Religion: What it means to you

Originally Posted by LordsSword

What does this mean to you?

* Need to test beliefs - A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.

* Reason, evidence, scientific method - Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.

* Fulfillment, growth, creativity - A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.

* Search for truth - A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.

* This life - A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.

* Ethics - A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.

* Building a better world - A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

How has humanism proven to you to be superior in its definition of virtue?

Humanism is based on things like logic and reason, rather than tradition and dogma.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

At the risk of sounding like I'm siding entirely with LordSword (which I'm not), Christianity actually began roughly 2,000 years ago with the teachings of a man named Jesus. Whether or not Jesus was who He said He was is up to the individual to decide.

I know, I guess I just worded the statement I made above the wrong way, what I meant was that entire gap of time when it began, to about 50 years ago, that's when he would have been praised or something. My bad

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by LordsSword

The bible clearly defines what it means to be a Christian. If you see a person claiming to be a follower of Jesus and then acts like a hellion you can't blame the book. This is the stregnth of the book its a guide to set believers straight. The person acts the way they believe and if its ungodly behavior that person doesn't follow Jesus Christ.

Dont let a few bad people undergird prejudice.

Then you have to admit, if only 5% of the people who actually read the bible, and follow it are doing it right, then the book isn't doing it's job, is it?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

* This life - A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.

* Ethics - A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.

Humanism is based on things like logic and reason, rather than tradition and dogma.

*Hands clapping.* I like your reply. Thanks for breaking it down in simple terms.
Based on my experience of your humanism my only complaint is that it fails to have a central vehicle for calling people to some form of standards in ethical conduct.

I read the part about life & ethics but I have yet to experience your actions that express your commitment to such concepts. What I mean by this is the plain fact that when you see a person being abused (such as the verbal forms leveled against me) you did nothing to stop it. I saw no statement that called for a higher standard to which the other members here should strive for in the treatment of their fellow man.

I would expect this from Jackyboy the nihilist but not from someone who has more definition of ethics in their beliefs.

We can argue all day on the fine points of information, but its how we live out what we say that tells others what we believe.

My religion means calling people to a higher standard and stopping to take the time to consider how your neighbor feels. Have my statements ever been an attack on the person of my fellow members?

Yes I ask the questions, yes I have opinions but I never try to do it in a way that is intended to do harm. Jesus did the same thing and look what happened to him. Has anything really changed in 2000 years?

Originally Posted by Grail

Then you have to admit, if only 5% of the people who actually read the bible, and follow it are doing it right, then the book isn't doing it's job, is it?

I think it is doing a good job. Its sifts the believers from the nonbelievers.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I read the part about life & ethics but I have yet to experience your actions that express your commitment to such concepts. What I mean by this is the plain fact that when you see a person being abused (such as the verbal forms leveled against me) you did nothing to stop it. I saw no statement that called for a higher standard to which the other members here should strive for in the treatment of their fellow man.

If that's your definition of abuse you should toughen up. My friends and I are often far more cutting and insulting in our remarks about each other.

Also, this is the internet, who takes anything said here to heart?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

We can argue all day on the fine points of information, but its how we live out what we say that tells others what we believe.

My religion means calling people to a higher standard and stopping to take the time to consider how your neighbor feels. Have my statements ever been an attack on the person of my fellow members?

No, but I think you aren't being empathetic enough. I'm not saying that insulting you needlessly is justified, but you might consider that, oh, your beliefs and our beliefs (the majority of the people here adhere to some sort of secular humanism) might be similar or different, but regardless, it's the human condition to have a tendency to preach, rather than act.

Christianity, in its lifetime, has stressed SO much the primacy of faith over works that Christians have a tendency to do likewise in their life. Rather than turning the other cheek, you've been asserting your position using "evidence" we don't believe in, and reprimanding us for being "mean". "Have my attacks ever been an attack on the person of my fellow members?" No, but you're passive-aggressively assuring us we're hellbound and - worse - we're being "bad people". If you'd stop to think that Christianity, while hardly persecuted (it's a majority) is certainly DISLIKED by non-Christians for its perceived hypocrisy, you might come at us in a more pleasant, less demeaning, tone.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

If that's your definition of abuse you should toughen up. My friends and I are often far more cutting and insulting in our remarks about each other.

Also, this is the internet, who takes anything said here to heart?

