Religion: What it means to you

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

What have you done except annoy people and give Christianity a bad name?

Since you are not a Christian you are in no position to judge my statements.
The option of the experiment I told you about is still open.

As I stated before I will accept biblical correction & retract my statements if I am in error.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

They swarm the globe and annoy the shit out of everyone who has an established faith.

As a practice of a biblical command to believers.
You ask me to abandon a practice of my faith to make you comfortable.
Acts 5:29-Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Wars are fought over bullshit like this. People DIE over such trivial crap.

No. People die because they react in judgment of others without knowlege and mercy.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

I was under the impression, by the way, that pride is a sin. You may want to consider that when preaching your tripe.

Show me a biblical verse to sustain your opinion.

Originally Posted by SuperNova

I have a hard time believing that the sole purpose of their new found faith is enlightenment, I would say it's more survival. The people helped in these tribal cultures are more than likely listening to you because you bring them aid that anyone could give them.

This is how you think.

Originally Posted by SuperNova

Because The Crusades were definitely for the better. Nothing like millions of deaths that make you wanna give yourself a pat on the back!

I would be rich if I got a nickle every time I heard this one.

The crusades are NOT sustained by anything in the bible. The "christians" involved in that struggle broke every rule in Gods word. Blame the self justified leaders and the ignorance of their followers not the bible.

Originally Posted by SuperNova

Let's face it, even institutions that were built on the basis of any kind of religion in this country is lost on those who currently run them.

This is a grim truth that I will admit. Over the years my people got lax and just handed it all over. They got tired and weaker in faith with every new generation. At one time folks like me were not seen as an oddity but our true adversary has been hard at work.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Since you are not a Christian you are in no position to judge my statements.
The option of the experiment I told you about is still open.

Originally Posted by Matthew 7:15-19

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Thus far, you have only brought irritation, frustration, and contempt down upon yourself and Christianity by your peers. These are certainly not the good fruits Jesus speaks of.

Your ridiculous assertion that, since he is not a Christian, he is in no position to judge the opinion of those external to Christianity is utterly without merit. If it is your duty to be an evangelist, and be a good ambassador to the non-Christian masses, you are doing a piss-poor job of it.

And don't go whining about good intentions either. Good intentions are irrelevant if the acts it inspires are not performed properly/effectively.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

As a practice of a biblical command to believers.
You ask me to abandon a practice of my faith to make you comfortable.

ABANDON YOUR FAITH?

Jesus fucking CHRIST, man. What did they brainwash you with?

Quote:

No. People die because they react in judgment of others without knowlege and mercy.

You don't even KNOW WHAT KNOWLEDGE IS. You intentionally remain ignorant!

Quote:

Show me a biblical verse to sustain your opinion.

Show me evidence that God exists and then we can talk.

LordSword, I don't know what your major mental malfunction is, but you're pretty much the prime example of what will be eradicated in future generations thanks to Darwinism.

"I hope and pray god will cure me! Only HE can save me! It's all up to him!"

*DROPS DEAD*

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

As a practice of a biblical command to believers.
You ask me to abandon a practice of my faith to make you comfortable.
Acts 5:29-Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!

Says who? Who is this God character?

I know that question probably crosses the line between respecting what people believe in and being an asshole, but seriously, who the hell even knows this "God" exists? For all we know, the concept of "God" was created by a group of people with financial and military power to keep people in check.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Show me a biblical verse to sustain your opinion.

Proverbs 11:2
Proverbs 16:18
Proverbs 18:12

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

While I'm at it:

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

B.) Do you really think anyone in society doesn't know who Jesus was or what he taught.

Yeah! You really showed him, especially with this:

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

ABANDON YOUR FAITH?

Jesus fucking CHRIST, man. What did they brainwash you with?

Never mind he didn't say he had to "abandon [his] faith," he said "abandon a practice of [his] faith." Good job attacking him with a statement he didn't make! Trolls couldn't do better.

Of course, lets also disregard that terrible secret that no one ever talks about; that evangelism has been a major pillar of Christianity (including Roman Catholicism) since its inception. Truly, this is a work of fuck-upedness and brainwashing that would put Jim Jones to shame(if the poor bastard were still alive today). Yeah, you totally know who Jesus is and what he taught.

Originally Posted by Matthew 28:19-20

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Originally Posted by Mark 16:15-16

He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Oh, never mind that bullshit. The last fucking thing Jesus said to his followers wasn't really of any importance to Christian practice. Yeah. Thats totally straining the bounds of reason right there. Those evil Christians. They don't really think that there's an afterlife, and there are more important things beyond this world. Their philosophical approach to the world isn't different from your own. Its all just a cover for their evil purposes of destroying the world with NASCAR, Bibles, and Buddy Christ bumper stickers.

