Why not legalize prostitution?

Originally Posted by Divest

No, no.

The complete opposite. I'm saying smoking pot is more harmful.

And I've heard of plenty of deaths related to marijuana.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't saying "smoking pot is more harmful than cigarettes" the same as what sass said "smoking butts is less harmful than smoking pot"

Therefore, what you are arguing is the same as what she asked, and therefore not the complete opposite.

Anyhow...

I've always considered smoking anything to be equally dangerous. In the big picture, you're inhaling something into your lungs that they weren't meant to have put in them. Any kind of smoke is unhealthy. Campfire smoke can kill you if you breath in too much. So arguing the semantics of 'is tobacco smoke worse than marijuana' isn't gonna go anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Divest

No, no.

The complete opposite. I'm saying smoking pot is more harmful.

Divest, did you read what I wrote. =/

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And I've heard of plenty of deaths related to marijuana.

I'll concede the point if you can prove more deaths nationally from marijuana than from cigarettes. =D

At the same time, we're losing the original point of the OP. I'm not sure if that's kosher or not, considering it's pretty much KP arguing with everyone who uses their brain.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

On the topic of Marijuana being harmful. I had a friend that smoked pot. He died at the age of 19 from a rare lung disease. Now, I'm no doctor but the fact that it was something involving his lungs, just kinda leaves me to believe it might have had something to do with all the pot he smoked.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

On the topic of Marijuana being harmful. I had a friend that smoked pot. He died at the age of 19 from a rare lung disease. Now, I'm no doctor but the fact that it was something involving his lungs, just kinda leaves me to believe it might have had something to do with all the pot he smoked.

He died at 19 due to a rare lung disease. He shouldn't have been smoking anything, dude.

He didn't die because of marijuana use - the shit just sped up the degradation of his lungs, I imagine. But then, I'm not a doctor.

But seriously. Someone prove that pot kills more people nationally/annually than cigarettes! I'd love to see that one.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

He died at 19 due to a rare lung disease. He shouldn't have been smoking anything, dude.

He didn't die because of marijuana use - the shit just sped up the degradation of his lungs, I imagine. But then, I'm not a doctor.

But seriously. Someone prove that pot kills more people nationally/annually than cigarettes! I'd love to see that one.

He didn't have the lung disease when he was smoking. He was in the hospital for 3 months dieing when they realized he had whatever it was. The bad thing is it sounded like the doctors didn't even know what it was he had.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Divest, did you read what I wrote. =/


I'll concede the point if you can prove more deaths nationally from marijuana than from cigarettes. =D

At the same time, we're losing the original point of the OP. I'm not sure if that's kosher or not, considering it's pretty much KP arguing with everyone who uses their brain.

Yes, yes, I read what you wrote but I'm here at work and I had to switch quickly between here and just hit the post button. I expected to have time to go back to it, but I see that wasn't the case. I may end up doing that again to this post so forgive me if that happens. Anyways, back to the discussion:

You have to understand that I'm comparing cannabis to tobacco directly, meaning tit for tat what the drug containts, not necessarily the rate of consumption.

It's well documented that the chemicals found in marijuana are more harmful than the chemicals found in tobacco, but tobacco is consumed at a more frequent rate. Having said that, marijuana is still technically the more dangerous drug (especially when it comes to short-term effects). You can argue that the reason tobacco is more harmful is because of the addiction it causes but you'd do well to remember that weed is an especially habit forming drug. Not to mention it does horrible things to your immune system.

Also, are we talking short term or long term effects here? Short term, come on. Cigarettes don't alter your mind whatsoever whereas cannabis most definitely does. Long term it's moreso a question of your ability to quit smoking cigarettes. If your average cannabis smoker were to smoke as habitually as your average tobacco smoker, the numbers would be higher. Then again, I have known a couple of pot smokers who DID smoke as habitually as a tobacco smoker and let me tell you firsthand, their health was complete shit. They would smoke [pot] like crazy for about two weeks, get extremely sick for about a week and cough up phlegm, then go back to smoking. Eventually they stopped because of this reason.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Divest, you're killing your own thread. I really don't want to respond to a tangent on a tangent but if I must: you've completely misunderstood me. When I say use the word 'many' I don't mean 'any'. I'm not sure why, or how, you thought that. I got a sneak peak of one of your posts before you edited and I know you're aware of this to some degree. I am not going to elaborate any more than that in this topic.