Toughen up? Lets read this again-->Building a better world - A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

We here are good at the exchange of ideas part, but what about good will & tolerance?
It appears that your belief system requires that people that dont measure up to some standard of "toughness" need to have the good will and be tolerant and not the folks who are able to measure up.

I'm only using the standard by which many here measure christians by.

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

No, but I think you aren't being empathetic enough......you might come at us in a more pleasant, less demeaning, tone.

I am sorry if I hurt anyones feelings. My position is not ment to say that I am a better, smarter, more virtuous person than anybody else.

My religion means looking at myself, seeing my personal faults and dealing with them first before I present my case for virtues. Earlier in this discussion a person asked me about pride being a sin.

Without going into the specifics of of pride and how it works on a biblical level, I will say that I am a man plagued with a host of issues that threaten to undermine my life & spiritual developement. I am a messed up person who believes that I need help because I have tried being the "best" I can your way and discovered that I fall woefully short of even my own goals.

I have however found help in a bible. Its straight forward critisism of the human condition speaks to me with accuracy my state and the state of the folks here. My belief that Jesus is my Lord & Savior isnt just some fanciful notion that I just tell folks to make myself feel good. I really take it seriously as if God Himself is watching & working in my actions right now. With this mindset my perspective on how I approach problems and life in general is an improvement on the ways I lived before this paradigm shift.

Even though this is the internet I am still obligated to care because my God would want me to. My religion means to pursue virtue at all times in all situations.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Toughen up? Lets read this again-->Building a better world - A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

I had nothing but goodwill and tolerance when you first started posting, but your constant refusals to back up your arguments with any sort of evidence has eroded any goodwill I once had. I will be tolerant and have goodwill to people who deserve it.

If I were to debate a theist and refuse to explain any of my arguments or offer any evidence for them, and instead repeatedly trot out the same old, worn-out arguments that he has already questioned and/or dismatled then I would say that he is quite entitled to get annoyed at me.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I do not believe that there is a god. There is only one existence I can be sure that exists, that is my own. It is difficult for me to comprehend whether or not any of you actually exist or are simply a part of myself. Hence if i were to believe there is a god, it would by myself.

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How do you know you exist?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

I had nothing but goodwill and tolerance when you first started posting, but your constant refusals to back up your arguments with any sort of evidence has eroded any goodwill I once had. I will be tolerant and have goodwill to people who deserve it.

So we have to measure up to your standards to deserve some of that good will you were talking about?

I may never measure up to the standards of the folks here cause I can't even measure up to the standards of my God on my own merit.

This is why I depend on his provision of the sacrifice of His son Jesus. Jesus died to fill the gap that our inadequacy creates between each other and our creator. Because of this generous provision I never insist that people need to be what I expect them to be in order to have my respect.
(Matthew 18:21-35 Colossians 3:13)

Originally Posted by Capo

How do you know you exist?

I know because the people here respond to me.

My religion means wisdom & discernment through the methods of God.
(Romans 12:2)

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Originally Posted by LordsSword

So we have to measure up to your standards to deserve some of that good will you were talking about?

You were afforded goodwill but threw it away by being constantly infuriating and obtuse in your posts. Yes there is a standard for my goodwill and tolerance, it is not unconditional but rather depends on people showing that they deserve it. Your constant evasion of questions and repetition of past arguments has shown me that you don't presently deserve and instead I will withhold it until you give me a good reason not to.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I may never measure up to the standards of the folks here cause I can't even measure up to the standards of my God on my own merit.

The stadards of my fellow posters are much lower than the christian god. We merely ask that if you make a point then to include some logic and reason in it. We don't ask that you are perfect even though we made it impossible for you to be.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

The stadards of my fellow posters are much lower than the christian god. We merely ask that if you make a point then to include some logic and reason in it. We don't ask that you are perfect even though we made it impossible for you to be.

Ok. Time to get to the logic and reason. To wrap up what religion means to me I'll finish with "purpose".

The Christian walk has given me purpose in living that the "get tough" & "Get a life" philosophies lack.

I am aware of the conditioning that demands that if someone thinks outside of the "accepted model" they are to be cast out, ridiculed & punished. Some folks here find purpose in this.

Before the bible, my perspective was alot like yours.
The self made man, capabale of anything, master of my own fate, ect.
I was groomed to follow the footsteps of my parents by constantly being immersed in their hedonistic lifestyle. Eventually I did live their way.

