[:plant:] The GFF Game Club [Now Playing: Max Payne] Now with less spoiler tags

Finished the game tonight. Aside from the combat (which blows hard) and the controls being a little clunky in general, the game is still pretty neat and holds up fairly well.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

OK, so here we are at the last day, so how did everyone get on? Who decided to give ICO a go and where did you get to? Did anyone not finish?

Since the discussion is now open there's no further need for spoiler tags when talking about ICO.

If you haven't already I'd recommend jumping back a few posts and taking a look at Soluzar and Shin's interesting posts about the game's general premise. I think Shin is definitely onto something with his point about the fact that a lot of it is open to interpretation. I'm certainly interested to see what other people made of it.

As for the game's mechanics, I didn't find the combat a problem at all. It wasn't as fun as the exploration of the castle and puzzle solving aspect, but I had no real issue with it. The aspect of the game that took the most getting used to for me was actually firing up a PS2 game on my big HDTV. It took a little while for my eyes to adjust to the rather pixelated nature of everything. At first I wasn't sure I was going to be able to deal with it, but I'm glad I stuck with it because once my eyes adjusted I could appreciate how beautiful a game it is really, especially the animation. In fact I'd argue that the animation in ICO could best a lot of current-gen games as it's the subtleties in the animation that really sells the relationship between Ico and Yorda.

Q might not like me making this comparison, but I actually felt reminded of Uncharted when playing through some of the climbing sections as much like Naughty Dog's game I found they had that same sense of someone pushing the limits of their capabilities when clambering about, it never felt like it was particularly easy, which I think sells the engagement with environment and makes for a more relatable character.

As something of a side-note we're now in the process of deciding upon the next game, so if you have any suggestions feel free to voice them now.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Shin

Spoiler:

I think the basic plot premise is a little clearer once you take Shadow of the Colossus into account. At the end of that, the hero goes all demonic, the bird comes back to life and you see her with a kid with horns (If memory serves), implying that Ico is in some way descended from the SotC kids. One would assume therefore that kids with horns are direct descendents of the SotC people and therefore, have some magnitude of that demonic power.

Yeah, I think you're right about that. It's clear enough, and if memory serves a developer actually game out and said it in an interview after the game was released. It's cool how the two stories minimal though they are tie together in that way.

I just wonder if the next game, The Last Guardian, will have a similar link anywhere buried deep within.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

From what little I've seen of it, it looks like it'll be similarly ambiguous. You play a small kid who meets a big kitten-bird thing and that's about it. They'd be silly to shift from a working model and heavy exposition ain't their style.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Shin

From what little I've seen of it, it looks like it'll be similarly ambiguous. You play a small kid who meets a big kitten-bird thing and that's about it. They'd be silly to shift from a working model and heavy exposition ain't their style.

True... but then they wouldn't have to change the model to include a subtle link as was the case in SotC. That's something we have no way to know about until the finished product is with us. It could be connected, or it could be a completely new idea with no links to past work.

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That's always a possibilty. I think most people's expectation is that there'll be some form of link though so I'd be amazed not to see one, even if like SotC, it's just in the end credits. Maybe the kitten thing becomes a colossus and it's another prequel?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Moving right along. The next game we've got is :

Beyond Good and Evil

Ah, yes. The criminally overlooked game of last generation. Very easy to find if you're terrible and lack a copy. Omagnus has a steam link in his opening post, but here it is again for ease. Anyone's computer will run it. Beyond Good and Evil on Steam

Due date for this one is February 28th. More than enough time to polish this off.

-------------------------

Secondly, it should be noted that Ico discussion can and will continue up until that date. As soon as the next game is finished, we can turn the flow to that one. If you're going to discuss BG&E before the due date, remember to use spoilers.

Have fun, folks.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Holy crap. How did I never see this thread? Awesome idea, OP et al. I'll try and tackle Beyond Good & Evil. Never have beaten it in spite of the numerous times I've made it a ways in.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Cool! A game I own, but haven't started. That's fine by me! I always did think this one would be worth a look some day soon. I assume the PS2 version is decent enough? I notice you're linking to the Steam version, but unless it sucks hard on PS2 I will stick with what I've got.

I notice the title is the same as the English name for one of Nietzsche's books. I always wondered if that's significant to the story of the game in any way. I'm genuinely pleased by this selection, I would probably have looked to this game soon anyway.

How ya doing, buddy?

There is nothing "wrong" with any version, it's just slightly superior in terms of visuals or fidelity on one or the other.

