[Wii] Virtual Console Rip-off

Think of it this way...

I am what I'd consider to be VERY computer literate. That means I browse forums every day, check my startup entries after installing software, etc. Being as literate as I am, if I were to even search for a reliable ROM site, it would take a while to find one (check Google....). Heck, the only reason I know ROMs exist is from my frequent forum visits (such as this one). Let me ask you this... how many people, over the age of 30, know what the word "ROM" is referring to? I know MY parents don't... and my dad is almost as computer literate as I am. Now consider Nintendo's target audience. Yeah, seems like Nintendo's got the right thing going here. Plus, show me the day Sega would allow Nintendo to freely distribute Sonic on their console, and I'll just laugh.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

That's also not to mention people like me, for instance. You praise the ability to configure this shit all the way you'd like it, but I don't understand half the shit that goes on, and I can never get the sound and video just right.

Why not, 1)Support Nintendo, sinc I love them, and 2) forego the frustration of setting this shit up?

Plus, your bullshit arguments about copyright and everything don't change the fact that Nintendo and 3rd parties created the game to be paid for. You're not paying. How is this different from stealing? You're splitting hairs about something dumb when the ethics are clear. You just want to validate your thievery with obfuscation.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

Phoenix... Phoenix Wright is a defense attorney, though.

Fine. Edgeworth, smartass.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Lukage

You have something that you're supposed to pay for. You didn't pay for it. Not only is it stealing, but it's additionally breaking laws and warranting fines. If you're so keen on your piracy, give us your information so we can submit it to the RIAA.

I sure do hope that you never did download anything from any of the FTP servers hosted by the members on this site. I mean, that would be stealing too, according to your definition of the term. I won't choose to argue semantics with you, but I sure do hope that your hands are stainless before you start casting accusations about.

I'm just sayin'.

As for the Wii Virtual Console, I will be getting into it. I may not buy an enormous amount of titles, because I still have a sizeable collection for the older Nintendo consoles. Most of the games I care a lot about have been bought and paid for. I might pick up a few titles for the VC that can't be found for a reasonable price, especially if they can't be emulated either. That would mostly be a few selected N64 titles, and it is contingent on Nintendo offering a quality experience. If it's not working quite right, then it's certainly not worth paying for... with N64 titles, there is always the controller to consider too. GameCube controllers are no real substitute on a lot of titles.

Really, my collection contains most titles that I care about that much, and the ones I can't get hold of aren't certain to be included on the VC. So it's very much an uncertain proposition for me right now. I'm not about to pay again for games that I already have on cartridge. I don't see a good reason to.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by deadally

You praise the ability to configure this shit all the way you'd like it, but I don't understand half the shit that goes on, and I can never get the sound and video just right.

And I think they are not configurable enough, on the Xbox Megadrive emulator you can take fine tunning one step futher by having per game settings, you can for example overclock the emulated CPU on a specific game to overcome in-game slowdowns, disable sprite limiter in games with a lot of stuff on screen, have different keys configs and even specific image filters on each game for optimal image (particulary usefull on games that rely too much on dithering). And there's even more options that I'm not mentioning, it's just awsome.


Anyway I have a few questions for those who used VC here, where do the emulators come from? I mean when you buy a say, Megadrive game for the first time, what happens? Does the Wii download the emulator and then the ROM? Does it just download the ROM and the emulator is built-in into each ROM (per game emulator)? Or is the emulator built-in the Wii and each game has a specific profile?
What about the configuration? What settings are available to change? Can you do controller remapping (force button changes)? What about image and sound settings like sprite limiters or CPU overclock on MD emulator (awsomely usefull setting)? Also what region (Jap/US/Eur) are the ROMs from?
What about the credits/about screen? Does these emulators have any credits to them? Do you see any known emu author credited in the emulators? Are there any known PC emulation quirks showing on VC emulation?

That's sure is a lot of questions, if anyone can be nice and anwser some of them it would be great.