I know where many of you are comming from, because of my experiences I fear where many of you are headed but thats beside my point.

As a Christian, I feel that my religion offers a purpose that is superior to any other lifestyle in virtue.

From my perspective the prevailing philosophy here is to persevere in becoming as crystal hard & numb as you can to life. I see it in the lack of concern for others in the posts.

I ask what purpose do you serve in your philosophy?

My puropse has been to show a better way than you know, not provide some proof or cunning argument. Through our discussion my purpose has been aimed at your hearts just like the bibles teaching aims at the human heart.(Ezekiel 11:19)
The reason my purpose is aimed at your heart (the place in you that drives your desires & actions) is because even if I was to pray and an angel tapped each of you on the shoulder the proof would only change your mind.
I have seen it first hand with an agnostic friend of mine and read plenty of examples of it in the bible of how this tactic fails.
My purpose has been to present an alternative to an earthly hell that leads to a spiritual one.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I may never measure up to the standards of the folks here cause I can't even measure up to the standards of my God on my own merit.

The classic farce of humility. It's funny how Christian like touting how they don't measure up, yet they claim their beliefs are eternal truths forever more.

LordsSword, by being Christian you are being completely egotistical and self-absorbed whether you want to realize it or not. The religious, by definition, require a self-absorbed view of the world where they are the singular holders of sacred truths. So at least cut the humility act, please.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

LordsSword, by being Christian you are being completely egotistical and self-absorbed whether you want to realize it or not. The religious, by definition, require a self-absorbed view of the world where they are the singular holders of sacred truths. So at least cut the humility act, please.

I admit being self absorbed. There is no denying this.

The bible cant be found as the basis of the fault you pointed to.
The book teaches against such an attitude.

There are many more faults that can be found in my character but I never claim that I personally have the answers to remedy my issues.

Again & again I state that my answers have been found in the bible and that I rely on it & fellow believers to strengthen me in my personal weaknesses.

Christians often say they have sacred truths because they have experienced improvement from following biblical teaching.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I am aware of the conditioning that demands that if someone thinks outside of the "accepted model" they are to be cast out, ridiculed & punished. Some folks here find purpose in this.

You have only yourself to blame for the replies you have been getting. Time and time again you have been asked to back up your arguments with evidence and instead of doing so you have started claiming victimisation.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I was groomed to follow the footsteps of my parents by constantly being immersed in their hedonistic lifestyle. Eventually I did live their way.

How exactly were you groomed? I was immersed in my parents lifestlyes but as an adult I have never lived life according to anybodies beliefs but my own. You seem to be rather weak-willed.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

As a Christian, I feel that my religion offers a purpose that is superior to any other lifestyle in virtue.

Name one virtueous act that cannot be performed by an athiest.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

From my perspective the prevailing philosophy here is to persevere in becoming as crystal hard & numb as you can to life. I see it in the lack of concern for others in the posts.

My 'prevailing philosophy' is that there are a hell of a lot of people who have much tougher lives than I do, so to complain about anything in my life is just selfish. Instead of complaining about things, I do what I can to change them.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I ask what purpose do you serve in your philosophy?

Look at my previous post about secular humanism.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

My puropse has been to show a better way than you know, not provide some proof or cunning argument. Through our discussion my purpose has been aimed at your hearts just like the bibles teaching aims at the human heart.(Ezekiel 11:19)

You've never given me the slightest reason to believe in this. I refuse to make a 'leap of faith' for Christianty just as I refuse to make a 'leap of faith' for a deposed Nigerian offical who needs my help to launder money.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

The reason my purpose is aimed at your heart (the place in you that drives your desires & actions) is because even if I was to pray and an angel tapped each of you on the shoulder the proof would only change your mind.

You should take a basic psychology class, because your understanding of how things work is woefully inadequate.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I have seen it first hand with an agnostic friend of mine and read plenty of examples of it in the bible of how this tactic fails.

Examples please.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Christians often say they have sacred truths because they have experienced improvement from following biblical teaching.

Yet they remain curiously unable to substantiate these claims.

Please cut out the Argumentum ad nauseam because it is becoming rather tiring.

Quote:

Argumentum ad nauseam (argument to the point of disgust; i.e., by repitition). This is the fallacy of trying to prove something by saying it again and again. But no matter how many times you repeat something, it will not become any more or less true than it was in the first place. Of course, it is not a fallacy to state the truth again and again; what is fallacious is to expect the repitition alone to substitute for real arguments.