I'd like to get back to arguing with people who use their brains on the prostitution query if I could. The reason I brought up drugs was because I thought there were some interesting parallels to the prostitution. We really shouldn't be focusing on the drug issue itself though. At least not here.

It's been brought up that many (not any) of you disagree with me on what is a moral issue and what is just an issue. Hopefully by now we've gotten to a point where we at least understand how the millions of people like myself think. I'm not demanding that any (not many) of you be forced to agree with me. It's a controversial issue in the real world and it shouldn't surprise anyone that it became controversial here as well, if only because of myself.

I'm sure it's frustrating that what appears so basic and logical is not getting through to someone who writes well enough that he should know better. (On second thought, maybe me no write so well either) But I don't share most of your morals, and I'm entitled to my opinion, and even the logic I use with regards to serving the public is radically different. I'm enjoying the debate a lot and I appreciate the opposing point of view. As i said earlier, i agree with Denicalis that there's no chance I can convince you to see it my way, and I'm not going to change either.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

As i said earlier, i agree with Denicalis that there's no chance I can convince you to see it my way, and I'm not going to change either.

That's fine and dandy, more than likely a lot of people won't change their views either. My biggest beef is that you are saying prostitution is harmful in a lot of ways, and therefore should continue to be illegal no matter what the circumstances are. Because of your religious/personal beliefs, this is the reason why, and apparently, the only reason why you think it should continue to be illegal.

The problem I have with that angle is you are refusing to see that prostitution has the POTENTIAL to do a lot of good, if it is legalized. You look right at the facts and ignore them completely because of your moral beliefs. What we don't understand is how you could be so against something that would cause a lot of certain crime rates to go down, help stop the spread of STD's and improve the well being of a lot of people.

As an example AGAIN: If your daughter turned 18 years old, and despite your best efforts to shield her from the world, she decides to become a prostitute, and there is nothing you can do about it. Would you rather have her walking the streets, getting beaten by some guy if she doesn't make a certain ammount of cash, or rather, would you want her in an establishment where at any time she can deny service, get good health benefits, or just quit at anytime and do something else with her life?

Or will you be a typical bible thumper, and assume she was never a part of your family to begin with?

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Originally Posted by killerpineapple

When I say use the word 'many' I don't mean 'any'. I'm not sure why, or how, you thought that.

I never said that you said "any". I said the word "any". The reason I said "any" was because I was stating that there wasn't any drug that was less harmful than cigarettes. Do you see where I'm coming from now?
Now since you said "many", besides the drug we're debating about now (marijuana), which drugs do you seriously think cigarettes top in terms of negative effects?

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I am not going to elaborate any more than that in this topic.

You didn't elaborate at all. You merely said "You didn't understand me!!! " When I clearly did. How could I misinterperate

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I think alcohol and cigarettes are much more dangerous to users and to society than many illegal drugs.

Now, I'm asking you, which drugs are you talking about? Sounds to me like the reason you don't want to elaborate is because you know you said something completely stupid and don't have the logic to back it up. The closest you could get to reason would be pot but you already blew that by saying "many".

I was speaking idiomatically.

Sorry Divest, good question, but not here. You can check out the RSA's findings in the Commision on Illegal Drugs if you wish.

Grail: To me the good that would result from legalized prostitution doesn't nearly match the good if it were abolished altogether and I'm talking about exterminating it even in its illegal form. I'm not ignoring the facts. I'm aware of them and still have arrived at my conclusion. Why do so many people automatically dismiss statistics that show that there is a drastic increase in the amount of abuse and violence against American workers in the sex industry? And that includes when it is legal. Even though I know it's highly unlikely that prostitution can be eradicated completely in places where it is illegal I'm unwillingly to give up on that cause. Because if it could be stopped entirely it would benefit society better than if were simply legalized and given government support. Disagree with me if you wish, but that is my reasoning.