If I had to suggest one, GCN would be my console choice. Steam is linked because it's dirt cheap and because it's the easiest way to get it if you don't own it.

By all means, play the PS2 version, it's hardly going to change anything.

I was speaking idiomatically.

BG&E is up with there with Psychonauts as a gem of a game that, sadly, went un-noticed by most gamers

All of the versions are fine. I've heard of lock-ups on the PS2, but I'm sure none of the other mediums are devoid of issues. I've always done PC and haven't had issues.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Feh. There's no physical copies of Beyond Good & Evil within 30 miles of where I live, and I don't like downloading games when I can own the disc.

FELIPE NO

I suppose this bumps BG&E up on my list of things to play. I needed to get to it sometime soon since Philia issued it as a Backloggery challenge, but I've been preoccupied by other things. Pretty sure I made it about halfway through the game back when it first came out, but that was so long ago I'll need to restart.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by GB

Feh. There's no physical copies of Beyond Good & Evil within 30 miles of where I live, and I don't like downloading games when I can own the disc.

Have you tried looking on Amazon (or any similar site that might be used for second hand sales)? I ordered a copy this very evening for a princely sum of £5 through Amazon, which is none too bad, and avoids the need of finding a copy in my local area (which would probably be near impossible).

Definitely good to see a few people already up for playing the next game, that's ace. Don't forget though, there's still open discussion on ICO right now, especially now that the spoiler tags can be ditched.

Gech: Will add you to the list on the front page. Pretty sure you don't, but do you have a backloggery page at all?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by OmagnusPrime

Have you tried looking on Amazon (or any similar site that might be used for second hand sales)? I ordered a copy this very evening for a princely sum of £5 through Amazon, which is none too bad, and avoids the need of finding a copy in my local area (which would probably be near impossible).

I thought about it, but by the time I would receive my copy, the play period would be halfway over.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I was looking for something new to play since the next big console release I'm getting isn't out until March, so this should fit the bill perfectly. Luckily I managed to find a new copy a few years back for $10, so I should be starting this relatively soon.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

ICO: Alright guys, WHO GOT THE MACE?

Seriously, who actually got it without looking it up for it? I would had ran past that room without looking closely. Ditto for that unsuspecting TREE. o.o'

When he (SD) was playing this game, I gave him a hint that there's something in that room and something to do with that tree. He spotted it (the different colored wall) first and saw the pushing animation on Ico when he ran against it. Eventually pushed at the right spot and got in. This strange room has a powered platform (like you do for the openings of the light beams) and a open top box at the top of the small steps. He ran about in it wondering what the hell its there for. It was the most amusing 10 minutes I had saw him play. He got in the open box and tried to get Yorda to CLIMB in.

He finally gave up and went outside and then remembered I gave him that other hint. That UNSUSPECTING tree... >.> He whacked at it and this strange ball came down from it. I told him that it was a "coconut" (I'm quoting from the guide here lol) and it won't explode like those bombs you typically pick up. He suddenly had the idea for what it was for and ran back in there lugging the thing.

I had NO IDEA that you could pull Yorda along while carrying it. I also had no idea that you can literally JUMP about with the thing. xD

Throwing that "coconut" in there took him 7 tries. All laughable and hilarious just all the same when that mace came flying in from the window above them. xD

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

And the lightsabre will the be there on a later playthrough in the JPN/PAL versions.

Truthfully, I never picked up the mace (or the sabre). The only extra I've done is the watermelon ending, which wasn't available since I was playing a fresh memory card with no clear file.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by GB

I thought about it, but by the time I would receive my copy, the play period would be halfway over.

I've found that delivery on services like Amazon's second hand stuff is incredibly quick. It shouldn't take more than a week really and that still gives you a couple of weeks to tackle a short-ish game (which is why we brought the deadline forward somewhat). Even if you didn't finish it in the time we've set it doesn't mean you have to give up on it. If you really don't fancy waiting, whilst you'd prefer a physical copy, the Steam copy really is very cheap.

Originally Posted by Philia

ICO: Alright guys, WHO GOT THE MACE?

Seriously, who actually got it without looking it up for it? I would had ran past that room without looking closely. Ditto for that unsuspecting TREE. o.o'

I got the mace without looking it up. I'd seen a comment somewhere about the fact that there was at least one miss-able area and so I had an eye out, which led to spotting the odd bit of wall in that room. I quickly got that you could pull on it, but it took me a little bit to realise it twisted. Once I'd done that I got in there, set the platform off and found the cup. It was a while before I found the ball and I only did so because I'd got to the point where I was basically hitting and grabbing everything in an attempt to see if anything happened (to my surprise hitting a random tree caused a ball to fall). I sort of twigged the ball in the cup thing and I think it only took me 3 attempts after that and then ta-da a mace.

