Smoking bans: Good or bad?

Originally Posted by Devo

So since it doesn't cause cancer according to you they should be allowed to just blow smoke in our face?

I highly doubt any smoker has ever approached you specifically and blown smoke in your face just to spite you. I think you'll find that if you get off your straw-man argument you'll find that smokers are (generally) by far some of the most accomdating people with their disgusting habit. This is partly due to the fact that so many smokers no longer enjoy their habit and want to quit and certainly don't want anyone else suffering on their part.

However, this law has nothing to do with that. Nice non-sequitor.

Quote:

In California it is regarded as a Toxic Air Contaminent:

Anything is a contaminent in large doses. Hell, injest too much calcium and your organs will turn rock-hard(calcify) and you'll die. There is absolutely nothing benign in this universe. You're simple not inhaling enough smoke for it to do any kind of significant damage.

BTW, the only reason that second-hand smoke is on the EPA's list of CLASS A carcinogens is due to their study that they conducted in 1993. Ironic that it wasn't removed from the list after the study was vacated. I have no clue why where this California business comes from however, so I'll refrain from addressing it specifically. What you quoted said too little to debunk, anyway. It basically listed what it had, refraining from listing concentrations. Amounts are very important here.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Devo

I'm sorry smokers are some of least accomidating when it comes to their habit because they don't wait till they get home or go outside. Maybe you live in a great place where smokers actually follow the rules.

You fail to realize that you choose to go into a place where they were already smoking. If you didn't want that, why go? And I meant accomodating as in, they won't blow smoke in your face, which is what you were talking about.

Quote:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/toxics/ets/etsqa.pdf

Ahahahah did you actually read that before you linked it?

I was speaking idiomatically.

So, what, you're complaining about outdoor smoke now?

*laughs*

And I'm sorry a bunch of snot-nosed brats were rude to you, but I was under the impression we were talking about your typical smoker that one would encounter.

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I have no idea what you're trying to argue anymore, and I don't think you know either.

FELIPE NO

I'm allergic to cigarette smoke, so to me it is a very good thing.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by ieatjackets

I think the greatest problem with second-hand smoke bans is the attitude of the people supporting them. "I don't smoke, so I don't mind the ban." WTF, world? Are you so antagonistic against smokers that you don't care about their civil rights anymore? And that's what this boils down to, not public good, it's a huge infringement of civil rights.

What the hell are you going on about civil rights for? Smoking is not any sort of civil right. This isn't even a civil rights issue.

Now apart from that, your attitude bothers me. You don't seem to give a crap about anybody else and the potential for harm to come to them through your filthy habit. I don't have a problem with you smoking. I do have a problem with you smoking around me.

If you, Eleo, and whoever else want to continue to ignore proven facts, especially something like what Arainach has posted, then go ahead and do so. But don't act so surprised when nobody else wants to inhale:

Acetaldehyde
Acetic Acid
Acetone
Acetylene
Acrolein
Acrylonitrile
Aluminum
Aminobiphenyl
Ammonia
Anabasine
Anatabine
Aniline
Anthracenes
Argon
Arsenic
Benz(a)anthracene
Benzene
Benzo(a)pyrene
Benzo(b)fluoranthene
Benzo(j)fluoranthene
Butadiene
Butane
Cadmium
Campesterol
Carbon Monoxide
Carbon Sulfide
Catechol
Chromium
Chrysene
Copper
Crotonaldehyde
Cyclotenes
DDT/Dieldrin
Dibenz(a,h)acridine
Dibenz(a,h)anthracene
Dibenz(a,j)acridine
Dibenzo(a,l)pyrene
Dibenzo(c,g)carbazole
Dimenthylhydrazine
Ethanol
Ethylcarbamate
Fluoranthenes
Fluorenes
Formaldehyde
Formic Acid
Furan
Glycerol
Hexamine
Hydrazine
Hydrogen cyanide
Hydrogen sulfide
Indeno(1,2,3-c,d)pyrene
Indole
Isoprene
Lead
Limonine
Linoleic Acid
Linolenic Acid
Magnesium
Mercury
Methane
Methanol
Methyl formate
Methylamineethylchrysene
Methylamine
Methylnitrosamino
Methylpyrrolidine
n-Nitrosoanabasine
n-Nitrosodiethanolamine
n-Nitrosodiethylamine
n-nitrosodimethylamine
n-Nitrosoethyl methylamine
n-Nitrosomorpholine
n-Nitrosopyrrolidine
Naphthalene
Naphthylamine
Neophytadienes
Nickel
Nicotine
Nitric Oxide
Nitrobenzene
Nitropropane
Nitrosamines
Nitrosonomicotine
Nitrous oxide phenols
Nomicotine
Palmitic acid
Phenanthrenes
Phenol
Picolines
Polonium-210
Propionic acid
Pyrenes
Pyrrolidine
Quinoline
Quinones
Scopoletin
Sitosterol
Skatole
Solanesol
Stearic acid
Stigmasterol
Styrene
Titanium
Toluene
Toluidine
Urethane
Vinyl Chloride
Vinylpyridine
URL