If I hadn't mentioned it before, I would be heartbroken if my child became a prostitute. But that's not enough to magically make me want to alter the system so that's she protected from doing something that I told her not to do and that the law told her not to do too. In the end I am more concerned for her soul than her physical well being which is why I would prefer her to grow up in an environment that more closely shares my views.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Haha oh man. I don't even know how to respond to that either.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Grail: To me the good that would result from legalized prostitution doesn't nearly match the good if it were abolished altogether and I'm talking about exterminating it even in its illegal form. I'm not ignoring the facts. I'm aware of them and still have arrived at my conclusion. Why do so many people automatically dismiss statistics that show that there is a drastic increase in the amount of abuse and violence against American workers in the sex industry? And that includes when it is legal. Even though I know it's highly unlikely that prostitution can be eradicated completely in places where it is illegal I'm unwillingly to give up on that cause. Because if it could be stopped entirely it would benefit society better than if were simply legalized and given government support. Disagree with me if you wish, but that is my reasoning.

Yes, and if I could close my eyes and wish away all the BAD BAD things in the world, why, that would just be happy cakes and gum drops! Oh boy yes it would! Grow up. Violence, war, and prostitution have been as old as time itself. Instead of closing your eyes and wishing away the problem, you coudl be doing so much more by at least enacting laws that would control it, and make it safer. Course with violence and war, well, the only laws that go into effect make each case there more effiencent and a faster way to kill. So go figure.

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If I hadn't mentioned it before, I would be heartbroken if my child became a prostitute. But that's not enough to magically make me want to alter the system so that's she protected from doing something that I told her not to do and that the law told her not to do too. In the end I am more concerned for her soul than her physical well being which is why I would prefer her to grow up in an environment that more closely shares my views.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want my kid growing up and selling her hoochie on an everyday basis. But I have learned that the more you shelter, and try to keep your child from finding out the bad things in this world, the more they are curious about it, the more attracted to it they become. It's human nature to be adventurous, curious, and moreso, seek what is forbidden. Your fucking Eve knew that much, according to the bible.

And as far as growing up in an environment that shares your views, that's a good start. Move to some place where prostitution isn't as widespread. Oh, and if she ever DOES ask what prostitution is, make sure you tell her that it's a filthy race of people that have no rights, no morals...they don't take baths, they eat babies and they all should be stoned because they belong to that part of society. That should scare her enough.

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Maybe the war on prostitution is doomed. Another similarity to the drug issue. But you're asking me to condone something that I firmly believe is wrong. I can't do that no matter how bad we're losing.

Hey, I agree with you about the tendency of sheltering to backfire. It's important for people, even those as conservative as me, to be knowledgeable about the world and be able to handle exposure to it's less than savory parts. It's better to be able to deal with and resist temptation than to hide from it all your life.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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In the end I am more concerned for her soul than her physical well being which is why I would prefer her to grow up in an environment that more closely shares my views.

I may be taking this out of context... but you are basically just confirming that you want her to follow YOUR views of what is right and wrong, and refuse to help your daughter if she were to ever develop her own.

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To me the good that would result from legalized prostitution doesn't nearly match the good if it were abolished altogether and I'm talking about exterminating it even in its illegal form. I'm not ignoring the facts. I'm aware of them and still have arrived at my conclusion. Why do so many people automatically dismiss statistics that show that there is a drastic increase in the amount of abuse and violence against American workers in the sex industry? And that includes when it is legal. Even though I know it's highly unlikely that prostitution can be eradicated completely in places where it is illegal I'm unwillingly to give up on that cause. Because if it could be stopped entirely it would benefit society better than if were simply legalized and given government support. Disagree with me if you wish, but that is my reasoning.

Statistics show in countries where it is legal, to have much lower rates of rape and other sexual crimes. By taking prostitution off the street, you can take the employee's off the street and put them in a work environment where they would have the right to complain to police. Right now they know they have no one to turn to since their job is illegal, even though their pimp AND customers abuse them, and often end up dead or traumatized. However we've repeated this too many times already, lets get to the point.

The biggest problem here , and the reason why you will never change your mind (which very few people ever do ) is you are being selfish. You don't care how making prostitution legal would help others, or how many deaths/rapes it would prevent. You will defend where you stand to the very last, even if it would mean the death of 500 innocent people this year alone, simply because you think it is 'icky', and because your belief doesn't allow it.

That would be like Atheist saying "hey, religion and church are against my morals and I do not agree with them, therefore they should not be allowed even though on a logical level I have no problem with it and may help others and the community.". So then all of a sudden, your religion is outlawed, and illegal. How would you feel about that? To all of a sudden not have the freedom to follow your religion, all simply because the idea was 'icky' in someone's mind.

Lets just replace a word now

"hey, legal prostitution and sex are against my morals and I do not agree with them, therefore they should not be allowed even though on a logical level I have no problem with it and may help others and the community."