FELIPE NO

The emulators are built into the Wii. They arn't made by known emulator authors, they're made by Nintendo because believe it or not, they are pretty good at reverse engineering their own systems.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by RABicle

The emulators are built into the Wii. They arn't made by known emulator authors, they're made by Nintendo because believe it or not, they are pretty good at reverse engineering their own systems.

Well, that wouldn't apply to the Genesis and TurboGrafx-16 emulators, unless Nintendo outsourced those to Sega and NEC.

And I heard bad things about the Majora's Mask emulation in the Collector's Edition compilation, although I never got around to playing it, so I don't know how much truth there is to that.

Then again, maybe they improved their N64 emulator since then. =O

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This is true, there's problems with Majora's Mask in the Collector's Edition. It even says so before you begin the game that there's sound misplacement issues and that it isn't your console.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Megalixir

This is true, there's problems with Majora's Mask in the Collector's Edition. It even says so before you begin the game that there's sound misplacement issues and that it isn't your console.

Not only that - It also has serious framerate issues I don't remember existing in the N64 version (for example in front of the clock tower in South Clock Town). I seriously hope that they improved the Wii emulator.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It has freezing issues which never existed in the original game also... which is made far more annoying by the awkward way you save your game (and having to start the 3 day cycle all the way over everytime). ._.;

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by RABicle

The emulators are built into the Wii. They arn't made by known emulator authors, they're made by Nintendo because believe it or not, they are pretty good at reverse engineering their own systems.

So they can't be updated? That sounds wierd... any other specific details?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Prime Blue

Not only that - It also has serious framerate issues I don't remember existing in the N64 version (for example in front of the clock tower in South Clock Town). I seriously hope that they improved the Wii emulator.

And the movie which shows every Zelda game ever made, then the "Zelda Collector's Edition" logo, is fucking misleading. Why would they showcase all of the Zelda titles and not include them on a collectors edition?

Actually, I believe they were going to include A Link To The Past in Collector's Edition, but they were releasing a GBA version at the same time so they canned that idea.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't think you'll be seeing such issues in Majora's Mask when it comes out. I think the problem with Collector's Edition is it's reading it from a disc and trying to access new music or something. With the VC it's straight from flash memory which is probably even quicker than accessing an N64 cartridge.

The way I'm guessing they do VC emulation is one of two ways. One, you download the emulators with a firmware update like the one you got for the Shopping Channel so they're already there when you download VC games which then run on the emulators you have on your system. Two, each game has its own slightly tweaked emulator with game rom that you download. The games do exist as channels after all.

Also, for those that haven't downloaded a VC game yet it's pretty slick. Each game comes with a nice instruction manual that details just about everything in the game that you can access at any time by pressing the home button. I've only downloaded Mario 64 so far but it's perfect.

It's very interesting how they do controller configuration because they do it on a game to game basis hence the lovely instruction manual. For Mario 64 L, Z1, and Z2 are the Z button. I was worried they'd have trouble with N64 and Genesis games but I think they'll be fine as long as their configurations make sense.


My only gripe with the Virtual Console is the games I want aren't out now. The selection we got was rather slim. Also, who's to say they'll be releasing all of their games at the rate they're going. 3rd parties are a big concern for me. Most of them are signed on but I've heard no plans of what they'll be giving us. I'd like them to go all out but will Capcom be releasing all their Megaman or Megaman X titles when they already have compilation games out there? Will we be getting all the Castlevania titles? Will Square-Enix hold back giving us Chrono Trigger or Secret of Mana because they're assholes? I mean people want to download these games but it seems that for whatever reason companies want to play coy to the idea of giving us the good stuff and instead deal out their small titles that we don't really care about. That's the impression I'm getting. I'm waiting for good news but it's taking a while to get here.

