[Wii] Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tournament Discussion

Originally Posted by Sakabadger

Sorry if this was mentioned and I missed it, but clarify something for me please:

what determines the makeup of these clans? Is it left up to ourselves to get organized (aka team with whoever you want), or is someone (Chaotic or Slash evidently) going to be splitting people up?

That... I still need to think about. I don't want anyone feeling too restricted, so I might just allow you to flock to whatever team you want. But I'm still on edge about how successful that would be. I don't want someone ending up on a team that they don't want to be on because the clan was full up or something...

Maybe I might do a random draw thing. I'll number the remaining players and the clan captains will randomly draw numbers to compose their team. Just so everything is fair or something. I'll even allow trades to happen between clans.

I dunno, though. I'll think of something eventually.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Chaotic

I just don't want them camping out the whole time and letting them get their win by just standing there. Pretty much why I'm against using this stage.

.....

Who actually does that anyway except amateurs/idiots? I've played that stage with my sister tons of times in Melee and that situation has never occurred. Maybe we're just better players or something, but I doubt any GFFers would do something like that. Heck I had a fun match on that stage with several GFFers just a few days ago.

I'm going to really suck in the tournament, but I'll join anyway. My sister hasn't said anything about it yet.

P.S. I wonder if anyone else is going to get under the Wolf ava/sig bandwagon. I'm not a huge Wolf fan (I'm a Fox fan) but I must admit he looks cool in Brawl.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Chaotic

Maybe I might do a random draw thing. I'll number the remaining players and the clan captains will randomly draw numbers to compose their team. Just so everything is fair or something. I'll even allow trades to happen between clans.

I so couldn't help saying this...

We're so going to be like the fucking NBA lol.


But I kind of like the idea of a draft or something. I dunno. First we gotta see how many people would be down for this whole thing

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Freelance Wolf

.....

Who actually does that anyway except amateurs/idiots? I've played that stage with my sister tons of times in Melee and that situation has never occurred. Maybe we're just better players or something, but I doubt any GFFers would do something like that. Heck I had a fun match on that stage with several GFFers just a few days ago.

I'm going to really suck in the tournament, but I'll join anyway. My sister hasn't said anything about it yet.

P.S. I wonder if anyone else is going to get under the Wolf ava/sig bandwagon. I'm not a huge Wolf fan (I'm a Fox fan) but I must admit he looks cool in Brawl.

You probably never had timed stock matches then. When time is tossed into play at Temple, shit hits the fan.

P.S. Funny how you complained about him prior to the Brawl release.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Slash

I so couldn't help saying this...

We're so going to be like the fucking NBA lol.


But I kind of like the idea of a draft or something. I dunno. First we gotta see how many people would be down for this whole thing

Yeah, but the NBA doesn't choose numbers out of a hat, just to see who they drafted. For draft picks, yes. For the players themselves, no.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

immp got propped a page back for the awesome idea he had...that needs to happen. ^_^

Also, I want the unban of Temple as well. I was a little iffy about it at first because it's a big stage but I love it as opposed to New Pork City.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Slash

This is one of the reasons I think it should be banned.

The last thing we'd need is two people both at 150% sitting and waiting for ages.

Then again that is what the time limit is for

But when that happens, the other players know it and the guy at 150% knows he's about to get bum rushed. See, it just adds to the fun mess that is smash. You think the fighters are going to let some random sit in a far corner and let him stay there? I'd go and try to kill him for the point. Relentlessly chasing him down with the rest of the players :P

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I'll just quote from SmashWiki on why I want and why Temple is banned from competitive play:

Originally Posted by SmashWiki

Temple is, along with Final Destination, the stage that is most often incorrectly considered among a list of completely fair stages. In fact, most high level players will attest that Temple is among the most unfair stages in the game. Its immense size gives an extreme advantage to fast characters with projectiles (i.e. Fox) and the Fight Club (the lower portion of the stage) completely revamps the way the game is played. Most of the misconceptions about its fairness come from newer players who see the large size as a way to allow them to live longer. While this is true to a degree, the upper death lines are nowhere near as stretched as the side ones. This again give a distinct advantage to characters who have the most knockback in the upwards direction, but completely devalues a character who's knockback is in side to side directions. This being said, Temple is banned in high level tournaments because it forces the game to take on a role completely different from any other stage.

I'm no high level player, but they do have a point. o_o

Jam it back in, in the dark.

