[General Discussion] Overly Frustrating RPG Boss Battles - Sephiroth kicked my ass

Though technically NOT a boss, I could never defeat that little urchin in Tales of Phantasia.

Other frustrating bosses from games I've played:

Chrono Trigger: That stupid imp with his blue and red beasts was very difficult without the right elements in play. Spekkio as well, in his Level * form (modified MasaMune), was challenging. You freakin' need to have Crono on Luminaire, and the other two as support healers, to survive.

Secret of Mana: Spiky Tiger in Elinee's Tower was quite tough, since the battle was fought before you had recovery magic, and you were limited only to 4 candy and chocolate bars. Dark Lich, I think, killed me once when I was very careless and got too near his disembodied hands.

Seiken Densetsu 3: That stupid Black Rabite killed me very many times. The rest of the game wasn't too tough since I love to over-level.

Final Fantasy 4: To be honest I don't remember much about the game.

Final Fantasy 5: They say Omega Weapon was tough, but the right equipment sure showed him (reflect). On the other hand, Shinryu kills me pretty fast. But I got my vengeance in FF5 Advance. (And then the FF5A bonus dungeon proceeded to own me even though all the enemies at the last normal dungeon area were pushovers.)

Final Fantasy 6: I hate those Master Pugs. Hate 'em a damn lot. Intangirs, without super powerful magic, were difficult. These were not a problem in the SNES game though, since vanish+doom=victoly MagiMaster, on Fanatics Tower, was very tough with his Ultima counter - if you didn't rasp/osmose him or don't have high enough HP, jump, or Life 3, you're a dead man.

Final Fantasy 7: Emerald Weapon didn't present too hard a challenge (I sapped half his HP with Lucky Sevens before the battle even started ) Ruby Weapon, however, was the toughest boss here, since he was immune to physical attacks and had a nasty habit of blowing off party members.

Final Fantasy 8: This game wasn't too memorable for me, strangely enough. I recall having quite a bit of trouble with Omega Weapon though.

Final Fantasy 9: There was a point in the game where you could prematurely encounter a super powerful dragon who can kill you in 1 round. I died 3x before realizing the area was off limits. Optional boss Ozma massacred my party six times before I beat him.

Kingdom Hearts: Riku, on Destiny Island, beat me 15 times before I could defeat him once The Ice Titan in Olympus Colosseum pwned me as well, before I gave up and consulted a guide. Sephiroth, I felt, wasn't quite as tough once you start using those megalixers.

Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories: The final battle with Riku Replica was extremely tough, especially when playing Riku's story. I think I finally resorted to save state/load state to beat him with Riku, since the pre-made deck stanked.

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I would classify a lot of these I'm seeing here as simply difficult rather than frustrating bosses, though frustration obviously has different meaning for everyone.

The only bosses I can remember being truly frustrated with were all in Dragon Quest 8. God that game made me rage like an eight year old with some of those bosses. That game would get me so worked up that it would put me in a bad mood and I ended up going as far as snapping at my girlfriend a few times while suffering though that misery.

Dhoulmagus, Rhapthorne and that damned giant bird toward the end of the game stick out in my mind though I'm sure there were plenty others along the way. I don't even know why I kept playing the game until the end. I still rage a bit just thinking about it now.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Cetra

I would classify a lot of these I'm seeing here as simply difficult rather than frustrating bosses, though frustration obviously has different meaning for everyone.

I like to go by the dictionary, which tells me that difficulty and frustration can go hand in hand perfectly fine. Don't bring that kind of stuff into this when you yourself admit that it's all opinionated anyway.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Usually "difficult" implies a challenge, though it's a fair challenge. Frustrating is generally something that seems unfairly difficult. For example, the tiger in SoM that zerg mentioned was actually one of the first battles I thought of, but then I realized in the five or so times I've played through the game, it's only beaten me once. Every time I won that battle I had done it when I was out of healing items, and everyone was dead except for one character. Whereas, say, Maximo crossed the line from difficult to frustrating for me. Or perhaps that mission in GTA:VC where you had to recruit the driver for the bank job. I don't think I've ever beaten that one without using the trick to get the non-default car.

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Fair points, Cetra and RacinReaver. I blurred the distinction between frustrating and merely difficult in my post. Let me put up a feeble defense by saying that I tend to be a level h00r, and the fact that I've sank all this time into buffing up my characters, and still get whooped, is kind of frustrating to me

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

Usually "difficult" implies a challenge, though it's a fair challenge.

"Difficulty" only implies a struggle; it doesn't imply a degree in which it's difficult. For you, "difficult" means a fair challenge, while "frustrating" means you're practically forced to use tricks or loopholes.

All I was saying is that, in the end, it's entirely semantics, and I only complained because it sounds like Cetra's trying to correct people by saying their choices aren't in fact frustrating.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by LeHah

I'm over here Rat. You're talking to the wrong guy.