Oh and what of the great games we never saw? Secret of Mana 2, Earthbound 0, Starfox 2, Sin & Punishment. There are games that never made it out here or weren't even released. How much trouble would it be to get a translation for these games and is Nintendo even that cool to put forth the effort. What is so terrible about having new games from the classical era that noone got to play before? I'm going to be a pessimist and say Nintendo doesn't have the balls to do such an awesome thing.

Speaking of original games, with 512 mb of limited sectioned out space how are original games for the VC going to work? That's pretty limiting. Since the VC can't access SD cards to play games you can forget any spectacular downloadable games like Konami's Castlevania Symphony of the Night that XBL will be getting. The VC has an incredible amount of potential but I worry about its limitations. It will be interesting to watch how it all plays out.

So yeah these are the things I think you all should be more concerned about and not something petty like the prices of games.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Forsety

It has freezing issues which never existed in the original game also... which is made far more annoying by the awkward way you save your game (and having to start the 3 day cycle all the way over everytime). ._.;

Yeah, I read that at Wikipedia. I'm playing it through right now (to bring me into the right mood for TP and to shorten the waiting time till December 15th ) and have reached Woodfall Temple so far, without any crashes.

Originally Posted by Megalixir

And the movie which shows every Zelda game ever made, then the "Zelda Collector's Edition" logo, is fucking misleading. Why would they showcase all of the Zelda titles and not include them on a collectors edition?

Just as you said: They still make profit from "A Link to the Past" and the "Oracle" games. I wonder why they included the first two titles, though, since they were released as NES Classics for the GBA. Maybe a re-release was not planned at that time.

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

I don't think you'll be seeing such issues in Majora's Mask when it comes out. I think the problem with Collector's Edition is it's reading it from a disc and trying to access new music or something. With the VC it's straight from flash memory which is probably even quicker than accessing an N64 cartridge.

When you start OoT or MM, the whole ROM is loaded into the GameCube's memory. Then, every time you access a new area the map data is loaded into the memory, additionaly. This works fine for OoT since it didn't use the Expansion Pack to process more complex areas found in MM. There's only one minor issue in OoT: The swapping of the prerendered backgrounds at Hyrule Market.
As said, the map data in MM is a lot more complex due to the use of the Expansion Pack and the GameCube can't handle swapping them immediately since the whole ROM is loaded into its memory, too. Maybe Wii will be able to do it (its RAM is more than 3 times bigger than the GC's).

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Okay, I stand very much corrected.

In any case since you are actually paying to download these games I don't expect anything less than perfect emulation from Nintendo. The Collector's Edition was just a freebie to those who had preordered Wind Waker so hey.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

In any case since you are actually paying to download these games I don't expect anything less than perfect emulation from Nintendo.

Just what I thought. After all Nintendo has a reputation to lose. And they sure will use some of the earnings from VC games to improve the emulators.
I just hope they'll make previously unreleased (in PAL regions) games available - localised or not - and update existing games with bugfixes, new dialogue, missions and graphics. That'd make me more than happy but chances are low it'll happen...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

So it looks like Star Soldier was released yesterday on VC. Though i'm not
planning on DLing it, just seeing new contents makes me happy for some reason!
I wonder if they plan to release the original Smash Bros. (N64). I really liked
it a lot.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

by the way, here's the original text from the email:

Message(#7623-000344-4365\5936583)

Hello and thank you for contacting Nintendo,

Unfortunately if you have purchased Wii Shop content, be it Virtual Console titles or new Channels, we are unable to provide refunds or replacements as you are essentially purchasing a license to use the content on the Wii which you made the purchase. In order to use any content on a new Wii, you must first purchase a new license for that system. You can quickly and easily purchase a new license by ueing either a prepaid Wii Points Card, VISA or MasterCard.

The quickest and most convenient way to get a working system is to set up an Advance Replacement. Under this program, we send you a replacement system directly. The directions that accompany the replacement console will explain how to make the exchange and send back your nonfunctioning console and to us in the same box, at no charge to you.