Wow, by just changing two subject words, I changed it from something that is against you (making church and religion illegal), into a sentence that is almost exactly what you are stating (making prostitution illegal). I bet the original sentence sounded pretty stupid to you and any other religious people, yet that is almost exactly what you are saying to us.

It all comes down to your selfish belief's and morals. "This is my belief, and I will be damned if I let you do something else, even though I agree with you that it would mean better treatment for those in the business, and maybe even prevent poor Jennifer from getting raped next week"

Here is a better scenario, as you seem to keep bringing up the daughter thing. What if your daughter got raped by some drunken guy, because he had an itch in his pants and could not pick up a girl, so he see's your daughter walking home from a friends place near a dark alley, and in his drunken mind, decides to have fun with her. Had prostitution been legal, he could have paid some woman for the fun and been done. She would have gone home safe, your daughter would have gone home safe, and Uncle Sam would have an extra $10 in his wallet. Sure, it probably won't be the exact case with your daughter, but I bet that scenario has happened more than once, resulting in the rape of some innocent girl somewhere in the world, and many more like it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

(I actually wanted to write my freshman paper on legalizing prostitution, but I was afraid of the negative connotations. *sigh* what an insecure kid I was back then)

Not much into replying in the Political Palace, but I'm curious: Killerpineapple, do you honestly think it's possible to COMPLETELY remove prostitution in the United States/world/wherever-you-live?

You seem intelligent if not stubbornly religious (nothing personal), so I'm just going to assume that you'll say "no, it's no possible." So then, rather than making the act illegal, wouldn't it be better to legalize it? (the 'lesser of two evils' so to speak?) A lot of things would be better; this isn't some sort of hypothesis based on what-ifs, we've already seen the positive effects of legalizing prostitution in many other countries, right?

Why is there such a negative feeling with sex/sex before marriage? I'm not sexually active person myself, but I honestly don't see what the big deal is; why would providing sex for cash (and health care and tax cuts!) worse than something like modeling? I understand that it's a precious and sacred thing to many, but not everyone feels like that, right? I mean, what gives you the right to preach and control if you can't back-up your ideas with facts and logic and instead fall back to your gut instinct, what 'you feel is right'?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Garret

I may be taking this out of context... but you are basically just confirming that you want her to follow YOUR views of what is right and wrong, and refuse to help your daughter if she were to ever develop her own.

Nope, that's not it at all. I would always be available to help anyone I care about. It's important to not stop loving someone just because they're going down the wrong path. I disagree with conservatives who disown their children because they're gay or what have you. I try to learn from the parable of the prodigal son.

Originally Posted by Garret

The biggest problem here , and the reason why you will never change your mind (which very few people ever do ) is you are being selfish. You don't care how making prostitution legal would help others, or how many deaths/rapes it would prevent. You will defend where you stand to the very last, even if it would mean the death of 500 innocent people this year alone, simply because you think it is 'icky', and because your belief doesn't allow it.

I'm repeating myself yet again but I am not going to condone something that I know is wrong. If we can eradicate it completely in its legal and illegal forms then it would help more people than simply legalizing it everywhere. Why does it make me such a bad person to strive for the best? Studies have shown that people in the legal sex industry (including erotic dancers) are statistically much more likely to be the victim of abuse or sexual crimes because of their job. I've only perused studies done in America, but I still urge others to do so as well. Legalizing prostitution won't make that problem of violence and abuse toward sex workers go away because it already exists where such professions are allowed. The only way to make those sort of crimes disappear is to outlaw the profession entirely and weed out those who do it illegally.

Originally Posted by Garret

That would be like Atheist saying "hey, religion and church are against my morals and I do not agree with them, therefore they should not be allowed even though on a logical level I have no problem with it and may help others and the community.". So then all of a sudden, your religion is outlawed, and illegal. How would you feel about that? To all of a sudden not have the freedom to follow your religion, all simply because the idea was 'icky' in someone's mind.

Interesting point. (Can we stop with the "icky" already though?) The anti-prostitution support does not come solely from the religious populace. A more than significant amount of people oppose prostitution on moral beliefs not tied to any religion. There are many states where the majority of voters are liberal and yet prostitution is still only legal in one of them. There are places in the world where people are not allowed to practice religion by law. Of course it would be a drag for me, but I'd still continue to worship. It's unlikely that an officer of the law would feel compelled to arrest me since the way I worship has a negligible effect on my community and does not have any sort of negative impact. Or maybe I would get arrested. It happens in China even today. It's happened many places within the last 100 years. It happened to the apostles. I would feel burdened, but not so much that I would regret my faith.

