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Welcome to the Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis. |
GFF is a community of gaming and music enthusiasts. We have a team of dedicated moderators, constant member-organized activities, and plenty of custom features, including our unique journal system. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ or our GFWiki. You will have to register before you can post. Membership is completely free (and gets rid of the pesky advertisement unit underneath this message).
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I think Sakimoto has earned every inch of his 'success', or whatever you wish to call it. He is a skillful composer and can can create a large volume of tracks fairly quickly, which is a very valuable asset in today's video game industry and is also one of the reasons that he is so "popular" at the moment with various projects. Are you going to assume that Sakimoto achieved all the fame and prestige based upon his employment at Square? I mean, for Christ sakes, he was only employed by Square for 2 measly years and has worked freelance since 2000, creating titles for literally dozens of companies. I think Sakimoto got his real break with Mr. Matsuno who was working with Quest, at the time. (developer of Ogre Battle) Its the relationship that Sakimoto shared with Iwata and Matsuno that mainly bolstered his reputation for writing video game music. When you add up all of the projects he has accumulated throughout his composing career, his time with Square is minimal at best. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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Wonderful Chocobo |
Either way, I appreciate where you're coming from, but Yasumi Matsuno was more significant than anyone else. Matsuno started at Quest with Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre before joining Square for Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story only to leave during Final Fantasy XII production. It's widely believed that Matsuno was integral to Sakimoto's refinement of his orchestral style. He provided plenty of feedback in the composer's first orchestral work, 1993's Ogre Battle, and also helped to define the approach of Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story, as well as allow him to express human emotion for the first time in Tactics Ogre. As for the matter of circumstance, Matsuno is integral. Ogre Battle was so important in Sakimoto's Japanese recognition and, were it not for this Quest collaboration, he would never have followed Matsuno to score Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story (though his involvement in Treasure Hunter G was entirely separate). Interestingly, though, it was 1991's Magical Chase that started the Quest collaboration and it's thanks to Iwata, who had previously worked with Sakimoto on 1987's Revolter, that encouraged Quest to work with him. Sakimoto is one of many of today's prominent VGM composers that have got to the top partly due to chance circumstances. However, the same applies to Nobuo Uematsu, Yasunori Mitsuda, Yoshitaka Hirota, Noriyuki Iwadare, Koichi Sugiyama, and many others I haven't done research on. The principle reason Sakimoto has stayed on top is because he's regarded as an excellent game composer by those who employ him, e.g. Matsuno. Apparently, the same can't be said for Iwata, though Basiscape has given his career a nice lift. I disagree with Rain that Sakimoto isn't at all famous. He's got a lot of fans and is increasingly becoming a familiar name among mainstream RPG fans. He's had fans since 1993 and continues to have a growing fanbase. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I don't believe Sakimoto is a household name like Uematsu or Mitsuda.
I believe there are plenty of composers that get more recognition than Sakimoto so I am speaking of Sakimoto's fame via comparison to other prominent and well regarded composers in the industry. How ya doing, buddy?
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What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Datschge, you're fired.
FELIPE NO
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Last edited by RainMan; Mar 11, 2007 at 08:29 PM.
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So...I take it you give every single composer (including ones you like and ones you dislike) this same exact treatment? As far as "real life" listening goes, I simply don't have the time to extend to appreciating and enjoying music from composers and albums I see little appeal in, considering how much is out there. Although oddly enough, Tactics is one of the OST's I've probably spend the most amount of time at least making an attempt to enjoy. It's not bad...I have a much higher opinion of it now than I did back in 99 and it's far more enjoyable than either Vagrant Story or FFXII (both of which I lost interest in), but I still only have about 1/4 of it on my harddrive.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
I'm taking over this town...
I'm screaming for vengenace... I'm shouting at the devil... I'm not dead and I'm not for sale... Ain't lookin' for nothin' but a good time...
Last edited by Golfdish from Hell; Mar 11, 2007 at 08:40 PM.
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Good Chocobo |
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Bollocks. I know what I like...understanding something more elaborately can oftentimes lead to enjoying it more, I don't care what it is. From a blade of grass, to the inner workings of a space shuttle to a swiss clock. Understanding is a means for appreciating. Without a basis for understanding, there is sometimes no sense of perspective with which to grasp a particular principle or metholody, so a subjects true worth evades us.
Uncovering intricacies which display the capabilities for exploring new worlds, await us at nearly every turn. This is true in almost every sense, in everything that we do as humans, least of all in regards to music. How ya doing, buddy?