So because of the quirks of the stage, zomg you die faster on the side then going up, they drop the ban-hammer on it? The whole point is to know where you stand on each stage and how you're going to play. but hey, if it suits the 'high level players' by all means, play on completely flat stages with no depth. (y)

How ya doing, buddy?

I think, for peace of mind, I'd like to avoid any references to smashboards/whatever in the discussion of rules and whatnot. Not that I'm vehemently anti-tourneyfaghardcore brawler, but GFF is GFF and smashboards is smashboards. I mean, death lines? What the hell?

Given that there's already been a fair amount of dissent towards banning stages, it should be apparent that we think a bit differently in regards to some things. We'll do things our ways.

Besides, let's say someone truly is a really lame player. If the community wills it, just blackball 'em from participating. Being exclusive is of course a longstanding GFF tradition.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'd rather plan on completely flat stages with no depth. At least then I could earn my kills on you. I don't see how it's fun hiding in the Fight Club anyway. There's no skill involved with that. The whole point of the Clan Leaders Tournament is to see who's the best and who will be able to be a Clan Leader. I don't really find it acceptable if someone got to that position by hiding a good majority of the tournament.

If Slash plans to run the Clan Leaders Tournament with 3 stock, 3 minutes, Temple is completely out of the question anyway. It takes at least 1:30 to get a kill and with someone who has bad vertical play, probably even longer. You could probably go the whole match with neither player getting killed. Time will run out by then.

And Saka, I completely understand the whole avoidance of trying to mention Smashboards or any place like that, but they just said what I'm thinking the best anyway (btw, death lines are the KO points in the arena). I want everyone to have fun in this tournament, even if they are lame, but I'm just REALLY fighting for Temple to be banned because that stage pretty much brings the lameness in everyone. People are going to stay on the bottom. People are going to do their best job dodging by running away. People are gonna choose fast characters just for the sake of that purpose.

I wanna avoid those situations while we still can.

At least everyone else isn't fighting too hard about the other banned stages (at least I think so <_<)... This is pretty much the only one that seems to be fought for a lot.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

A review of some of the major ideas:

Originally Posted by Chaotic

(I'm just using a random number here, work with me)

30 members split up into 6 clans consisting of five members.

Each week, all six clans will face off one other opposing clan.

Each member will randomly be assigned another member to fight off against in a best of three match up. Whoever wins, earns a point towards their team total this week. Whoever earns the most points after the five match-ups are done, earns one on the win column.

The cycle will repeat until each clan has face off against each other once. The amount of points you earn will be crucial also. Should the top clans both be 5-1, the amount of points you earned will determine your seeding for the Post Season.

The Post Season tournament will also be done in the same way, but in a single elimination tournament format. Clans will face off the same way as they did in the normal season, but should you lose there, you're knocked out of the Playoffs and the next team advances. This continues until we can crown a winner.

Match-ups for the playoffs will be done like so: 1v6, 2v5 ,3v4.

So fight hard, and make sure every fight counts.

PROPOSED RULES

Originally Posted by Slash

Best out of 3
3 stock - 3 minute matches
Random Stage
All Items on (Low setting)
[*Replays can only record up to three mintues of gameplay]

If no recording,

4 stock 8 minute match.
Random Stages
All Items on (Low)

BANNED STAGES

Originally Posted by Chaotic

Rumble Falls [Scrolling]
Mario Bros. [Ridiculousness]
Flat Zone 2 [Ridiculousness]
Hyrule Temple [Too big]
Big Blue [Ridiculousness + some scrolling]
New Pork City [Too big]
75m [Ridiculousness]

Did I get all of that?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Chaotic

People are gonna choose fast characters just for the sake of that purpose.

So... we're allowed to switch characters in the middle of a tourney? I kind of figured we'd have to stick to one character for the entire duration.

I'm fine with the rules either way as long as I get to pick "Random" as a character. Heh.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Yeah, I wasn't gonna force anyone to stick with the same character. Tourney people have mains, but since they play best of 5 matches, they're allowed to change characters.

So why not be able to do this here?

And Kesubei, yeah, pretty much for the most part. Temple is still under debate though and I'm not sure whether or not people wanted Rainbow Cruise in also... Yes? No?

FELIPE NO

Bleh, I forgot about Rainbow Cruise. As someone said earlier it is a heavy/slow character's worse nightmare. I vote to leave it out, since you know, I have a bias against fighting on scrolling stages .

