[Wii] Smash Bros. Brawl

Originally Posted by Sin Ansem

I like the part where 3 games out of several make a franchise crash. (Yeah, Sonic Next, Heroes, and Riders sucked hard.)

Because Shadow the Hedgehog didn't exist, and Adventure 1 and 2 were masterpieces? I think two "meh" games followed by four craptacular ones are plenty capable of crashing a franchise.

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I wonder just how this game is going to "feel". Sakurai mentioned that he wanted the game to be slowed down, and it probably looks like it might be closer to the first Smash. Is that good or bad in your opinion?

I'm hoping it's more like Smash Bros 64, if only because it might lead to a bit more balance. Of course, balance depends almost entirely on the characters themselves, but in Melee, some characters were able to take more advantage of the game's higher speed than others. I also seem to remember SB64 being less exploitable, but that probably had little to do with the game's speed.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

After playing Melee, I could never go back to SB64. It's just far too slow in comparison.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by StarmanDX

Because Shadow the Hedgehog didn't exist, and Adventure 1 and 2 were masterpieces? I think two "meh" games followed by four craptacular ones are plenty capable of crashing a franchise.

Yes, Adventure 2 was, but I'm sure the mass suckitude of Heroes made many forget that.

And Shadow was decent. Nowhere near winning any awards mind you, but decent. Too bad that TEH GUNZ YO and his association with Sonic made him hated by sane men and 2-D fanboys alike. Shadow's hate is totally political/cosmetic.

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I'm hoping it's more like Smash Bros 64, if only because it might lead to a bit more balance. Of course, balance depends almost entirely on the characters themselves, but in Melee, some characters were able to take more advantage of the game's higher speed than others. I also seem to remember SB64 being less exploitable, but that probably had little to do with the game's speed.

I remember many complaining about spikes, and in Melee, Ness and Kirby (and Pikachu to an extent) got nerfed.

Then again Smash elite love Melee's speed and rag on the original's slowness. I imagine even if Brawl is excellent (and why wouldn't it be, aside from the obvious potential of mistakes?) it's going to get hit with heavy backlash from Melee veterans.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Blah, Sonic sucks. Screw him, I'd much rather see Capcom's blue mascot in this game than Sega's.

I don't know how they'd make it work, though. The original Megaman, according to the story, is most likely dead, X and Zero are dead as well, and all that remains of them are "biometal" things that contain their consciousness. They can't actually do anything without a host body, and I'm wondering if Megaman actually does make it to this game, will it be the actual X or just his biometal form on one of the kids you play as in ZX?

I was speaking idiomatically.

If Solid Snake is there in his younger state and not the old man we'll play as in MGS4, then I'm pretty sure that Megaman would be intact. Besides, the Smash Bros. games are certainly not canon with their characters' storylines, so I doubt it would matter either way.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

Blah, Sonic sucks. Screw him, I'd much rather see Capcom's blue mascot in this game than Sega's.

I don't know how they'd make it work, though. The original Megaman, according to the story, is most likely dead, X and Zero are dead as well, and all that remains of them are "biometal" things that contain their consciousness. They can't actually do anything without a host body, and I'm wondering if Megaman actually does make it to this game, will it be the actual X or just his biometal form on one of the kids you play as in ZX?

Perhaps the biometals could be items you could use during a match. Just imagine Mario, Link, or Kirby helling out "R.O.C.K. ON!" and then transforming into model ZX or X, Hehe. It could either give them a temporary boost of strength or even give them (temporary) new skills. The A button could be the Z Saber and B could be the Z Buster. The button combinations like Up + A or Down + A, etc. could be the different special moves you could do in the Megaman Zero series like that sword uppercut or something.

Ehh, but I'd prefer if Megaman made an appearance. Classic Megaman would kick ass. X or Zero, as much as that would kick ass, I kinda doubt would be put in the game.

FELIPE NO

No, the original Megaman is long dead... I'm not trying to rag on him but he's just a child whose abilities pale in comparison to X and Zero's. I'd be fine with seeing him in it but I'd much rather see X/Zero, they just seem a lot cooler to me and the original Megaman hasn't appeared in a brand new canon game since that craplousy MM8.

I doubt a biometal would make a practical item, since your description makes it change the character entirely. Instead of that, I'm picturing a toned-down version of the Z-Saber as an item.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

But there's already a "Z-Saber" in Super Smash Bros.: The Beam Sword!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by WolfDemon

If Solid Snake is there in his younger state and not the old man we'll play as in MGS4, then I'm pretty sure that Megaman would be intact. Besides, the Smash Bros. games are certainly not canon with their characters' storylines, so I doubt it would matter either way.

A pretty good point.

Link vs. Young Link anyone?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Lizardcommando

But there's already a "Z-Saber" in Super Smash Bros.: The Beam Sword!

Yeah, that would get replaced by the Z-Saber and it would allow the characters to do brief three-hit combos with it instead of just swinging it once.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Technically, aren't all of the characters in the Smash Bros series toy versions of thier counterparts and Master Hand/Crazy Hand are the hands that operate them? They all do turn into little toys/trophies at the ends of their games but maybe I'm just looking at it the wrong way.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

In the first Super Smash Bros, the characters were dolls of some sort. In Super Smash Bros. Melee, the characters were trophies. These are witnessed by their respective Adventure ending scenes when the characters regress to their, um, original forms (for lack of a better term).

I'm not quite sure whether or not the Hands were purely behind the transformations since the story isn't exactly elaborated on other than a few short cutscenes.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Crazy Hand Trophy Description

Where the Master Hand loves to create, its alter ego is impulsive and destructive, consumed with that hollow feeling which comes from destroying one’s own creations.

Upon further inspection, the Crazy Hand trophy description does say that the Master Hand loves to create, so it is possible that the Master Hand created the Smash Bros. universe.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

his biometal form on one of the kids you play as in ZX?

This got me thinking of an awesome idea. Say either Vent or Aile (from Megaman ZX) were added to Brawl and as a default when they start a battle they are in the ZX biometal form. Now instead of having proper special (B) moves they transform into a different biometal form, sort of like a Zelda/Sheik thing. Each biometal is set to a certain special move eg. HX is set to B-Up, FX to B-Down etc. (I know there are more than four biometals, but I see no real reason to include LX as it's pretty useless out of the water.)

Now in each form instead of changing the special moves of the character it changes the standard attacks. For instances while in the ZX form your standard attack would use the Z-Sabre and to use the buster you would use the assigned special move eg. B changes to character back into ZX and can also be used to shoot the buster, hitting the B button would shoot a single shot and holding B would charge the shot. B would then again be pressed to shoot the charged shot. Charged shots could be transferred through forms, if you accidentally changed form instead of using an attack.

I dunno, I reckon it would be neat and an interesting change to the standard method of playing.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

Yeah, that would get replaced by the Z-Saber and it would allow the characters to do brief three-hit combos with it instead of just swinging it once.

Ah. I didn't think of that idea for it. Now wouldn't that be nifty?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by NovaX

"awesome" idea

That's the worst idea ever. The B moves are used to attack as well as transform? How the hell are you supposed to do anything? The game can't tell the difference between when you want to do one and not the other.

Your idea is too convoluted and poorly planned to be either practical or useful, especially in a game like Smash Brothers. I'd much rather see just X or Zero and keep their moveset limited to the easy SSB standards, please.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Well, Zero (the Rockman Zero version, anyways...) was already in two fighting games:

Onimusha: Blade Warrior
SNK vs. Capcom: Chaos (I think that's the name of it).

Maybe it's time to give X a chance in the fighting game spotlight.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

That's the worst idea ever. The B moves are used to attack as well as transform? How the hell are you supposed to do anything? The game can't tell the difference between when you want to do one and not the other.

Your idea is too convoluted and poorly planned to be either practical or useful, especially in a game like Smash Brothers. I'd much rather see just X or Zero and keep their moveset limited to the easy SSB standards, please.

Then how about the ZX characters have only the up-B attack as a save, and the B, smash-B, and down-B attacks change their forms, giving them a different A moveset and up-B attack?

In other words, Zelda/Sheik taken to an extreme.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

The B moves are used to attack as well as transform? How the hell are you supposed to do anything? The game can't tell the difference between when you want to do one and not the other.

Each different special move is dedicated to each transformation, so once you are in a form you use the same special move to perform an attack.

For instance B transforms the character in ZX, pressing B again would perform an attack as he can't possibly transform again.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by NovaX

Each different special move is dedicated to each transformation, so once you are in a form you use the same special move to perform an attack.

For instance B transforms the character in ZX, pressing B again would perform an attack as he can't possibly transform again.

The problem with that is that you've severely limited the capabilities of that character, since you've made an attack that would normally take 1 "unit of time" now take 2 "units of time". For example, since I'm not good with the megaman series, let's use a hypothetical example....

Let's say our main character is Mario. He has all of his A moves.

Down+B --> Luigi/Luigi's B Move
Left+B --> Dr. Mario/Dr. Mario's B Move
Right+B--> Mario/Mario's B Move
Up+B = Coin Punch

Ok, so we start as Mario. Since we're already Mario, Up+B would do his coin punch and Right+B would do his respective move. So far so good right? Well yeah, but the wrinkle comes next.

Say you are presented with the perfect opportunity to kick Jigglypuff's ass out of the stage, but can only be done with Luigi's B Move. So what do you do now? Well, the obvious thing to do is to just Smash with A, but if you hadn't thought of that, you would have been forced to press Down+B to change to Luigi first, and then Press Down+B again to actually do the move. Sounds like a short amount of time, but that's plenty of time for Jigglypuff to get the fuck away or, if you're unlucky, use Rest.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

So.... basically you're using "a player can suck using this character" as an excuse for why it wouldn't be a good idea.

Oh, and not every character has to be the best character in the game.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Screw this whole biometal transformation idea, it's awful. Let's just use plain old Zero. His moves from X4 and X5 are perfectly suited for Smash Bros, and the only "transformation" he needs is to be able to swap between his Z-Saber and Z-Buster.

I saw these moves on a Megaman fansite. The names are really Tokyoesey.

Here's a movelist I made using his moves from X5. Most of his saber moves are restricted to the A button.

B: Z-Buster (He just whips it out of its holster and fires 3 rounds at a time, depending on how fast you tap the button and how close you are to the enemy. It has a slight charging ability too.)

Up+B: "Denjin" (he does an up-rising slash with his saber while it's covered in electricity)

Smash+B: W-Shredder (He appears to dash forward, but actually sends out a phantom image of himself that dashes forward and slices the enemy, blowing them away with a wind element)

Down+B: Quake Blazer (He plunges his sword in the ground while it's covered in flames. If done from the air it leaves some explosions on the spot where it hits the ground, but if done from the ground it does a single explosion with a wider area.)

His Super Smash, I don't know... maybe that one where he slams his fist on the ground and a bunch of those energy pillars come crashing upward from the ground?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by The_Griffin

So.... basically you're using "a player can suck using this character" as an excuse for why it wouldn't be a good idea.

Oh, and not every character has to be the best character in the game.

No, I'm just saying that there's a natural disadvantage to having only two B moves as opposed to the standard four, discounting the recovery move.

FELIPE NO

Sheik only has 3 moves, and of those one of them is utterly worthless.

Despite this, he's still one of the best characters in the game.

Your point?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

It's just a plain bad idea. That's all there is to it.

Also... "he"?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

Screw this whole biometal transformation idea, it's awful. Let's just use plain old Zero. His moves from X4 and X5 are perfectly suited for Smash Bros, and the only "transformation" he needs is to be able to swap between his Z-Saber and Z-Buster.

I saw these moves on a Megaman fansite. The names are really Tokyoesey.

Here's a movelist I made using his moves from X5. Most of his saber moves are restricted to the A button.

B: Z-Buster (He just whips it out of its holster and fires 3 rounds at a time, depending on how fast you tap the button and how close you are to the enemy. It has a slight charging ability too.)

Up+B: "Denjin" (he does an up-rising slash with his saber while it's covered in electricity)

Smash+B: W-Shredder (He appears to dash forward, but actually sends out a phantom image of himself that dashes forward and slices the enemy, blowing them away with a wind element)

Down+B: Quake Blazer (He plunges his sword in the ground while it's covered in flames. If done from the air it leaves some explosions on the spot where it hits the ground, but if done from the ground it does a single explosion with a wider area.)

His Super Smash, I don't know... maybe that one where he slams his fist on the ground and a bunch of those energy pillars come crashing upward from the ground?

Hmm, that's pretty much what I had in mind for X series Zero. The only differences with my idea is that Zero's Smash B attack would be the Juuhazan attack (I think that's what it's called) from X8. It's the one where Zero gets into a fighting stance for a second and then does a powerful slash attack afterwards. Also, I had two ideas for the "Super Smash" attack.

My first idea is pretty much the same thing like what you mentioned. Zero charges up and then smashes his fist into the ground and energy beams shoot out onto the ground, covering the screen for a few seconds. My second idea for a "Super Smash" attack would be Zero going into "Maverick Mode" and he charges at the closest opponent and does that powerful 8-hit combo. It would be the same one Omega does in Megaman Zero 3 and Megaman ZX.

There's nowhere I can't reach.