But of course I'm just repeating whats already obvious to you. You know who Jesus was and what he taught after all.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Ah, now I see. All biblical conventions should continue to be practiced today.

I'll grab the sheep, you get the kindling. Time to sac-ri-fice, baby.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Capo

Ah, now I see. All biblical conventions should continue to be practiced today.

I'll grab the sheep, you get the kindling. Time to sac-ri-fice, baby.

That's incredibly ignorant. Biblically speaking, sacrificing animals to absolve sins was no longer needed after Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross for the sins of mankind.

I'm not saying you should believe either one way or the other, by all means, form your own beliefs, but at least be informed about the things you are going to discuss.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Since you are not a Christian you are in no position to judge my statements.

Thanks. That's the argumentative equivalent of "NO U!" or "NUH UH! YOU'RE WRONG!" You sit there and judge everyone else, how does it feel to be on the other side of the pedestal?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

This is how you think.

And everything YOU say is how YOU think. Prove to me how it makes you RIGHT, then I'll agree with you.

EDIT: And if you say "because the Bible said so" I swear... I'll... do something yet to be determined.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I would be rich if I got a nickle every time I heard this one.

The crusades are NOT sustained by anything in the bible. The "christians" involved in that struggle broke every rule in Gods word. Blame the self justified leaders and the ignorance of their followers not the bible.

Okay. I'll accept that one.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I believe the comparison to a biblical practice that should no longer be in use today is still valid.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by packrat

Yeah! You really showed him, especially with this:

Never mind he didn't say he had to "abandon [his] faith," he said "abandon a practice of [his] faith." Good job attacking him with a statement he didn't make! Trolls couldn't do better.

"Abandoning a practice of his faith" has nothing to do with "spreading it like the plague." Faith is not a sales pitch - it's a human emotion. If I say to you "BE HAPPY!" will it actually make you happy? NO.

Who gives anyone the right to preach to anyone else? Especially when it's completely speculative?

Faith is usually a personal thing. If only Christians would get that through their heads. You stay out of my head, I'll stay out of yours. That is, by no means, requiring anyone to "abandon the practice" of their faith.

He can talk about Christ, the book, the devil, the alien race from Planet Ogo until he turns BLUE IN THE FACE. Just don't preach it to people who have already asked to be spared the sales pitch.

Quote:

Of course, lets also disregard that terrible secret that no one ever talks about; that evangelism has been a major pillar of Christianity (including Roman Catholicism) since its inception. Truly, this is a work of fuck-upedness and brainwashing that would put Jim Jones to shame(if the poor bastard were still alive today). Yeah, you totally know who Jesus is and what he taught.

Yea, Catholics. Let's use them as an example of "spreading the good word." Great idea. Their conversion rate is insane, anyways. No one who actually wants to enjoy life is a Catholic.

Brainwashing does occur in religion - do you deny it? I shouldn't say brainwashing, per se - but the "fear of god" is put into a non-believer.

It's not evangelism that makes Christianity so infectious - it's the shit the Bible says that will happen if you don't believe. Oldest tactic ever: scare the shit out of them - they'll believe.

Quote:

Oh, never mind that bullshit. The last fucking thing Jesus said to his followers wasn't really of any importance to Christian practice. Yeah. Thats totally straining the bounds of reason right there. Those evil Christians.

I don't think Christians are evil at all. It's when they start fucking with other people that I get pissed.

I did the whole Bible school and shit when I was a kid. I don't know verses from the book because I chose not to. There's a reason I got the fuck out of that business early on (ie: I actually started to think and not blindly accept).

I have nothing against Jesus. I don't know why you'd think I do.

It's his followers that really aggravate me - and not even all of them! The majority of Christians are totally fucking rad with me. Like I said: stay out of my head, I'll stay out of yours. Most Christians I know are pretty much to themselves, and have no underlying desire to yap at me about their god. Just like I don't yap at them about my lack of a god.

You seem like you're a Christian, eh? You're cool in my book. You're not preaching. You're not telling me that you have some kind of crazy proof from space or anything. You just say "Hey. This is what I believe in." And I say "Hey. That's cool."

Quote:

They don't really think that there's an afterlife, and there are more important things beyond this world. Their philosophical approach to the world isn't different from your own. Its all just a cover for their evil purposes of destroying the world with NASCAR, Bibles, and Buddy Christ bumper stickers.