Q: What's this watermelon ending you speak of?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

If you play a second playthrough on the PAL/NTSC, you get english subtitles for Yorda's speech, a number of fancy graphical filters and a second player can control Yorda around and even carry stuff. If only she'd been able to swing a sword, you could have played through the game as her while dragging Ico along.



Anyway, as well as those, on the second playthrough, when you read the beach, there will be a patch of watermelons by the cliff edge.

When you pick up and carry one of the large watermelons all the way to where Yorda is lying, you get a bonus ending.

YouTube Video

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Originally Posted by OmagnusPrime

I've found that delivery on services like Amazon's second hand stuff is incredibly quick. It shouldn't take more than a week really and that still gives you a couple of weeks to tackle a short-ish game (which is why we brought the deadline forward somewhat). Even if you didn't finish it in the time we've set it doesn't mean you have to give up on it.

That would only leave a week and a half until February 28th. Why did you guys set such a small amount of time aside for this one? It's around half the time set aside for Ico, which is notoriously short.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by OmagnusPrime

OK, so here we are at the last day, so how did everyone get on? Who decided to give ICO a go and where did you get to? Did anyone not finish?

I had finished the game once before, so I didn't feel as bad about not finishing it this time. Like you, I had a problem first of all with playing it on my HDTV, where everything looked like it had been smeared with vaseline. I feel like an ass saying it, but the presentation really lost a lot in the years since I last played it.

What really turned me off more than anything else, though, was the camera. In a game that wants to build so much upon the relationship between the boy and the girl, I shouldn't have to mess with switching from "immersion mode" to "puzzle mode" every time a minor puzzle comes up. But that's exactly what I felt like I had to do.

It was horribly jarring and made it seem like I was constantly struggling with the camera to keep it where I wanted it to go. I broke immersion so many times over that I finally just put it down. I was willing to give the puzzles and the combat the benefit of the doubt, but ultimately I couldn't forgive the game for that awful cinematic camera. It works as a way to show the scope of the environments, but to me it constantly felt like it was either getting in the way of my focus on the boy and girl, or it was focusing too much on the environment and not enough on their place in the environment. There was no sense of how to get from here to there, in other words, without a lot of trial and error.

That being said, it's still a game I respect, even if I don't enjoy it.




As for Beyond Good & Evil: looking forward to it. The last full playthrough I had was when the game first came out, and I remember missing one animal because I had reached a point of no return. Not this time!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Beyond Good & Evil? Awesome. I've got it for both GCN and PC [Steam], but I'll think I'll go with the latter. Just have to wait for Steam to re-download it, then I'm set! I'm definitely in this month.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Tritoch

That would only leave a week and a half until February 28th. Why did you guys set such a small amount of time aside for this one? It's around half the time set aside for Ico, which is notoriously short.

When there's a 'you have to wait as long as it takes for your Internet connection to download you a game' option, i.e. an insta-obtain option, I don't really think you can bitch at us for not taking into account the fact that you might want to ship in some copy. I've never owned or played this game and given I'm on Mac and therefore lack Steam support I'm purchasing a copy myself. If it leaves me not as much time as I might have if I had a copy in my hands right now, so be it, I don't see 2 weeks to complete what I've been told is an 8-10 hour game as that bad. We left ages for ICO because this idea was just getting off the ground, we didn't know what the right amount of padding was to give people, we didn't know how the discussion aspect would fare; now we have some idea of that stuff and so we've set what we consider to be a reasonable amount of time.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

... I didn't manage to finish it, mostly due to playing too much else and the time period right after extending the bridge in the waterfall room. Still, there was a lot more of an emotional connection to the game in general, although that may be due to an internal paradigm shift in how I experience media (films, books, games) than anything else. I also didn't have the issue that y'all seemed to have with looking at it on a big HD screen. Game's still gorgeous, and, while the character animation was generally superseded by the animation in SotC, it still seemed to work well.

I just wish I had gotten to experience anew the Yorda-less part toward the end again, if only because of said paradigm shift.

And I might not play through BG&E right now, but I'll be more than up for discussion once the time period is over. I played through the whole game at some point in the past 6 months or so back before there was news of the ON HOLD nature of the sequel.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?