But you don't troll =p

Originally Posted by Monkey King

Well, not really. The normal status quo is that bosses remain at a static level - you just meet bigger and stronger bosses as you progress through the game. If you get stuck, normally you can go level grind for a few hours and get a leg up.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about needless grinding in RPGs. When I say needless grinding, I am talking about taking a brief respite from the action to "get a leg up". I mean like I said in my first post in this thread, enemies often have a weakness that can be exploited. How you equip your party members and which abilities you choose to use have as much of an effect as simply bullying your way through a game. When I spoke of grinding, I was speaking more of building levels to 'catch up'. Some people, such as myself, have a propensity for blowing through a game and having low character levels.

For the sake of discussion, it is obvious to state that a lot of the appeal in the JRPG genre comes from the act of character building. So at least from my perspective, the whole point of having the optional bosses/ dungeons is so that people can train their characters to attempt an ordeal of sorts. They go, collect special items, special equipment, and build their characters move list and stats. I mean really, if there wasn't some asshole to defeat, what would be the point in collecting everything in the game?

Quote:

7th Saga occasionally had boss fights against the other selectable main characters, and they would all match your level. Level grinding would often be counter productive, since coming back at a higher level meant THEY would be boasting a host of new abilities as well.

The game was particularly unfair about this, since your partner typically wouldn't help you out when dueling the other main characters. This made life particularly harsh if you were playing as one of the magey types. The elf wizard chick had practically 0 defense, so trying to use her meant getting your head punched off in the first couple turns.

That game has a reputation for being brutally hard. I still haven't given it a proper chance yet, mostly because of time. I didn't really get into RPGs until the Playstation years so I have really only played a few RPG staples on the SNES. (the obvious ones, of course)

Has anyone here beaten the final boss in Legend of Dragoon? I saw a friend take on that guy, only to be wiped out two hours later. She was pretty pissed off after that.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well what I meant about frustration having different means is the context as well. Example: I personally don't see optional bosses with cheap abilities being a frustration point as they are optional and not required to finish the game. But I find storyline bosses with cheap moves that halt progress through the main game to be highly frustrating.

But Generic Badass is correct. I didn't mean to imply other people were incorrect and that there is some universal measurement of frustration, rather I personally found many of the mentioned bosses to be difficult but fair and the fairness helps remove any frustration I might have otherwise felt.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

You know, I'd have to say the most challenging boss battle that comes to mind at the moment (but it felt awsome when I did beat him) was

Spoiler:

Egg, the last boss on SaGa Frontier II. That game was fun as hell, and the last boss was one hell of a great fight, totally worth it in my opinion.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I actually had a lot of trouble with the fight against Grimekhala in SMT Nocturne. I wasn't used to enemies having so many immunities/repels against elemental magic and wound up pwning myself again and again.

Aside from that, the battle that comes primarily to mind was the fight against Colossus in the Castle of the Ancients in Shining Force 1. I remember the Mishaela battle frustrating me, and then this was like Mishaela x3. I'm no stranger to being worn down by regular enemies by the time I reach a boss, but when there are 3 bosses...ouch. And the guy who decided you had to fight Darksol and Dark Dragon in succession, and then re-fight Darksol if you egressed from Dark Dragon, was a sadist.

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Originally Posted by CelticWhisper

And the guy who decided you had to fight Darksol and Dark Dragon in succession, and then re-fight Darksol if you egressed from Dark Dragon, was a sadist.

That fight was epic. Thank goodness for Zylo and Gantz. I lost Zylo but not before unleashing a couple of critical attacks on Dark Dragon. I wound up finishing Dark Dragon with the main character just because I thought it would be appropate. It's cool how your main guy is all decked out in black after promotion. Along with the green sword, he reminded me of Luke from Return of the Jedi.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Yeah, that and the special finishing move he gets if you deliver the final blow to Darky with him.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Hmm, I've got some that haven't been mentioned yet it seems:

FFT:War of the Lions:

An Ill Wind.

The last multiplayer mission against:

10 Dreadnought Aragaths
All with Ragnaroks
All with Escutcheon IIs
Most with Shirahadori (Blade Grasp)
Some with Mana Shield and Soul Bind
Vampire and HP draining Shadowblade (or Duskblade, I forget)

Holy shit, this encounter was insane. I suffered through that with a buddy for a good hour or so, and the relief when they got rid of that bastard for the 3RD TIME was downright palpable. Oh, and the gear you win is fantastic. But still, that battle was about as rigged as you can get without using Arithmeticks (which are banned in multiplayer).

Okami:

Easy game overall, I didn't have trouble with the two optional Demon Gate challenges. However, the third was another story. If I had known the diffiiculty leap from the 2nd to the 3rd beforehand, I might not have attempted it.

You have to be absolutely flawless in your combos to maintain that free, damageless hit you can take. If not, it's a VERY quick trip to the screws, with cheap shots from all sides. The worst part was thinking it couldn't get any worse when 3 Butterly Raos, 3 Nagis and 3 Wakas (all superpowered) gangbang you.

There was a few times during that whole ordeal where I had to pause, take a breather and get a drink of water unless I did something I'd regret later.

FELIPE NO

I know I'm months late, but let me just say fucking Ozma. Jesus Christ.

When you read faqs that say "here's some good ides, but winning the fight is mostly luck because he's fast," you know you're in for a bad time.

Sup L99 Party with all spells and skills.

How ya doing, buddy?