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Lets just replace a word now

"hey, legal prostitution and sex are against my morals and I do not agree with them, therefore they should not be allowed even though on a logical level I have no problem with it and may help others and the community."

Wow, by just changing two subject words, I changed it from something that is against you (making church and religion illegal), into a sentence that is almost exactly what you are stating (making prostitution illegal). I bet the original sentence sounded pretty stupid to you and any other religious people, yet that is almost exactly what you are saying to us.

I have problems with both sentences actually. And the two word switcheroo isn't all that convincing an argument either. I can turn something from normal to silly with only one word change. Behold my awesomeness... "Candy tastes good." vs. "Poop tastes good."

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What if your daughter got raped by some drunken guy, because he had an itch in his pants and could not pick up a girl, so he see's your daughter walking home from a friends place near a dark alley, and in his drunken mind, decides to have fun with her. Had prostitution been legal, he could have paid some woman for the fun and been done. She would have gone home safe, your daughter would have gone home safe, and Uncle Sam would have an extra $10 in his wallet. Sure, it probably won't be the exact case with your daughter, but I bet that scenario has happened more than once, resulting in the rape of some innocent girl somewhere in the world, and many more like it.

Rape is a predatory crime. You cannot make the assumption that all rapists, or even a majority of them, would use prostitutes as an outlet for their sexual desires. Nevada is the 35th largest state and has the 33rd most rapes. Shouldn't Nevada exhibit less rapes per capita instead of slightly more?

Originally Posted by Acacia

You seem intelligent if not stubbornly religious (nothing personal), so I'm just going to assume that you'll say "no, it's no possible." So then, rather than making the act illegal, wouldn't it be better to legalize it? (the 'lesser of two evils' so to speak?) A lot of things would be better; this isn't some sort of hypothesis based on what-ifs, we've already seen the positive effects of legalizing prostitution in many other countries, right?

I'd prefer people wouldn't make assumptions, but you actually got me right. No, I don't think society will ever completely get rid of prostitution, even if it tries to. At the same time I don't think that should have the most bearing on what we decide to legalize. How could you apply that argument to murder, stealing, or other crimes? It's a never ending battle, but that's exactly how it is for most crimes. By focusing on certain crimes we can make a positive impact even if we don't squelch it out completely. I applaud those successes. We have one state from which to draw information about the benefits of prostitution and at this point it isn't a slam dunk so to speak.

Originally Posted by Acacia

Why is there such a negative feeling with sex/sex before marriage? I'm not sexually active person myself, but I honestly don't see what the big deal is; why would providing sex for cash (and health care and tax cuts!) worse than something like modeling? I understand that it's a precious and sacred thing to many, but not everyone feels like that, right? I mean, what gives you the right to preach and control if you can't back-up your ideas with facts and logic and instead fall back to your gut instinct, what 'you feel is right'?

From the Christian standpoint there shouldn't be a negative sentiment towards sex. Christians who feel that way or spread that message are ones that don't understand their faith. To a Christian, sex is supposed to be a beautiful thing meant to be shared by husband and wife. My feelings on premarital sex are purely guided by my faith. I don't expect or demand that others live by my standards in that regard. My feelings on prostitution however are guided by both my faith and my instinctual human understanding. Here's some facts: An overwhelming amount of people would be unhappy if a loved one became involved in prostitution. This is a basic human reaction with or without religious guidance. Logically we all want the best for ourselves and the people we know and love. Prostitution is never part of that equation. Is that enough to create a law? Well, we aren't supposed to interfere with free will unless we feel it is harmful to people. Myself and others feel that harm indeed occurs thus we can set up laws to prevent it. Another group sees no harm being done and feels prostitution should be protected by law.

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Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Well, we aren't supposed to interfere with free will unless we feel it is harmful to people. Myself and others feel that harm indeed occurs thus we can set up laws to prevent it. Another group sees no harm being done and feels prostitution should be protected by law.

And guess what buddy? Most of our laws...oddly enough...stem from religious settlers. I have no idea why, but prostitution is the only crime in the US right now that is only illegal because it could 'hurt' someone's feelings if someone they cared about became a prostitute.