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Wonderful Chocobo |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
I think deservedley good things await Mr. Sakimoto. Most amazing jew boots
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Step 1 - Get degree in music composition Step 2 - Submit resume to game company In fact, from what I read, you've already completed step 1. What does it matter what those other putzes at your school think? Even in an alternate universe where you changed the face of academia and inspired professors to teach game music composition courses, it would be quite fruitless. There are like a million game design/programming courses offered at every nowheresville school on the planet now, and not a damn one of them is actually respected by game developers or publishers - what makes you think a VGM composition degree would be any different? Additional Spam:
Most amazing jew boots |
Larry Oji, Super Moderator, Judge, "Dirge for the Follin" Project Director, VG Frequency Creator |
As one who is in constant interaction with film scoring students, I've absorbed the best examples of film music, and believe that I am not alone when I say that there are examples in game music which exceed the quality and better capture the things I seek overall in music. There are also techniques and standards exclusive to game music in that game music incorporates elements that are not limited to the classical field, the jazz field, nor the film music field. It actually takes the best from all of these fields, including fields outside of academic institutions like the hip-hop, pop, techno, world, and other fields which have been fused with the styles taught at universities that make game music all the more distinct. We can begin to elaborate on why these composers are so talented/eclectic, and begin a discourse amongst students that is most appropriately played out in an academic setting. A game scoring course would be a fusion of all the existing departments, and finally, the music genres that have been shunned by academics like hip-hop and the other controversial styles of music which academia erroneously deems a cliche. VG music consists of composers more eclectic than anywhere in the world, and I will support this claim by citing Yoko Kanno as the Chameleon of music composition; a Video Game composer. My course would be very different from other courses in that my students would be encouraged to follow their path, whatever it may be, while at the same time taking into account that the best game composers have been the most eclectic ones, and this is a challenge and goal that the academic environment can best meet due to the interaction which can take place between the various departments, an interaction which is sorely missing due to the opposing attitudes of the various camps. Ultimately, when I say that I love game music most, I'm also saying that I love ALL music just as much because again, it takes the best from ALL the fields and immortalizes it to a new generation. If one wishes to be a great game composer, they cannot have biases; they must be ready to do it all, and again, I will model after Yoko Kanno. I want only success for my students, and I would best ensure that success by taking the best methods utilized by the most successful lecturers, and focus on the finest examples of game music. So let me ask you, why should we have a film scoring major and not a game scoring major? Or do you think this too is a waste of time? Why have any major at all? Or are you a film music fan moreso than a game music fan? Believe me, I would have learned alot more if I had professional music theoreticians talking about what is going on in works which interest game music fans, and there are many of us. Instead of Beethoven, why not talk about Naoshi Mizuta or Masashi Hamauzu? Hamauzu has done far more for me than Beethoven ever has quite frankly. I agree when you say there are many makeshift game development courses out there, but this is NYU were talking about here, and I've the skills to do what it takes to lead one's ear in the right direction, to understand and be aware of the standards set by the finest composers. Many people have not a clue of the enormous wealth of quality music that rests in the gaming world, and if these uninformed and biased opinions of game music are to cease, they must be quelled with the evidence. Video game composers should be recognized as human beings as well as great composers, and if I do not do this now, noone else will. I believe that only then will music schools be set in the right direction, and game composers are examples of composers who will unite all schools of musical thought. This is my goal, and I know I can do it, through awareness and the desire to promote a scientific and cultural community engaged in higher education and peer-reviewed research, taken as a whole to help push and stimulate high quality game music production. Additional Spam: Here, take a listen to my music and tell me if you think I've the chops to teach game composition. All of my works are inspired from game music in some way, and all the works are a product of the extensive listening I've done in game music. Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can. The story of how I began composing is very interesting. I should also mention that a game music course would also require strong cooperation with the music technology department, you do need to learn MIDI and synthesis after all. http://www.myspace.com/danieldecastro Keep in mind that no work written here is written after age 23. I am currently 26, and have many new works, but do not wish to show just yet. I know it's arrogant of me to say but I really like my own music, and I believe that others can do a better job at absorbing influences than I can. I apologize if you don't like it, I tried my best. I started writing music at age 19, and have been told that my music is doctoral level work by faculty at NYU. I had NO musical training prior to that. They only recently found out that it is all a product of game music, and I can only imagine the ability that brighter minds than I would gain if exposed to great music from games they never knew existed. I owe a big thanks to game composers for my accomplishments, and know that they have inspired many others. I merely wish to bring it to the next level. Most amazing jew boots
Last edited by Daniel DeCastro; Mar 11, 2007 at 11:03 PM.
Reason: This member got a little too post happy.
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And Rainman and Maul, yes I do claim that Sakimoto would'nt have 20% of his current popularity if you withdrew his work for Square from his discography, especially the FF stuff. My point is that the VGM industry is full of little Sakimotos who just didnt have the chance to work for game series as exposed as he did. No problem with that, that's the way it is in all medias. But here I was originally answering Piccolonamek who said he had to give Sakimoto's music time to grew on him. My point was that he probably wouldnt have given it time if it havent been from a series he loved. So yeah, I'm not saying Sakimoto is bad, just that he is nothing special. ~_~ FELIPE NO |
Wonderful Chocobo |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
Last edited by Mr. X; Mar 12, 2007 at 07:26 AM.