into our lungs against our will.

Plus about 4,000 more chemicals. Most people like to avoid unecesarily inhaling carcinogens and other detrimental chemicals straight into our lungs.

So excuse us for expecting you not to infringe on our rights. Me choosing to shoot Lysol up my nose, as you mentioned, is far different from me having to inhale 4,000+ toxic chemicals because you don't want to be so inconvienienced as to have and wait until you get outside or get home to smoke.

And on top of just standard health hazards, you are posing a DEADLY risk to people with asthma, and to a slightly lesser extent, those with severe allergies.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm glad you didn't really read my post.

Nice useless list of chemicals. You want me to list the chemicals released by burning gasoline in your car? Or the chemicals released into the air from various kinds of deodorants? Yeah, ok, thanks.

Smoking isn't a civil right? Damn.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by ieatjackets

I'm glad you didn't really read my post.

Nice useless list of chemicals. You want me to list the chemicals released by burning gasoline in your car? Or the chemicals released into the air from various kinds of deodorants? Yeah, ok, thanks.

Smoking isn't a civil right? Damn.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=civil%20right

http://www.nps.gov/malu/documents/amend13.htm

http://www.nps.gov/malu/documents/amend14.htm

http://www.nps.gov/malu/documents/amend15.htm

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/...w/civilr19.htm

Yeah, sorry, doesn't look like smoking is covered there.

Civil rights deal with social and economic equality.

Useless? Those are about 100 of the worst ones in cigarrete smoke. Most of which either cause cancer or birth defects. There's over 4,000 total. Thanks for ignoring 20+ years of research.

You people are some of the most selfish people on the planet. Too fucking conceited to give a shit about the health of people around you, just so you don't have to be inconvienienced.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Since Eleo and now ieatjackets continue to post nonsense without Acknowledging the research, I'll keep reposting this until something happens:

Originally Posted by Arainach

Let's start with the Centre for Disease Control, arguably the most respected authority worldwide on diseases and other health issues:

Link - 66 Results for Secondhand Smoke. All worth reading.
Link - 556 reports on Environmental Tobacco Smoke (the current medical term as best as I can tell)

On to the American Heart Association:

http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4521
http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=1213
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/96/9/3243


The Mayo Clinic, possibly the highest-regarded medical care instutition in the U.S:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sec...-smoke/CC00023

There's just the basics.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Nothing will happen. They just want to ignore proven research and facts so they can have the peace of mind of not realizing they are screwing everybody around them over.

How ya doing, buddy?

(Not having read the previous posts, Ill just say this

I do not smoke.

I do not care that others smoke.

People in this country (the USA) are becoming a society of pussies and weaklings. (Regarding a lot more than simple smoking bans)

Why impose a smoking ban: let these idiots kill themselves off. Hell, put more chemicals in cigarettes to speed the process up.


-- and in terms of someone like DeadHorse who is allergic to smoke, (o.O), then i can see how the bans would help; or i could just say avoid the smoking section at a restaurant. *shrugs*

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Lipid

(Not having read the previous posts, Ill just say this

I do not smoke.

I do not care that others smoke.

People in this country (the USA) are becoming a society of pussies and weaklings. (Regarding a lot more than simple smoking bans)

Why impose a smoking ban: let these idiots kill themselves off. Hell, put more chemicals in cigarettes to speed the process up.