Your 'harm' that you talk about is someone doing something that doesn't even INVOLVE you, making a choice on how they work. That is selfish, and by god, idiotic.

While we are at it. How about we target another demographic Killerpinapple. Every adult has sexual urges...the urge to procreate, if you will. Well, let's say that someone is so emotionally sheltered, has an odd quirk about them, or for the longest time, even though he has done his best to be a good person...he just can not find anyone to have sex with him.

Let's also say that this guy has a track record of being a nice guy, but dag-gonnit...every female around him is only into the 'wifebeating' kind of guy. This guy is at his wits end...he can't find a girl, he can't even derive pleasure from strokin the bishop. Why should those who are socially incapable, or overall not that attractive, be deprived from doing a basic human act? Sure, he has to pay for it, but in the end he finally is satisfied, and perhaps helps out his self-esteem/social outlook on life.

And ya know what twinkle-toes? The majority of people who would use legalized protitution would fit under this category. Does that make them a bad person? In your eyes, yes it would. Despite the fact that said gentleman above did nothing to harm himself, or the prostitute he payed, he is still a bad person in your book, deserving of going to hell because he didn't want to suffer under the image that your god made for him.

So...Is it in your beliefs that a man, or a woman, should go without having sex because they can not find a suitable mate? That, try as they might, they can not find a wife or husband, so that deems them unworthy of having sex? That's what I hate most about people who are religious and have faith. No matter how nice they come off, they ALWAYS fucking make themselves look to be better than everyone else in the world.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Wait a sec? We all know prostitution is undesirable, I don't want to let people do it, and that makes me selfish? I'd be a hypocrite if I condoned an action that I knew was wrong. And the politicians and voters who decided to outlaw prostitution in 49 states didn't do so ONLY because the act hurts the feelings of people not even involved.

On the other hand, I'm totally okay with you thinking my stance on prostitution is idiotic if you also believe that all laws that prevent people from doing things that don't directly hurt others are idiotic. I guess that would include stuff like drug abuse and suicide. Your answer won't change my beliefs, but there'd be no point arguing if you said yes.

I'm not sure I trust your instinct that most people who pay strangers for sex are upstanding citizens who have extreme difficultly getting into a loving relationship with a woman. I'd actually like to learn more if you can provide some studies or statistics...but it wouldn't sway my opinion. Who is saying that having sex is a right? It's a basic human urge, like the desire to be accepted and loved, the desire to become wealthy, etc. Saying that people are entitled to have sex one way or the other doesn't sound like judgement based on factual evidence or logic. We aren't talking about breathing and eating.

Originally Posted by Grail

That's what I hate most about people who are religious and have faith. No matter how nice they come off, they ALWAYS fucking make themselves look to be better than everyone else in the world.

I'm pretty religious and have a good amount of faith...but it really doesn't seem like I'm coming off as a nice guy in this topic. Perhaps in other circles people perceive me as a nice guy, but that's their perception. I'm not trying to make myself look great compared to other people. Real Christians are a humble sort of folk. Don't let the fake ones ruin it for the rest of us.

One last question...Twinkle toes?

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Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Wait a sec? We all know prostitution is undesirable.

Wait, we do? Because I think the large majority of us here are saying there's nothing wrong with is.

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I'd be a hypocrite if I condoned an action that I knew was wrong.

And you'd be a fucking ignorant prick if you said what is wrong for you is wrong for everyone.

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And the politicians and voters who decided to outlaw prostitution in 49 states didn't do so ONLY because the act hurts the feelings of people not even involved.

No, they did it because they were reactionary and it was a bad decision. These are also the same people who voted for prohibition.

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On the other hand, I'm totally okay with you thinking my stance on prostitution is idiotic if you also believe that all laws that prevent people from doing things that don't directly hurt others are idiotic.

They are. That's the point.

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I'm not sure I trust your instinct that most people who pay strangers for sex are upstanding citizens who have extreme difficultly getting into a loving relationship with a woman. I'd actually like to learn more if you can provide some studies or statistics...but it wouldn't sway my opinion.

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I'd actually like to learn more if you can provide some studies or statistics...but it wouldn't sway my opinion.

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I'd actually like to learn more if you can provide some studies or statistics...but it wouldn't sway my opinion.