Just a recap on what I think should be out of the picture:
Rainbow Cruise
Rumble Falls
Mario Bros.
Hyrule Temple
Big Blue
New Pork City

Again, I'm neutral on these two:
75m
Flat Zone 2

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

People who list off a bunch of characters or stages are just picky and want to play the game to their advantage.

"This one plays to people who smash up, this one plays to those who smash sideways. This one's terrain changes, that one's size is too big."

You can't say that certain maps are unfair because they cater to one chracter or another. This is why you just play them all. Pick random. If you want to be pathetic about it afterwards, tell everyone the reason that you lost the tournament is because it only gave "heavy character" stages and you were light.

The only rule adjustment that I'm okay with is "no items."

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Lukage, the idea behind tournament rules is to make things fair for everyone. Believe it or not. Which is probably the one aspect about a tournament scene worth noting that gets lost when you have a community run by retards or scrutinized by non-participants. Gotta love people who insist on playing with tourney rules in non-tournament environments. Again, I find it interesting that most people who hate the tournament scene aren't participants in the first place and really only came to feel that way when either one magical player in their life tried to thrust them into that playstyle like an asshole... or they were just getting sensationalized along with everyone else who just reads about it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Which it why it partly baffles me that we're somewhat against tournament rules in a tournament setting. o_o

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Smash Bros. is an anomaly for "fair", Chaotic. Because the game is pretty much fun to some people because it's a gigantic randomizer. It's meant to be massive chaos when played with many features. When you start to take away from that formula as a player who plays for realz, you step on the toes of other players. My only gripe is that if you aren't playing in the tournament fag tournaments... don't fucking worry about them, then.

If you were playing any game other than Smash Bros, you probably wouldn't be in this situation. The way it looks, at the moment, it's hard to decide what's fair to anyone here other than "Anything goes."

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You're confusing the meaning of tournament setting here. This is a friendly competition between GFFers on a non-Smash focused, general purpose video game board. This isn't, as has been said ad-infinitum before, Smashboards or any other (and I use the term jokingly) "serious" Smash competitive forum. I would not say this is one and the same.

I was speaking idiomatically.

alright, this is the way I see it.

We're not following smashboards equation for tournaments. From what I understand, we want to have a fun and insane tournament that will be fun for all and non restricting.

If you do not like the rules we're discussing give you're input and don't start comparing this idea we're doing to other tournament rules or whatever.

If you don't want to discuss it, click your back button.

The only stage I think should be banned is Mario Bros. Now if you could "float" through the floors I wouldn't be so against it.

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PROTIP: MATCH THESE CUUUUUUUUUH-RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY-ZEEEEEEEEE FAGS UP AND CALL IT ANYTHING GOES!

Just trying to help the cause, Slash. And honestly, you guys throwing in "Well, maybe just ban items" or "This ONE stage should be banned" aren't helping. Just follow the protip, play who you're going to play, and call it a day. Your job is insanely easy, Chaotic, you don't have tourney players here and everyone just really wants to have a good time with bracket structure. Give the people what they want.

FELIPE NO

That's the problem though, SOME people want certain stages gone, SOME people want them there.

I can't exactly call majority rules on anything when not everyone agrees with each other. That's the point of this thread though, so we can see what the people want in this tournament.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I would propose this...for the prelims/round robin I'd say all stages on, all items on Low. You'll get to pick stages, so keep that in mind with your character. And I want to possibly do it best of 3 so that you can't blame the stage on the loss.

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Maybe we could do a sort of reward system where winning (or even losing) clans get to pick a new rule for the week.

For example, say my clan cleans up house and smacks the shit out of all you motherfuckers. For the following week, we get to decide on a new rule, such as, say, "no items except for smash balls" or "only play in X level"

We could reverse that and give rule-making priority to the clan that sucks the hardest so we can sort of level the playing field. What do you think?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

But let's be honest, Rotor. I could make my job easy by enforcing rules one way or the other, but arranging ANYTHING in a video game tournament is never easy. There's always going to be one opposing side to what's enforced and in return, that's going to scare off some participants because the tournament isn't being run a certain way.

I don't wanna run a tournament where I'm gonna be dissatisfied with the way it's being run. I want to maximize participants while maximizing satisfaction by letting the participants themselves speak so we could have a tournament that everyone could be happy with.

This is what I get for not refreshing, but this is what I needed to see. Sprout, I love the idea. We'd probably give rule priority towards the last place clan. That way, the people speak, and everyone (I guess) will be satisfied. What does everyone else think about his idea?

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