But of course I'm just repeating whats already obvious to you. You know who Jesus was and what he taught after all.

I don't have Jesus's shit memorized at all.

And why should I? No one actually FOLLOWS ANY OF IT. Christianity kinda makes shit up as they go along. Go ask the Vatican. Go ask the Protestants. Go ask any sect of Christianity ever.

NO one has it right. No one ever will. That's my point.

DarkLink: Sounds like your perfect god isn't so perfect if he has his son head to earth to change his fuck-ups for him. =/

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

Sass I really fail to see how Lord Swords assumptions of non-believers are any worse than your assumptions of various religious sects.

Are you referring to the Catholic comment? 'Cause that was a joke. =/

(But seriously. Who wants to be Catholic these days. All self-loathing, but no way to off yourself.)

Otherwise, there were no generalizations that I can see. Maybe you misunderstood me.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

No, it wasn't the Catholic joke. Right now I see a problem, Lord Sword insists on preaching and droning on about the word of God being the only true thing. Yet several of the people arguing against him aren't doing anyone a fucking favor by lumping all Christians together.

Lumping them together how? By saying "You believe in Jesus lololol?"

=/

I am pretty sure I was clear that I don't lump Christians together in that last, long post. I went out of my way to do that, 'cause I'm pretty down with the Jesus-lovers when they're not preaching.

Or are you just looking to argue with me again?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Yea, Catholics. Let's use them as an example of "spreading the good word." Great idea. Their conversion rate is insane, anyways. No one who actually wants to enjoy life is a Catholic.

It's true. I was born and raised in an Italian neighborhood in Boston, completely catholic... baptized, confirmed, religious education, Catholic high school, the whole 9... and for the most part I still can't believe that their beliefs on God or Jesus are the true story. Perhaps we aren't meant to know the true story.

And can I just say one thing? Mormons got it right, man. They do their thing, are so close to religion, and not once have I ever had God shoved down my throat by a Mormon. I had two Mormon roommates in college that woke up at 5am with shirts and ties on to go to church on Saturday and Sunday. Never once did they get on me about my drinking, smoking, pornography, ANYTHING. They just went about their business and did their thing, and for that, I ENVIED THEM.

Why can't you Christian Fundamentalist fuckheads be more like the Mormons and GET OFF MY E-LAWN!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Perhaps there is no true story.

Most amazing jew boots

She's made it very clear, Devo. Quit trying to stir shit up.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

No I'd like you to differentiate between Christians who preach and Christians who just practice and don't bother anyone. People can be Christians without having to proselytize.

Did you even read my post, Devo. ;_; I beg you to go back and re-read.

That's my point, see. I don't mind Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists - if they stay out of my life.

Originally Posted by Sass in that post

It's his followers that really aggravate me - and not even all of them! The majority of Christians are totally fucking rad with me. Like I said: stay out of my head, I'll stay out of yours. Most Christians I know are pretty much to themselves, and have no underlying desire to yap at me about their god. Just like I don't yap at them about my lack of a god.

You seem like you're a Christian, eh? You're cool in my book. You're not preaching. You're not telling me that you have some kind of crazy proof from space or anything. You just say "Hey. This is what I believe in." And I say "Hey. That's cool."

So you're just here to pick a fight then. WELL.

Nova, I was in the same boat as you. I was raised Roman Catholic by an agnostic man who wanted us to have some religion in our lives. My sister and I went through the whole thing - like you did.

And we ended up about the same way, I imagine. Catholicism. Gotta love it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

No I'd like you to differentiate between Christians who preach and Christians who just practice and don't bother anyone. People can be Christians without having to proselytize.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm gonna guess that Christians who preach are the ones that preach, and Christians that don't... are the ones that don't. I might have that backwards though. Someone clarify if I don't as I really don't wanna come off looking foolish here!

And come on Devo, don't intercede a battle with a side battle. =\

<3

Jam it back in, in the dark.

To: Sassafrass
CC: Capo

Subject: My point



There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

Yeah it's totally not the sense of community many Churches offer. Yes there are people who get scared into believing, but there are also people who find the communities involved in the church to be quite welcoming. I'm not stirring shit up guys, I'm kind of tired of blanket statements on both sides.

I'm confused. At which point did anyone say "all Christians" evangelize? Or made any "blanket statements?" Like I said, the majority of Christians I know are really cool people who have their own beliefs (that's in reference to ones I KNOW, not a generalization about ALL of them) I've since been to churches (even at a GFF meet!), and yea, most of these religious congregations don't push. I don't know why you think anyone is saying all of Christianity pushes - packrat kind of implied it with the "success" of "Christianity," but that can be twisted easily.