They can kill themselves off if they want. That's their choice. And nobody is banning smoking. They are banning smoking in public places so that people who do choose not to screw over their health aren't having others do exactly that to them.

Quite frankly I think anybody now who picks up the habit has to be a total moron. In the past? Sure, I can understand that. Wasn't much information about the numerous carcinogens present in cigarettes. But now? Yep. Agreed. Add more chemicals to get rid of the idiots in society.

FELIPE NO

I know plenty of extremely intelligent people who smoke, among other things. One of them is literally a genius, in fact.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Nothing will happen. They just want to ignore proven research and facts so they can have the peace of mind of not realizing they are screwing everybody around them over.

Since I am not even a smoker, I'd like to know, how the fuck am I screwing everybody around me over? By arguing on a forum?

Quote:

Since Eleo and now ieatjackets continue to post nonsense without Acknowledging the research, I'll keep reposting this until something happens:

Actually I think we've touched upon everything to not have to refute those links specifically.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Eleo

Since I am not even a smoker, I'd like to know, how the fuck am I screwing everybody around me over? By arguing on a forum?

Apologies. Assumed incorrectly.

The point still stands though, for most people.

You can also be a genius about certain things but a complete moron about other things. Smokers (at least ones that picked up the habit in recent years) are devoid in the common sense department, and nothings going to convince me other wise. Hell, it doesn't even take common sense to realize that inhaling several hundred carcinogens into your lungs is going to end up killing you.

And you've touched on everything just by ignoring facts that those links prove.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Remember those ladies in the department stores who used to walk up and spray people with cologne before asking permission? Well guess what. Cosmetic counter employees are now subject to immediate termination for doing that. Why? Because it makes the "sprayee" fucking stink and the person holding the spray has NO RIGHT to inflict an unwanted substance or smell or anything else onto another human being. The same is true for cigarette smoke.

When I used to smoke I truly did not realize how much that crap makes you stink. I used to think that non-smokers were just making an issue out of nothing. But a year or so after I quit, my nose mysteriously started working again and I realized (with embarrassment) that people were telling the truth. The shit stinks to high heaven and makes you smell just...dirty. I don't choose to smell like that anymore and no one has the right to make me. I shouldn't have to walk through a cloud of cheap cologne just because I'm in the mall, and I shouldn't have to walk through a cloud of putrid, noxious smoke to get into my building every morning and have that stench wafting off of my hair for the rest of the day.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Not being able to smoke indoors isn't even that big of a restriction.

Smokers should be glad that they're even allowed to smoke.

It really does suck for non smokers to have to second hand smoke every day when out...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

You can also be a genius about certain things but a complete moron about other things. Smokers (at least ones that picked up the habit in recent years) are devoid in the common sense department, and nothings going to convince me other wise. Hell, it doesn't even take common sense to realize that inhaling several hundred carcinogens into your lungs is going to end up killing you.

Most of the smokers I know picked up the habit at a young age. I know I had started when I was 16. And it really had nothing to do with smoking ads on the back of magazines and it really had nothing to do with anti-smoking ads on television. It was about my friends doing it, it was about it calming my nerves during a very stressful time in my life, and it was about growing addiction. But psychological/financial factors play a huge role in addiction.

Nevertheless, people have different outlooks on life. If one doesn't care for their health, that's his or her choice. It doesn't make them moronic because it's their personal choice, and it doesn't concern you.

Originally Posted by pandaswan

Smokers should be glad that they're even allowed to smoke.

Uh what? How would it be fair to illegalize cigarette smoking?

Originally Posted by pandaswan

It really does suck for non smokers to have to second hand smoke every day when out...

When? Smoking is banned indoors pretty much everywhere but restaurants in certain cities/states.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I shouldn't have to walk through a cloud of cheap cologne just because I'm in the mall, and I shouldn't have to walk through a cloud of putrid, noxious smoke to get into my building every morning and have that stench wafting off of my hair for the rest of the day.