Nonetheless, this is a very popular fallacy in debate, and with good reason: the more times you say something, the more likely it is that the judge will remember it. The first thing they'll teach you in any public speaking course is that you should "Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em, then tell 'em, and then tell 'em what you told 'em." Unfortunately, some debaters think that's all there is to it, with no substantiation necessary! The appropriate time to mention argumentum ad nauseam in a debate round is when the other team has made some assertion, failed to justify it, and then stated it again and again. The Latin wording is particularly nice here, since it is evocative of what the opposition's assertions make you want to do: retch. "Sir, our opponents tell us drugs are wrong, drugs are wrong, drugs are wrong, again and again and again. But this argumentum ad nauseam can't and won't win this debate for them, because they've given us no justification for their bald assertions!"

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

You have only yourself to blame for the replies you have been getting. Time and time again you have been asked to back up your arguments with evidence and instead of doing so you have started claiming victimisation.

I've only stated what my religion means. I dont need evidence for that.
I suppose I have gotten what I have expected.
John 15:19 If you belonged to the
world, the world would love you as its
own. Because you do not belong to the
world, but I have chosen you out of the
world-- therefore the world hates you.
My religion means doing what I have done knowing what will come.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Name one virtueous act that cannot be performed by an athiest.

Sincere prayer to God. Not virtuous to an atheist but to the rest of the world its a thumbs up.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

You've never given me the slightest reason to believe in this. I refuse to make a 'leap of faith' for Christianty just as I refuse to make a 'leap of faith' for a deposed Nigerian offical who needs my help to launder money.

I have seen a few views of courage here in this thread, where is yours? What will it cost you to just ask Jesus to forgive your sin?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Yet they remain curiously unable to substantiate these claims.

Please cut out the Argumentum ad nauseam because it is becoming rather tiring.

I'm am expert at this am I not? When patience for this thread finally collapses from fatigue I will know that God is finished with it. Until then I will state in every way possible what my religion means to me.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I've only stated what my religion means. I dont need evidence for that.

You have on countless occasions also maintained that you are right and everyone else is wrong. For that you do need evidence.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

John 15:19 If you belonged to the
world, the world would love you as its
own. Because you do not belong to the
world, but I have chosen you out of the
world-- therefore the world hates you.

The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved exclus-
ively for them that believe in it. Further,
the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them
that believe in it on the supposition that
they'll go there if they don't.
HBT; The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1

One of my best friends is a Christian. He was president of the Christian Fellowship at university and goes to church many days of the week. He is also universally liked by thiest and athiest alike because unlike some people he does not intentionally provoke people in order to confirm his own biases.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Sincere prayer to God. Not virtuous to an atheist but to the rest of the world its a thumbs up.

How has prayer ever helped anyone other than by being a rather childish placebo. I'm afriad you'll need to do a little better than that.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I have seen a few views of courage here in this thread, where is yours?

What in the blue hell does courage have to do with anything?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

What will it cost you to just ask Jesus to forgive your sin?

£1 billion, I will accept a cheque.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I'm am expert at this am I not? When patience for this thread finally collapses from fatigue I will know that God is finished with it. Until then I will state in every way possible what my religion means to me.

It's not something you should be proud of.

LSword, if you really want to non-fundamentalists to have any respect whatsoever for you stop being such a conceited, cowardly, infruriating, dense, passive-agressive, obstinate, idiotic, bragging, self-righteous, childish, foolish zealot.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I have seen a few views of courage here in this thread, where is yours? What will it cost you to just ask Jesus to forgive your sin?

Wouldn't it be more prudent to ask the person I've actually sinned for forgiveness? Seems a bit odd for them not to be the determining factor.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

You have on countless occasions also maintained that you are right and everyone else is wrong. For that you do need evidence.

Not in this context. We need a new thread.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

One of my best friends is a Christian. He was president of the Christian Fellowship at university and goes to church many days of the week. He is also universally liked by thiest and athiest alike because unlike some people he does not intentionally provoke people in order to confirm his own biases.

By its nature the gospel message is confrontational. Hence the reason why we are at this point. Ask your friend if he has ever been given a hard time about his faith.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

How has prayer ever helped anyone other than by being a rather childish placebo. I'm afriad you'll need to do a little better than that.