Do you even begin to realise how ignorant you sound when you say that? And for the record, go read Four Hundred Thousand Swedish Perverts by Don Kulick for your stats that WON'T SWAY YOUR OPINION, as you've decided BEFORE EVER READING THEM. God, go fuck yourself.

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I'm pretty religious and have a good amount of faith...but it really doesn't seem like I'm coming off as a nice guy in this topic. Perhaps in other circles people perceive me as a nice guy, but that's their perception. I'm not trying to make myself look great compared to other people. Real Christians are a humble sort of folk. Don't let the fake ones ruin it for the rest of us.

You realise that right now, you're the guy ruining it for the rest of them.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

You realise that right now, you're the guy ruining it for the rest of them.

I suppose he assumes that he looks pretty good when compared with LordsSword, but honestly... I'm not sure just how great the differences are.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Deni just summed up about everything that I had to say about your last post, Pineapple.

Most laws that are still in effect today, had been instituted back ages ago. Times change, people change, morals change.

A fine example would be that now instead of sacrificing a goat to appease your god, all you have to do is believe in him and pray. Back in the day sacrificing goats/chickens was a common thing, now...fuck...PETA would be on your ass faster than a gay man with a ticket to the ass parade.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Soluzar

I suppose he assumes that he looks pretty good when compared with LordsSword, but honestly... I'm not sure just how great the differences are.

He doesn't have a quote from the bible after every sentance?

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Who is saying that having sex is a right?

Also...you have got to be fucking KIDDING ME. We can have sex with whomever we desire, as long as they are conscenting to it as well. We have the right to have sex with others who are willing to agree to have sex with us as well.

What we DON'T have a right to do is have sex with those who do not fully understand what they are getting into, and we do not have the right to force ourselves onto someone who isn't willing to do so.

If you say that we don't have a right to have sex, well, take away people who need machines to help themselves breath, or take away the jobs people have that help the mentally handicap eat right. Some people need help eating, breathing, and pooping right...some people need help having sex. What the hell is your problem?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

The large majority of us are saying prostitution is okay. But most of us have also said that ideally they wouldn't want it their loved ones to be involved. To me this indicates that there is something wrong with it. This isn't the major point to of contention but rather whether or not people have the right to do whatever they want to themselves.

I haven't said that everything I think is wrong is wrong for everyone. I've even pointed instances where I don't expect people to live by my standards of right and wrong.

The sad story of someone who can't get sex for free doesn't change my view point. Since it doesn't affect my opinion then stats and studies about that specific situation will do nothing other than to satisfy my curiosity. Triple quoting aside, I'm not sure Denicalis, if you were aware that I wasn't referring to statistics in general. It would be nice if someone acknowledged the stats I mentioned regarding violence within the legal sex industry or rapes per capita in Nevada. But if not, no biggie.

I don't see how I'm "ruining it for them". You guys disagree with me. Fine. I'm not attacking anyone. I'm not misrepresenting my faith or the people who share my political views. My viewpoint stands at extreme odds to most of yours but I'm not trying to convince or convert anyone. I just explain where people like myself are coming from. It's totally fine to reject my stance. I'd prefer not to be insulted, named called, or told to F myself...but if that's what you want to do then by all means go for it. It's okay with me.

There seems to be a lot of discontent toward lawmakers past and present. While I share that sentiment from time to time I can't help but acknowledge that most of these people understand politics and law much more than me. It's possible that most or all of you are smarter than I and perhaps as smart or smarter than the lawmakers in question. Should that be the case then there would be an abundance of capable people in society sharing your viewpoint. In a matter of years we will see changes made to the law that reflects the overwhelming sentiments expressed in this thread. In any case it's pointless to yell at me for laws whose creation I had nothing to do with.

Many well thought arguments have been made here, but this is still just a forum for people who like video game music. Several of you claim that current laws are stupid and created by stupid people, but this does little to affect my opinion. Why should I value the opinions of people here more than those who earned there way into a legislative position? I don't agree with every law on the books but that doesn't cause me to think someone is an idiot for not sharing my opinion. There just isn't an infallible argument to inform the world that prostitution should and must be legal. Hence all the controversy. Everyone is entitled to think people like me are idiots, but that doesn't it make it true.