I'm sorry, but cigarette smoke simply does not stick to you so easily or so permanently, especially if you're outside and merely walking through it. The only time I've ever had smoke stick to me was while smoking indoors. If what you said were the case, a substantial number of people inside any given building would smell like cigarette smoke regularly, because there's almost always someone or another outside of a building smoking.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

ok, well I'm assuming that smokers enjoy 2nd hand smoking.
so let's say...

if you had a neighbor that burns rubber in his/her backyard everyday, and the smell always gets in ur house, would you be pissed off?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Yes, I would. But I'd own my house.

Similarly, if I did the same thing to him, I'd expect him to get pissed.

But if I were moseying down the sidewalk and smelled burned rubber, I'd have nothing to say about it, because I do not own the block, or the air.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Eleo

I'm sorry, but cigarette smoke simply does not stick to you so easily or so permanently, especially if you're outside and merely walking through it. The only time I've ever had smoke stick to me was while smoking indoors. If what you said were the case, a substantial number of people inside any given building would smell like cigarette smoke regularly, because there's almost always someone or another outside of a building smoking.

Eleo, I don't want to turn this into a racial thing, but you're black. White people have extremely porous hair. Don't tell me you've never heard any black people say that white people smell like wet dogs when they get wet. There's even a book called, "Why Do White People Smell Like Wet Dogs When They Come Out of the Rain?" It's basically a book that explains black and white stereotypes.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/096...lance&n=283155

My point is that white people - ESPECIALLY white people with naturally blonde or red hair - pick up smells and hold them. If I go into a pizza restaurant, for example, I'll smell like pizza until I take a shower. Cigarette smoke clings to me. If I walk through a cloud of it in the morning, I'll still smell it in my hair that night, and not just faintly, either.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

Yes, I would. But I'd own my house.

Last I checked I "own" my body.

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So don't walk it through my smoke and exercise true control of it. You make it seem like smokers are going out of their way to confront you and blow smoke right into your face.

I mean, what, because you own your body you can legally do whatever you want?

"Can't arrest me, I own my body, you're not allowed to touch it."

"So what if I'm in your house? I own my body, I can do what I want!"

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Eleo, I don't want to turn this into a racial thing, but you're black. White people have extremely porous hair. Don't tell me you've never heard any black people say that white people smell like wet dogs when they get wet. There's even a book called, "Why Do White People Smell Like Wet Dogs When They Come Out of the Rain?" It's basically a book that explains black and white stereotypes.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/096...lance&n=283155

My point is that white people - ESPECIALLY white people with naturally blonde or red hair - pick up smells and hold them. If I go into a pizza restaurant, for example, I'll smell like pizza until I take a shower. Cigarette smoke clings to me. If I walk through a cloud of it in the morning, I'll still smell it in my hair that night, and not just faintly, either.

Like I said earlier, I've never found a non-smoker to smell like smoke to demonstrate.

Similarly, never found a wet white person to smell like a wet dog. I thought that was just a dumb stereotype; kind of like niggers stealing TVs.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well I'm not certain if your nose is damaged, you're lying, or it's just a ridiculously improbable coincidence, but the smoke smell definately does linger on nonsmokers who have been around people smoking.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Eleo

You make it seem like smokers are going out of their way to confront you and blow smoke right into your face.

no, but smoke drifts easily, sometimes if a place like a coffee shop decided not to use AC, and opened their windows... all the smoke outside would drift in, and everyone would have to smell it.. You don't do it intentionally but it happens anyway.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm sorry but people who say second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer are just in denial. One thing I've noticed about smokers is that they are in denial because they can't stop smoking, so they just make up whatever BS to make themselves feel better. As for the non-smokers that actually use the argument that second hand smoke hasn't been proven to cause cancer, use your brains. You can taking in the same cancer causing chemicals, just not directly into your mouth and lungs. But you are taking them in.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Eleo

I'm sorry, but cigarette smoke simply does not stick to you so easily or so permanently, especially if you're outside and merely walking through it. The only time I've ever had smoke stick to me was while smoking indoors. If what you said were the case, a substantial number of people inside any given building would smell like cigarette smoke regularly, because there's almost always someone or another outside of a building smoking.

Oh, it most certainly does. I walked by someone smoking on the street. Walked by, so that means I spent less than a second next to a smoker outdoors, and I smelled it on my clothes after walking 3 blocks back to my place.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?