Its still virtuous to give a placebo if its the best that you have.
Dont complain about the remedy if it works.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

What in the blue hell does courage have to do with anything?

To embrace the concept of God & his promises with no proof requires courage. The Bible & Christian history is replete with examples of this concept put into action. Ask your friend.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

LSword, if you really want to non-fundamentalists to have any respect whatsoever for you stop being such a conceited, cowardly, infruriating, dense, passive-agressive, obstinate, idiotic, bragging, self-righteous, childish, foolish zealot.

I found out long ago that a person reveals what they truely are under stress. With all your smarts this is what you are reduced to when you are pressed to the limit. Humanism is but a mask you put on but we know what you really look like.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Not in this context. We need a new thread.

Can you offer evidence for you position or not? Looks like I'll need to add 'evasive' to my summerisation. Contect has nothing to do with it, any argument need evidence that supports it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

By its nature the gospel message is confrontational. Hence the reason why we are at this point. Ask your friend if he has ever been given a hard time about his faith.

Nope, he never has, possibly because he never goes around antagonizing people. I have personally had many lively debates with them and he has always done his best to argue his points with evidence and a minimum of logical fallacies. The reason that you find people become short-tempered with you may have something to do woth your personality rather than your beliefs. I can't ever remeber getting annoyed with someone because of their religious beleifs, but I often get annoyed at people who are annoying because of personality defects, persection complexes, zealotry etc...

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Its still virtuous to give a placebo if its the best that you have.
Dont complain about the remedy if it works.

Why not have a placebo that hasn't caused untold suffereing? Avoiding problems by convincing yourself that a giant invisible man will sort them out may work in the short-term, but in the long term it's not going to do much good.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

To embrace the concept of God & his promises with no proof requires courage. The Bible & Christian history is replete with examples of this concept put into action. Ask your friend.

Until you show how the bible is factual this claim is redundant. It takes 'courage' to repeatedly slam your testicles into a drawer too.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I found out long ago that a person reveals what they truely are under stress. With all your smarts this is what you are reduced to when you are pressed to the limit. Humanism is but a mask you put on but we know what you really look like.

Yup, mid-length ash blone hair (although I occasionally dye it red/pink), 5'10/11, slim build (although I'm working on that) and vaguely non-descript clothes, plus my trademark coat/second skin.

I don't see why you think that I am stressed as I have merely pointed some a few of your major character flaws and suggested that you improve them so that you are able to intergrate into society with greater ease and gain some respect from the fellow board members; because if their posts in this thread are to be believed, they don't seem to have much for you currrently. Constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Can you offer evidence for you position or not? Looks like I'll need to add 'evasive' to my summerisation. Contect has nothing to do with it, any argument need evidence that supports it.

I agree with you but my course lies in a different path than the "evidence" route.
The net offers each of us a considerable ammount of firepower but my goal has been accomplished several times over.
I am evasive but its for a reason.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

The reason that you find people become short-tempered with you may have something to do woth your personality rather than your beliefs.

My religion means having a personality that confronts the status quo.
(Matthew 5:13-14) The way I have behaved is patterned after many Biblical principals. Practice of these principals have become apart of my personality.

The same can be said of all of you.

Your tirade of descriptive words about me is a revelation of what you believe but I feel it is lost upon our audience. Perhaps not to the most perceptive readers, but my tactic thus far is to expose the the "natural man" in action. I do this in order to show what a person looks like without God & His message. Painful as this process may be this is another aspect of what my religion means to me.
Jesus suffering at the hands of his captors shows us the ugliness of human nature so that we can learn from his sacrifice. He provoked people too in debate & actions that confronted the status quo of his day.
Its a model for me as well to help people see themselves.


Look at what you think of your fellow man.
{conceited, cowardly, infruriating, dense, passive-agressive, obstinate, idiotic, bragging, self-righteous, childish, foolish zealot}

These are just some of the colorful terms thrown my way. By labeling me with such terms you are in essence saying you are none of these things &
that you are an authoritative judge of human character and what it should be.
Would a conceited person acts this way?
In dealing with mentally inferior person (idiotic), your solution isn't to help but to browbeat your fellow man. Is this a brave act?
How about self-righteousness, and zealotry. Your stand has been as strident as mine. How are you supposed to demonstrate your intelligence if you don't model by example.