ALL of the Christians I know don't bother with evangelism. (There's probably a reason for this: I don't think I'd want a friend who preached to me a whole bunch). My issue was with LordSword who thinks that "Biblical" truth is actual truth.

Packrat, instead of using a giant image to say we missed your point, could you maybe clarify?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

He'd have gotten less props for that, though.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Poison or Cure? Religious Belief in the Modern World

Thread over. Christopher Hitchens machine guns the theological argument in less than 20 minutes starting at roughly the 6:00 minute mark. I would ask our believers here to watch (at least partly) this video and please give us a serious answer to the points Hitchens raises. I highly recommend this to the forum infidels and skeptics too so that you may replenish your ammunition and have a few good chuckles along the way.

"Why was the Amish woman excommunicated?"
"Too Mennonite (2 men a night)"
*ba dum pssh*

Just an observation, but I'm disappointed that many of our defenders of reason here are pulling their punches in their criticism of religion which is wholly fair (the criticism).

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Just an observation, but I'm disappointed that many of our defenders of reason here are pulling their punches in their criticism of religion which is wholly fair (the criticism).

Who said anyone was pulling punches? If you have some mystical magical OMG LOOK THE FUCK OUT knockout blow, then come with it (and your YouTube clip AIN'T it). And what kind of douchebag moseys on into a thread and just goes "OMG LOOK AT THIS LOL GAME OVER!"

In the words of the greatest man in sports entertainment, The Rock...

...who is this roody poo candy ass?

(I apologize. I've just always wanted to do that to someone.)

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by packrat

Your ridiculous assertion that, since he is not a Christian, he is in no position to judge the opinion of those external to Christianity is utterly without merit. If it is your duty to be an evangelist, and be a good ambassador to the non-Christian masses, you are doing a piss-poor job of it.

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love
the LORD your God with all your heart,
and with all your soul, and with all your
might.

1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts
sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready
to make your defense to anyone who
demands from you an accounting for the
hope that is in you;

John 14:15 "If you love me, you
will keep my commandments.

God is the judge of my preformance not people. This is my priority.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Proverbs 11:2
Proverbs 16:18
Proverbs 18:12

My reply to Kinkymagic & Packrat-->
1 Corinthians 2:11-15........Those who are
unspiritual do not receive the gifts of
God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to
them, and they are unable to understand
them because they are spiritually
discerned.
Those who are
spiritual discern all things, and they are
themselves subject to no one else's
scrutiny.

Biblical correction is attached to following biblical teaching. Until you can obey the book dont pretend to teach from it.

Originally Posted by SuperNova

Thanks. That's the argumentative equivalent of "NO U!" or "NUH UH! YOU'RE WRONG!" You sit there and judge everyone else, how does it feel to be on the other side of the pedestal?


And everything YOU say is how YOU think. Prove to me how it makes you RIGHT, then I'll agree with you.

I'm sorry. I didnt complete my thought because I was interrupted.
I volunteer to help homeless people in my community. I have sat down and talked with them. I know for a fact that their opinion of Christians isn't based just on the services. They know that we use our time because of what is written in the book:

Matthew 25:35-40 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

This last passage is the basis for ALL Christian service in many areas of community this is why people go running to thier local church when there is a catastrophe because there is the assumption that help is available.

Where is the basis for an atheist or agnostic to serve in their community?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LordsSword

God is the judge of my preformance not people. This is my priority.

No one here, from what I can tell, is judging you as a person - something you haven't been as generous with in regards to judging us.

We (and I say we because a lot of us have stated this in the thread) are annoyed that you're preaching to people who have their own faith and their own beliefs.

Not just us atheists, either.

And why do you keep quoting scripture? We know you <3 the bible.

Maybe I should start quoting random books, too.

Quote:

Where is the basis for an atheist or agnostic to serve in their community?

You think that because a person doesn't believe in anything means they can't "serve their community?"

I can't tell you how many favors I've done for perfect strangers in my life. I see a person in need who I have the ability to help, I will try my best to offer my help to them. Not everyone is like this, of course - but personally, I think helping a person in need when I can is one of the most important things I can do in life.

I "serve my community" because I value my community. I want it to be the best it can be. I don't need religion to do it. If I live there, if I benefit from the community - why the hell should I NOT serve it?

You think only of serving your god. I think only of serving humanity. (And heaven knows it could use some help.)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?