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Jam it back in, in the dark. |
niki, you surely know how much percentage of his popularity would Nobuo Uematsu have without FFs (as much as Uematsu is one of architects who made FF such a huge game). Without illegal download (perhaps it can be legal in some countries), I'm pretty sure few people would heard the Blue Dragon soundtrack. What you talked about Sakimoto can apply to all composers.
Indeed, we know why you bothered to say it for Sakimoto. As you mentioned first, you simply can't understand the craze around Sakimoto at all and then felt liking inflaming Sakimoto supporters. So, you said 'people hear Sakimoto's music not because it's good, but because it's from FF or other franchises' There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Secondly, you're mentioning Uematsu while at the same time infirming your point yourself. Like you said, Uematsu not only started working on FF from the very start, but he also contributed a lot on it's success. Now, I'm not saying fanboyism has nothing to do in his fame, and the fact the FF7 OST remains the most popular of his works is proof of that (*sigh*). But still, driving the train of success from day 1 isnt the same thing as jumping in when it has already reached full speed. And again, I am not being scornful when I say this. That's the way things work and there's nothing wrong with it. I just personally see it as the true explanation of Sakimoto's recognition, rather than his actual talent. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
Like niki said, it's the same for everyone. In reality, Yasunori Mitsuda would still be a niche name without the Chrono games (massive understatement), Uematsu would just have been "another composer" in the NES age without Final Fantasy (with questionable prospects moving forward without the series...Rad Racer and 3D World Runner have fine music, but nothing that supercedes anything in the NES age) and even a hack like Naoshi Mizuta would still be lingering in obscurity without a true FF game to his name (as he did with Capcom, as a third or forth string composer). Look no further than Noriyasu Agematsu and Masato Kouda, who are getting their chance with the Wild Arms series after years of niche projects (and Michiko Naruke, who was completely obscure prior to getting the original Wild Arms gig and now has raging fanboys emailing her to update her friggin website and worrying about her health). And hell...No one gave a fuck about Masashi Hamauzu or Junya Nakano until after FFX. I remember how tepid the response was when both were announced to be working on the next FF game. Both SF2 and Dewprism had their fans, but not in the ravenous sense you see both supported in nowadays (though maybe Hama more than Naka). And you still never see Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon or Another Mind come up in hardly any type of conversation. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
I'm taking over this town...
I'm screaming for vengenace... I'm shouting at the devil... I'm not dead and I'm not for sale... Ain't lookin' for nothin' but a good time...
Last edited by Golfdish from Hell; Mar 12, 2007 at 09:56 AM.
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EDIT:I also think GFX's description hits the nail, as far as composer's recognition goes. I was speaking idiomatically.
Last edited by Taisai; Mar 13, 2007 at 07:41 AM.
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Wonderful Chocobo |
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
I'll give your work a listen, but not at the moment because I am crippled with a sickness that seems to be ending the entire Boston area one person at a time, and so my judgment is probably not extremely good at the moment. For the record - try to trim down the length of your posts. I don't really have the patience to read them word for word, and given how few people responded directly to you, I doubt many of the others did. I promise I'll listen to your music, though. FELIPE NO |
Meh anyway, I'm not going to explain myself one more time. Keep interpreting what I say in the most radical way, I guess. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Larry Oji, Super Moderator, Judge, "Dirge for the Follin" Project Director, VG Frequency Creator |
I'm sorry for your sickness, I hope you get better! My girlfriend lives in Somerset MA, hopefully it doesn't spread too far.
Your claims are interesting. Do you have peer reviewed articles that demonstrate them? Anyhow, I think this is a different situation regardless. If what you say is true, it wouldn't affect me as we're not talking about programming and design; we're speaking about development of musical talent, and ability to provide that which is expected of you while understanding the standards set by the field, and the possibilities available for bringing both art and craft to the game table; a totally different animal. Also, you need to take my qualifications and curriculum into consideration before you can truly judge, and this is something I don't believe an internet forum appropriate for. Such things are done over the phone via an academic institution, or face to face. I have alot of confidence in my ability to teach game music via the eclectic method I use. I have lived it and breathed it since age 6, and understand it's audience. I know how to help people find their language and interest. I would nurture that wholeheartedly without bias, and this is something that seldom exists in academia. I have studied the game music curriculum they teach at USC and it is severely limited. According to a colleague there, they are only talking about American game composers many with a film music background. While I have great respect for names like Soule, Giacchino, Rob King, and others, they fail to elaborate on the works of the Japanese masters, and I think this would prevent a wonderful body of high quality music from being recognized, absorbed, and evolved. I have expertise in both as I have listened extensively to both western and eastern approaches to game scoring, and both styles have something very special to offer. Sure they talk about Koji Kondo at that school, but for goodness sakes, a few memorable tunes isn't all the Japanese have to bring to the table . Anyhow, I'm bringing something unique to the table that they are not, and history shows that such openmindedness produces the best results. I look to Nadia Boulanger for the example of great teaching and would do my best to make a game music course worthwhile. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |