[Tournament] 2007 MLB Discussion Thread

cy youngs is another record that won't likely ever be beaten. Well, maybe if Greg Maddux continues to top out in the low 80's for 10-15 years he might have a shot. 340 wins or something now. Guy is sick. Guys go up to bat thinking "I got him this time, I know what he will do!" --- second later...grounds out to 2nd..."WTF."

I was speaking idiomatically.

Maddox is definitely the smartest pitcher in the game. He never ceases to amaze me.

I love baseball. I should keep up with this thread, but the Kansas City Royals aren't exactly anything to brag about.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by The Dopefish

Like any good Red Sox fan, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. They're 13.5 games ahead of the Yankees (biggest lead since September 1995) and have the best record in baseball. It's just a matter of time before that gap closes though; I'd say starting next month.

Post updated to reflect current standings.

I'm loving every minute of this. Best part is I sit right next to a guy from Brooklyn everyday and I get to rub this in at least once every 15 minutes. I'm an Orioles fan (second place and gaining momentum...maybe something good happens if our starters stay good), but I'll always root for the Red Sox over the Yankees as a lesser of two evils. I haven't had much to root for, so every Yankees loss is as good as an Orioles victory right now...So I've had plenty to cheer for.

I say Erik Bedard (leads league in strikeouts, 3.60 ERA or so, 8 innings of shutout tonight, only 4 wins because of no run support) and Brian Roberts should be the O's All-Stars this year. Agree? Disagree? Anyone give a fuck about the All-Star Game?

Edit: Ouch, sorry to hear that Rainman...Bedard's shutout tonight was against KC and I know we're 6-0 against KC this year. Meche is turning into a good signing at least.

Most amazing jew boots

Miguel Tejada will be the lone Oriole in the All-Star Game this year. Sorry. Someone needs to back up Jeter. (Bedard's ERA is higher than Steve Trachsel's, FFS.)

The Red Sox have 5 definite All-Stars at this point: Ramirez, Ortiz, Schilling, Beckett and Lowell. With the possibility of Varitek, and Youkilis and maybe one of these three: Papelbon, Wakefield and Matsuzaka. I have the feeling that none of those three will be there and Varitek will end up going but Youkilis will be snubbed.

How ya doing, buddy?

Eh, Miguel's having a rough stretch...He's been hitting for average, but before the Oakland series last week, he had 4 extra base hits (48 out of 52 were singles!) and it's cost us a bunch of games, frankly, considering he's our big bat and he wasn't driving in anything. I think he might get in on namebrand recognition, but I'd definitely vote Jeter ahead of him. Although, off the top of my head, I can't think of another SS having a good year right now.

Trachsel's having an excellent year, amazingly. He's just getting hosed on run support (like Bedard). Guess moving to American League did him some good...Maybe facing DH's instead of pitchers keeps him more alert. Or something. Bedard still has the edge in strikeouts and he's gotten some decent Baseball Tonight coverage as well.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It's been a while since an update. But now's as good a time as any.

Barry Bonds just hit his 756th home run, which makes another home run record (McGwire 62, Bonds 70) I've witnessed personally. There was a great video from Hank Aaron, graciously passing the torch. Mike Bacsik gave it up on the 7th pitch of the at-bat (3-2 count, 1 out, none on) and looked like he was going to cry (and later doffed his cap to Barry), and the guy who ended up with it (a Mets fan, lolololololo) was in the bottom of a nasty mosh pit involving probably 50 people and was carried away by maybe 10 cops. The grounds crew ended up taking out the bases, and his son Nikolai flew over the railing before anyone else on the Giants knew it was a homerun. 435 feet on the tape measure.

A great moment, really.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

A history soiling moment.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by blngw$rd

A history soiling moment.

Explain.

Most amazing jew boots

Is that really necessary? The man's taken more performance enhancing drugs than Max Zorin's horse. Don't pretend he hasn't.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by blngw$rd

Is that really necessary? The man's taken more performance enhancing drugs than Max Zorin's horse. Don't pretend he hasn't.

I'll remember this if you're ever in a situation where you may be guilty but the evidence is lacking and the majority of people say you're guilty without any actual proof.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I suppose Victor Conte is in prison for not supplying him with steroids.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by blngw$rd

I suppose Victor Conte is in prison for not supplying him with steroids.

He's not in prison for anything right now. Equally important is that no one has been directly connected to Conte yet, simply implicated.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

And I guess you think OJ was guilty, too!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, with the logic you're using here I expect you think he was simultaneously innocent of murder in the criminal case and guilty in the civic case. The justice system isn't the be all and end all of truth, you know.

How ya doing, buddy?

I think there's more evidence to convict OJ than Bonds.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, you might expect that when they design a drug specifically so that you can't test for it.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Considering that using steroids wasn't illegal in Major League Baseball until a few years ago, I think the point is mostly moot.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

It's not what you know or believe, but what you can prove.

Until someone shows incontrovertible proof that Barry Bonds used performance-enhancing drugs that were illegal, then the lot of you screaming foul are just hating.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

It's not what you know or believe, but what you can prove.

Until someone shows incontrovertible proof that Barry Bonds used performance-enhancing drugs that were illegal, then the lot of you screaming foul are just hating.

It's not hating, NP. It's disappointment and a bit of disgust over the circular parade of shame that looms over professional sportsmen these days.

Breaking Hank Aaron's record should be a time for celebration and awe. Records should be broken. People should strive for the glory.

But even if it cannot be proven, and even if the legality of the matter is grandfather claused into mootness, the realistic potential for steroid abuse having been a factor in Bonds' achievement places a heavy damper upon the event. We want these records to be pure, to know that it was a marvel of human nature and perseverence that enabled the dream to come alive. These men become as superhumans, the stuff of legends. We shouldn't have to wonder if it was possible only because of drugs, drugs that could elevate any common man into an athletic behemoth. It takes the majesty out of the man and out of the feat.

And even if it was just one isolated suspicion, we could probably move on, we could tell ourselves it's just the embittered snipings of anti-patriots - after all, tarnishing a living legend of the national pasttime is tantamount to spitting on the American flag, right?

But Bonds is only one of numerous players suspected of using steroids. And steroid abuse is only one of numerous criminal charges looming over professional sportsmen. Sociopathic violence, illegal gambling, animal abuse, domestic abuse, alcoholism, narcotics possessions, weapons possessions, possible attempted murders, these issues have hung like dark clouds over nearly every major American sport. And that's not to mention the legal, yet shameful, primadonna behaviors exhibited by many players.

Our athletes used to be heroes! Now what are they? Thugs, criminals and poor role models for the kids who want to someday play in their shoes.

So when a monumentous occasion like Hank Aaron's record being broken comes along, we want to be overjoyed. We want to herald a victory. We want to embrace a new hero.

But...we can't. Because we know that the victory may have been dishonest. That's upsetting and we have a right to be upset. What the hell happened to our heroes? When did it become all about the money? When did selling your soul become the only path to glory?

No, it's not hate. Don't even mistake it as such. We're just disillusioned, and that looks down a far longer road to recovery.

Most amazing jew boots

Blahblahblahblah....

Spare me with all the sentimental shit. When I see some proof, then I'll be all about putting the proverbial foot in Bonds' ass, until then, the man is the legitimate home run king.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by The Dopefish

Considering that using steroids wasn't illegal in Major League Baseball until a few years ago, I think the point is mostly moot.

That argument is stupid. The non-medical use of steroids is illegal in the United States.

They're never going to gain any hard evidence that Bonds did or did not use any performance enhancers, because there was not a test available at the time that would detect the designer steroids that he allegedly used, and because MLB does not save blood samples for use at a later date, when a reliable test may become available.

While I think that he did use performance enhancers, based on the changes in his body from say 97/98 to 2000/2001, it doesn't really matter. You can't take his homeruns away. You don't see anyone trying to strike Palmeiro's 3000+ hits and 500+ homers off the books, and he was actually caught and suspended for steroids.

I mean if it really and truly bothers you guys, keep in mind that there is a fair chance that Arod will pass him in about 7 years.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

If Hank Aaron is able to pass the torch amid all of the controversies and allegations, I think I can give Bonds the benefit of the doubt as well. Whether he's been truthful or not, at least Bonds has come out and said that he didn't knowingly take anything, unlike Mark McGwire and his "I'm not here to talk about the past" shit.

As far as the numbers are concerned, Bonds has more homeruns than anybody, but hammerin' Hank will always be the homerun king in my eyes because I KNOW he did it the right way... on and OFF the field. But, I tip my hat to Bonds on his accomplishment, nonetheless.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Not to mention likely at least a 100 hundred pitchers were probably using steroids anyways. I bet it will be less than 7 years russ.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Bonds hit #757 tonight.

Everyone can chutup anyway, because Sadaharu Oh's 868 will probably never be broken (unless A-Rod puts on 50+ home run seasons for the rest of his career). Though, at his current pace (44 HR/yr), he could do it in about 8.5 seasons.

I was speaking idiomatically.