Sex is a right? Not really, but I understand what you're getting at Grail. I gather you are very passionate about sex to compare it to eating and breathing. While sex certainly is intensely enjoyable, I can't put it on the same level as energy consumption and oxygen respiration in terms of necessity.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The stats for rape in Nevada are with very constrained laws concerning prostitution across an entire state wherein the total amount of brothels are seriously constrained in their placement and their usage. Go look up the rape totals in Holland, and then expect us to pay attention to you.

And yes, a lot of us here like game music. But a lot of us have, for instance, a Masters and working towards a phD in the social sciences. Some of us have a degree in law. Some of us have degrees in history.

There should NEVER be an instance wherein your opinion of right and wrong weighs heavily over the people, because you are a self-righteous, moralistic little prick. The point is that no one should mandate sexuality or morality ever. And you disagree with that, because you want people to do things the way you want them done, instead of letting them decide for themselves.

Don't want your daughter sucking cock for money? Raise her so she won't. Welcome to a free country. A law where if that little girl grows up, decides she wants to suck dick for money, and goes to prison for it when she's hurt absolutely no one but her daddy's precious feelings? The laws gird too tightly, sir. You have -no- right to dictate law. And the people who did were overstepping their bounds as governors. But you're right, who are we to know better than law makers?

Oh right, that's the purpose of an informed populace. To question their leaders. If they act in a way unbecoming to our beliefs of what a nation should be, we oust them, have them replaced. The leaders fear the people, not vice versa. The joy of democracy. Some laws are stupid. Up until quite recently a woman couldn't vote, a black man couldn't go to school white men. Should we not have overturned those? Were those just and righteous laws, sir? The men who made those laws were the same men who made laws about prostitution and gay marriage. So again, sir, go fuck your half-witted arguments.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm not going to dismiss that statistics in Nevada so easily. Because of it's location it has greater implications for U.S. policy. But then again, I already said it's no biggie if nobody here pays attention to me.

I've stipulated that I can't assume anybody disagreeing with me is less intelligent than I. They could just as well be smarter than me or even smart enough to one day be in a position to affect law. It would be pretty cool to get the insight of a practicing lawyer especially if they specialize in this particular subject.

Originally Posted by Killerpineapple

there would be an abundance of capable people in society sharing your viewpoint. In a matter of years we will see changes made to the law that reflects the overwhelming sentiments expressed in this thread.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

that's the purpose of an informed populace. To question their leaders. If they act in a way unbecoming to our beliefs of what a nation should be, we oust them, have them replaced. The leaders fear the people, not vice versa. The joy of democracy.

I feel like you're saying the same thing I did.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Some laws are stupid. Up until quite recently a woman couldn't vote, a black man couldn't go to school white men. Should we not have overturned those? Were those just and righteous laws, sir? The men who made those laws were the same men who made laws about prostitution and gay marriage. So again, sir, go fuck your half-witted arguments.

Just because you identify some stupid laws of the past doesn't automatically qualify you to pass judgement on current ones. You cannot say conclusively that the politicians instrumental in banning segregation and passing women's suffrage would likewise embrace gay marriage, prostitution, and snorting cocaine amongst other things. I suppose they could have but just decided it wasn't plausible or worth the effort, but I'm not going to assume that either. I also find it hard to believe that the men who prevented women from voting had their hand in all the major laws you disagree with today. Some evidence of such would be appreciated. Or perhaps you are generalizing "types of men" which isn't convincing either because stereotyping is not a legitimate argument.

Arguments that indicate guilt by association are fundamentally flawed as well. You can't say "Old white guy (or ones like him) prevented women from voting. Same guy is preventing prostitution. Therefore prostitution should be legal." You could use that method of thinking to discredit any law, good or bad.

I'm sure I don't present the best arguments, but that doesn't mean I have to accept other bad ones. Either way, thanks for calling me 'sir'.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You don't present good arguments, and you completely miss the point of those of others.

I didn't say individual men created the same laws, I said they were created in the same eras, and yet we overturned them for being stupid. As such, your argument that lawmakers know more than the society they serve is retarded. Your long winded reply makes my point about you, though. You'll make one argument, and then you turn around and think that you can change your argument point because its been proven wrong.

I'm not saying they would 'embrace' anything, I'm saying what I've said all along, a free society does not create laws that legislate morality. Your right to choose your own path, so long as it does not damage others, is absolutely your own choice. That is freedom, as I've held this entire time. But you feel free to keep flailing in your little cage.

I was speaking idiomatically.