We can take this to the next level. When you are ready lets continue.

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Originally Posted by LordsSword

The net offers each of us a considerable ammount of firepower but my goal has been accomplished several times over.

Yup, trolling.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I am evasive but its for a reason.

See above.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

My religion means having a personality that confronts the status quo.

And what is this 'status quo'? I've met hardcore, life-long punks who are less confrontational than you.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

(Matthew 5:13-14) The way I have behaved is patterned after many Biblical principals. Practice of these principals have become apart of my personality.

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.

So you're salty?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Your tirade of descriptive words about me is a revelation of what you believe but I feel it is lost upon our audience.

I'm saying, or in some cases repeating what everyone is thinking.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

but my tactic thus far is to expose the the "natural man" in action. I do this in order to show what a person looks like without God & His message. Painful as this process may be this is another aspect of what my religion means to me.

Am I the only one thinking 'Phelps'?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Look at what you think of your fellow man.
{conceited, cowardly, infruriating, dense, passive-agressive, obstinate, idiotic, bragging, self-righteous, childish, foolish zealot}

I don't think that about my fellow man, I just think that about you, and for good reason.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

These are just some of the colorful terms thrown my way. By labeling me with such terms you are in essence saying you are none of these things &
that you are an authoritative judge of human character and what it should be.

Nope, I'm just saying what you strike me (and I guess the majority of other people) as.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

In dealing with mentally inferior person (idiotic), your solution isn't to help but to browbeat your fellow man. Is this a brave act?

I tried to help you understand things like logic and reason but you refused my help.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

How about self-righteousness, and zealotry. Your stand has been as strident as mine. How are you supposed to demonstrate your intelligence if you don't model by example.

I've provided evidence for my positions and have said that I would change my mind if anyone could present some evidence that I was wrong. You have done the opposite.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

We can take this to the next level. When you are ready lets continue.

By all means continue to alienate others and embarres yourself if that's what your imaginary friend tells you do to. My imaginary friend tells me that you hanged yourself long ago and have done nothing but troll and give other Christians a bad name.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Quote:

We can take this to the next level.

This thread is going nowhere, largely because you refuse to provide a viewpoint or argument which runs concurrent with any definable and understandable basis. Kinkymagic and others have continually brought up points which you continually choose not to address because you clearly have no answer. The parts of discussion you do have "answers" for, are not testable and/or verifiable.

I understand why you feel the need to impress your views upon everyone that you come across but I don't condone it. Its an ego thing, not done out of earnest happiness for all, but in re-affirming and cementing your sense of religious idealogy in your own mind. This is one of the problems I have with organized religion. It makes an argument that 'truth' determines fact.

I don't believe Kinkymagic is the same as you at all. I believe he grows tired with the imbalances of your argument, which isn't really 'yours' per se, but rather an argument that was crafted by politicians and bureaucrats for the purposes of control roughly 2 thousand years ago; an argument which was never satisfactory and an argument which causes excessive strife and lack of understanding in the world.

Thats the way I see it at least.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Smelnick

All I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH!!

Please don't be frustrated because i'm not playing the game the way you want me to. We know each of us is entrenched in our own positions and really i'm not out undermine your education. You have already made up your mind before I came along.
This debate has gone on since antiquity, and you are not at a loss for the information that sustains your position.
My direction follows what my religion means to me which handles matters we have yet to tackle with sufficiency in this discussion. The matter in question is the notion of
a moral construct and how it weighs in your life. I think this is the weakest aspect of my opponents positions and thus the focal point of my direction.

Your information is strong to be sure but your practice of what you know is a different story.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Please don't be frustrated because i'm not playing the game the way you want me to. We know each of us is entrenched in our own positions and really i'm not out undermine your education. You have already made up your mind before I came along.
This debate has gone on since antiquity, and you are not at a loss for the information that sustains your position.
My direction follows what my religion means to me which handles matters we have yet to tackle with sufficiency in this discussion. The matter in question is the notion of
a moral construct and how it weighs in your life. I think this is the weakest aspect of my opponents positions and thus the focal point of my direction.

Your information is strong to be sure but your practice of what you know is a different story.

You understand that neither side of the fence has one iota of proof for what they believe, right?

That's why it's "religion" and not "fact."

Let's play a game: how many times can LordSword repeat himself in one thread? I'll give $20 to the winner who guesses right.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?