as spoiler cause this should be pretty obvious by now.. i'll edit if it's a problem)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You need to do nonlethal for their first form to get their statue (statue only remains for the beauty forms. You need to collect it before you finish them). Statues exist for all the B&B corps members in addition to the FROGS battle in act 1.

How do you get the camera? And is there a purpose to taking photos?

How ya doing, buddy?

Finished the game this past weekend and started doing my second run yesterday. Man, this game was epic, it gave exactly what I was looking for: closure. Though I gotta say the story is really convoluted, newcomers won't be able to appreciate (story-wise) how the all the games meshed together if they haven't played the previous ones. I clocked in at about 23 and a half hours. It could have been longer if didn't start rushing about half way through, heh, though this was because I eager to progress the story.

Spoiler:

Act 1 more or less played out the way I was expected, the trailers pretty much revealed everything we saw. About the meaning of "La Li Lu Le Lo", that was pretty much just the System's control over the word "Patriot", right? That's the implication I got from the convo with Drebin during Act 2.

I gotta say the game pulled somethings I didn't expect, specifically the part near the end of Act 2. I was not expecting to make a run down a busy city street escaping from a rampage of Gekkos. That part was pretty crazy.

The Act 3 "Desperate Chase" was intense too, and HGW score only made it even better. Heh, oh and we finally got to see Johnny's face. Snake's eastern europe appearance looked very similar to Gibson's from Snatcher (no doubt intentional).

Act 4, I loved those little voice-backs (?) you got when you encountered something nostalgic. Heh, and there was a pretty funny comment from Otacon during one of codec convos(one you have to initiate), where he mentions that he thought Snake was "the shit" when he took down the Hind D (I think that was the topic of discussion). The codec convo with Otacon before going to the Blast Furnace was pretty good too. Oh and I love how we got use the Rail Gun, so sweet. Ah, and I wasn't expecting Naomi to pass on like that, or be responsible for the creation of Vamp, that some what unexpected for me. Poor Otacon, it seems like it's a curse for the guy to fall in love.

One thing I didn't like but at the same I thought was really neat were the instances in the game where half of the screen was gameplay and other a cut scene. It was so hard to concentrate on the Raiden vs Vamp while facing the chaos of self-destructing Gekkos (gonna have to get my brother to play this time through, so I get enjoy the cut scene while he focuses on surviving).

And holy crap, Raiden! My god, there were so many times I thought he was done for (especially at the end of Act 4). Man, still continuing the fight in Act 5 like that, pretty bad ass.

Act 5, the best part for me was easily the Snake vs Liquid fight. That was pretty epic, starting from Snake vs. Liquid going through the game's and ending with the Old Snake fight. The most frustrating part for me though was the Snake vs. Liquid Ocelot, LO's power/heavy punch kept ending me quickly. Heh, it was nice to see Ocelot regaining his conscious giving his classic hand gesture and returning the comment "you're pretty good".

The Screaming Mantis fight was pretty good, it like a puzzle. It took me maybe 10 minutes before I finally figured it out (thanks inpart to constant contact with Otacon). Haha, and I love the brief return of Psycho Mantis. It was hilarious when he was trying to read your memory card again, as well as seeing his estatic reaction when he found out rumble was back.

Campbell pretending to marry Rose to protect her and little John was nice little twist. Bleh, I wonder why Kojima likes the name John so much (Johnny, Jonathan, John).

Oh and the biggest surprise, was definitely Big Boss. That was such a huge shocker. Along with the revelation that the Patrios themselves were Zero, Big Boss, Para-medic, Sigint, EVA, and Ocelot. Zero being the leader of the Patriot's was unexpected, as well as revealing Para-medic to be Dr. Clark (the one who performed the experiments on Grey Fox). Sigint being the DARPA Chief I'm sure no one was surprised by that, it nice to know how it was that the DARPA Chief knew of Ocelot's identity (mentioned in MGS1).

Snake not actually dying on screen, opting to live out the rest of his days, was kinda of a surprise as well. I thought for sure Kojima was gonna axe Snake, giving him a patriotic death. Though, I thought this was a much better way to end the story, giving it a much lighter mood.

Anyone actually try bumping into the characters during the briefing missions? There's a lot extra items in the Nomad, if you take the time to search about. Oh and here's a neat little easter egg, while on the Act 3 Mission Briefing check out Otacon's Laptop screen.

Here's one of things you can get (spoiler alert).

Spoiler:

I love the Digital Camera this time, there's a 2nd person view (though you need another controller for this), especially now that there's the ability to actually upload your photos. Heh, making it less useless when compared to the previous games.

Some photos, does contain game spoilers

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Kilroy

Christ, Sunny's one of the cutest game characters ever. It tears me up when someone treats her bad

OFT, for more cuteness try this out: while listening to "Oishii Two-Hand Seikatsu" on your iPod and check out the start menu. Haha, I stumbled upon it while browsing about in the menus listening to the iPod.

Originally Posted by Shenlon

also not sure about anyone else but I kinda miss the codec chats. Not for the long sequences where they explain the same thing as the cutscenes but for some of the interesting tidbits we get to hear and learn about certain characters or places

I miss the codec convos this time too. So lame how there were only 2 contacts.

Spoiler:

Speaking of the Codec, heh anyone actually try contacting Rose during the Screaming Mantis fight? If not I highly suggest trying it out, there's some hilarious reactions. If you call Rose enough time's you'll get to hear her cooking get mentioned again, as well as a reason as to be it's probably so bad.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Gechmir

How do you get the camera? And is there a purpose to taking photos?

I can't remember how I did it, but I think I picked up it during the mission briefing for Act 4. There's no real purpose for photos, other than sharing what you've taken or searching out for the ghosts of the game designers.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.