All that is required is a valid VISA or MasterCard number to secure the return (your card will not be charged unless you neglect to return your original system). You would then contact Nintendo's Consumer Service Department by calling 1-800-255-3700. Representatives are available to set up your repair between 6:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m. Pacific Time, seven days a week.

If you do not have a credit card, getting your console repaired is still convenient and free. You may set up a standard repair by visiting the Customer Service section of our website (www.nintendo.com/consumer). Once there, select the Wii icon, scroll down to Repairs and follow the directions.



If you have additional questions or concerns, please let us know!!

Sincerely,

Nintendo of America Inc.


Nintendo's home page: http://www.nintendo.com/
Power Line (Automated Product Info): (425) 885-7529

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From: (removed)
Posted At: 03:41:47.000 11/24/2006
Posted To: Nintendo <nintendo@noa.nintendo.com>
Subject: Webform: Wii > Channel Support / Assistance

I have a quick question about the Virtual Console. If my Wii was to break down and i was to recieve a replacement, would my virtual console games transfer over to the new wii with my account, or would i lose them all?





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I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by AcerBandit

My only gripe with the Virtual Console is the games I want aren't out now. The selection we got was rather slim. Also, who's to say they'll be releasing all of their games at the rate they're going. 3rd parties are a big concern for me. Most of them are signed on but I've heard no plans of what they'll be giving us. I'd like them to go all out but will Capcom be releasing all their Megaman or Megaman X titles when they already have compilation games out there? Will we be getting all the Castlevania titles? Will Square-Enix hold back giving us Chrono Trigger or Secret of Mana because they're assholes? I mean people want to download these games but it seems that for whatever reason companies want to play coy to the idea of giving us the good stuff and instead deal out their small titles that we don't really care about. That's the impression I'm getting. I'm waiting for good news but it's taking a while to get here.

That's about how I feel. That's why I'm waiting till at least I get my income tax returns next year before I buy a Wii. I'm mainly buying the Wii for VC since I no longer have a working NES or SNES and I never had a Genesis. Titles I'm really hoping for are Dragon Warrior 1-4, Breath of Fire 1-2, Super Mario RPG, and Secret of Mana.

Oh and incase anyone is thinking of saying "Hey some of those are available on Gameboy". I hate handhelds.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Super Mario RPG is actually already confirmed, but the rest are just vague hopes at the moment. DQ 1-4 haven't been released since the Game Boy Color and PSX I think, so they have a pretty good chance. Square may be looking to rererelease them on the VC since Dragon Quest VIII attracted a lot of new fans to the series in the US. Secret of Mana would be very awesome, but BoF 1-2 I kinda doubt. They were both released for the GBA, and Nintendo may still be hoping for sales.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Hmm. I noticed that they released Star Soldier on the Virtual Console last night, but when did they add Ecco the Dolphin and Golden Axe to the Genesis section? If they add three games a week, I'd be pretty surprised (and equally delighted). Anyway, just downloaded Ecco and it plays great. =) Wonder if I can finally beat this game.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Tritoch

but BoF 1-2 I kinda doubt. They were both released for the GBA, and Nintendo may still be hoping for sales.

The flaw with that idea is that they're discontinued now. Nintendo can't really make sales on something you can't find brand new anymore.

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So are you or are you not able to play multiplayer on VC games with other folks that have them? That's probably the ONLY thing that will get me into it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Hotobu

So are you or are you not able to play multiplayer on VC games with other folks that have them? That's probably the ONLY thing that will get me into it.

If you're wondering if you can play them online against other people, then the answer is no as of now. Nintendo has stated that they plan to release periodic "updates" to their VC games, so we'll see if they implement online play at some time.
However if you're wondering about normal multiplayer, then yes, that is definitely available. In fact, you can play a 5-player mode in Bomberman '93...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

The flaw with that idea is that they're discontinued now. Nintendo can't really make sales on something you can't find brand new anymore.

Oh, are they? I was thinking BoF2 was still available, but maybe not. I never really looked into those since I wanted to beat BoF1 on my SNES first.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.