South Dakota bans most abortions

Originally Posted by Watts

His point is that you're free to act in any way you want to. What you're not free to do is to deny or otherwise limit other people's decisions.

So what youre saying is that pro-lifers should become pro-choice? Isnt that (youre quote) the definition of pro-choice?

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Originally Posted by Cat9

So what youre saying is that pro-lifers should become pro-choice? Isnt that (youre quote) the definition of pro-choice?

I'm not really saying anything. Merely trying to clarify what somebody else said. I just support the status quo. It pleases nobody. It doesn't have to. It works.

States are free to put whatever limits they deem necessary, yet they lack the power to outright ban them.

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In a well run democracy, I don't see freedom as being as important, let alone more important, than the majority's opinion. It's pretty clear what the people of South Dakota want. If you're saying that your freedom is more important than the majority's decisions, why have any laws at all?

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They can act upon their beliefs by not partaking in the procedure... that's what pro-choice is... having the choice whether or or not you wish to partake in something. If your religious or personal beliefs are that you should not partake in something then that is your choice to follow your belief. Enacting a law that places those beliefs for all to have to follow removes that choice to for an individual to decide.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

So do a lot of laws. Why do we have a law against murder in general? That's just Christian Ten Commandments hogwash anway.

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I think that might also come out of the "My rights end where yours begin."

Quote:

In a well run democracy, I don't see freedom as being as important, let alone more important, than the majority's opinion. It's pretty clear what the people of South Dakota want. If you're saying that your freedom is more important than the majority's decisions, why have any laws at all?

Isn't that one of the reasons we're not a pure democracy?

How ya doing, buddy?

We're not a pure democracy because when our country was founded, it was not practical. We remain a fake democracy because it's nearly impossible to change anything in this country, especially when the people in power are so comfortable.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Why are you assuming a law against abortion has religious foundations? I don't need religion to tell me not to terminate a pregnancy.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Minion

So do a lot of laws. Why do we have a law against murder in general? That's just Christian Ten Commandments hogwash anway.

There you get into the whole moral and immoral (or amoral for some) discussion. Is it moral or immoral to kill another human? Various religions believe it is immoral and not just Christianity. Then again, various religions find it moral under certain circumstances... even when the rest of the world might, uhmmm, frown on it.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Listen, I can think gravity doesn't exist and the world is flat. That doesn't make it so.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Uh, you do realize that some women, even *gasp* secular women, are anti-abortion?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Minion

We're not a pure democracy because when our country was founded, it was not practical. We remain a fake democracy because it's nearly impossible to change anything in this country, especially when the people in power are so comfortable.

You want to get rid of the Supreme Court?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

You would get preached at regardless. People preach about all sorts of things. That doesn't mean their only possible motivation is religion.

And don't forget that I said secular women. Not just women.

FELIPE NO

Anyone else notice how you don't hear about these morality topics during years where there isn't elections? I wonder why that is.

So, how does it feel to be manipulated as tools of a political agenda?

How ya doing, buddy?

Maybe they should. I'm not arguing that.

You see, your mistake is labeling these people "the religious right" - a fringe movement that is a loud minority. I think this may be a flawed perception, though. Taken as a whole, I'm not convinced that our country supports abortion. And don't go showing me any polls, either. Most people who are against abortion probably never participate in those.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well, on the basis of legality, it should be whatever the hell the majority thinks. Why is this so hard to swallow?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

So, Minion doesn't believe in Rights, and we're all tools of a political agenda.

Wonderful.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Who said I don't believe in rights? Someone has to determine what our rights are. Who could possibly do this?

Cue arguement about the right to privacy ad tedium.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

No, it works regardless. I see you're having trouble fathoming the idea that I am consistent in my beliefs, so you'll just have to take my word I guess. Or not.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Right, you only believe in the rights set by the majority, and that minority rights, the ones that secure our basic freedoms are secondary to the wishes of the majority, which can be construed in any manner, including one where the "Majority Opinion" isn't actually embraced by the majority (Bolsheviks).

If we don't want niggers in our town, then by God we should be able to vote on it.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Cat9

Quite a presumptuous statement dont you think? Once again, if pro-lifers cannot act upon thier own beliefs, then are they really free?

Well not only that but why should only the pro-choice get to make the laws or voice thier opinions? I think people are thinking too shallow on this one.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

If we don't want niggers in our town, then by God we should be able to vote on it.

Well, I also think everything should be legislated from the federal level. States are an outdated concept.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Wonderful.

Make's you feel good now doesn't it? Honestly I doubt I'd have much trouble telling you which side will vote Republican and which side will vote Democrat. I doubt you would either.

Originally Posted by Minion

Well, I also think everything should be legislated from the federal level. States are an outdated concept.

Then you've just underminded our system of checks and balances. I couldn't think of a better way to kill the American Republic.

This is why abortion is a important issue. Not because of morality, religon, or rights. But because we're trying to maintain a balance of government.

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Originally Posted by Joe Wiewel

South Dakota's conservative voters and government are doing this because they hope that abortion will be made illegal on a national level. Which is just what this country needs. Babies being born to mothers that aren't ready, resulting in increased levels of poverty and everything else that follows from that, such as increased levels of crime. -__-

Very good point. Dr. Henry Morgentaler first began the woman's right to choose here in Canada,

Originally Posted by From CBC.ca

A Polish Jew who survived the Auschwitz death camp (where he was tattooed with number 95077), Morgentaler has pointed many times to what he saw as one of the root causes of Hitler’s death machine – unwanted children who were fighting back against a family that abused them. "Well-loved children grow into adults who do not build concentration camps, do not rape and do not murder," Morgentaler said in June 2005 at the University of Western Ontario, where he was awarded his first honorary degree.

I agree with this, unwanted children are treated differently, some are loved because the parents accept it, others do not. Not only that, what the court and the anti-abortion group needs to understand is that not all abortions happen because the mother wants to, on the first ultrasound more can be determined about the baby besides the sex, life threatening disease and conditions to the baby can occur, which can result in a very poor quality of life or may even be a still born. In most cases it is not a easy decision to make.

Again what the Courts and anti-abortion groups also need to understand is that t the beginning of the pregnancy, the embryo is a group of cells, it is not a baby... like a egg is not a chicken and a blue print is not a building. It has the capability to become one, but not is you do not want to contribute the time.

Late term abortion is also another factor, here is a good artical that sums it up pretty good.

Wrestling with late term abortions

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Watts

Then you've just underminded our system of checks and balances. I couldn't think of a better way to kill the American Republic.

This is why abortion is a important issue. Not because of morality, religon, or rights. But because we're trying to maintain a balance of government.

The hell are you talking about? We have an executive branch, a Congress and a Supreme Court all at the Federal level.

How ya doing, buddy?