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Drugs are illegal, so what do we have? Drug trafficking. Selling sex is illegal, so what do we have? Prostitution. Make promiscuous sex illegal and you'll run society right back into the hole it came from. You wonder why there's so much disease? Teaching abstinence instead of safe sex is probably a good place to start. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Last edited by Bradylama; Dec 23, 2007 at 07:49 PM.
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Ouch. You asked me a question. I'm sorry you don't like the answer.
I was speaking idiomatically. |
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Can someone else yell at me please? Sorry Sprouticus. There's a few good points you make. But the rest of it is changing my words around recklessly and a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense or is oddly irrelevant.
FELIPE NO |
Since you are a Christian, I'd like to ask you as nicely as I know how if we can avoid the whole discussion on birth control? I mentioned it as part of an argument absent any discussion of the morality of the practice. I personally would really appreciate not getting into that one, and it's off-topic for the thread anyway. As for adultery or cheating outside of marriage, I don't see any meaningful difference between that and any other kind of dishonest and hurtful behaviour in a relationship. Sex does not have to be involved, there are all kinds of ways for human beings to betray each other. It's never just the physical act that was the big deal, it's always the feeling of loss of trust and of betrayal as well. That can happen either with or without sex.
Once again... this can happen with or without sex. What you seem to be saying here is that a lot of people are cruel. I can't argue with that, and woul not wish to. Where I think you are mistaken is in assuming that sex is somehow related to this cruelty simply because it is often the 'weapon' of choice. I'm asking you to consider the possibility that it is but a means to an end for cruel people, and that these things are not directly related to sex itself. If you misuse a car, you may use it as a weapon by crashing it, potentially harming many people. If you misuse a knife, you may harm others by using it as a weapon. If you misuse household chemicals you may harm many other people by creating a crude explosive device. If you misuse a computer (or for that matter, a pen and paper) you may hurt the feelings of others by writing unkind things. Almost anyhing can be used to cause emotion distress or physical harm. Try to find something that has no potential for such abuse. It's harder than you might think.
Since I have made that request of you it is only fair that I point out that what I have posted is only my own opinions.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
I just remembered the question that puts things in perspective
for a lot of people: Why is it illegal to sell something you can give away for free? Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Debating moral subjects is pointless. It's boils down to throwing around euphemisms. Legalization/decriminalization, prostitute/whore, rape/prostitution. It's all doublespeak.
Nothing meaningful is going to be exchanged. Unless you feel you have the right to question someone else's moral/religous beliefs. Which apparently everyone does. Oh look, the abortion euphemisms are already starting to crop up in the topic. Which has nothing to do with whores or legalized rape!
I lack foresight into the possibilities. Only thing I was saying is that if DNA can be patented anything is possible. My position was that opposition to legalization could easily be found on the reactionary ideology, social tension, and/or unforeseen consequences (besides more regulation/taxes) that such a political move would create. To often people are far too willing to upset the balance the status quo creates without thinking about the negative social/political consequences. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Nothing should ever change, no matter what the proof is for it being a logical, proven step, because the boat might be rocked? The point of changing the status quo is because the boat -needs- to be rocked. We're not talking morals, we're talking legality. As always, Watts, you're arguing semantics to obfuscate a lack of actual substance. You are either a complete idiot or a world class political troll.
Most amazing jew boots John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
Ah...much better. Thank you.
Sorry for getting defensive. I promise I just thought I was answering a question about how sex can be harmful. I'm not the one who posed the question. I answered the question as simply as it was presented to me. My answer was brief an unspectacular, but it answered the question. Sex can be harmful. And so can a table saw, a bottle of bleach, the old refrigerator in the garage, etc. This doesn't really demand that I need to answer any differently. I'm used to being flamed, but it's hard to respond when I don't know what I'm being yelled at for. I certainly wouldn't complain in there was an increase in the amount of people who have sex responsibly. I'm not sure why abstinence needs to be thrown out the window though. This doesn't mean I want to lessen the amount or importance of safe sex. *end birth control discussion* I still don't see what's wrong with my examples. They reflect, and accurately so, what's happening in the United States. It doesn't have to be that way. The resources to prevent all of it are readily available here, and yet it persists. My argument was to illustrate the ways in which sex can be harmful. I never claimed, for example, that ALL promiscuity spreads disease. But enough of it does. The act of sexual intercourse itself isn't to blame of course but rather the irresponsibility and ignorance of those involved. I'm against causing harm on a mental level as well, but nobody asked me about that so I didn't include that in my answer. And while there may be things someone can do to upset a partner as much or worse than having sex with another, sex still has to be near the top of that list. Soluzar explained many other flaws in my answer about how sex can be harmful. Most of it centers around the idea, "Sex can do that, but so can a billion other things". Don't wanna argue those points. Can't really argue against those points. But to me this highlights a shortcoming in the question itself in that it is way too simple. Strippers and porn stars abused stats: My original source was a general practitioner and a comedian on a call in sex/drug advice radio show. Most of what I could find online was purely anecdotal and most of those seem to link sexual abuse with involvement in the sex industry. A few do deny these claims. A doctor named Mary Anne Layden said "Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60-80 percent". Couldn't find any info on that research though. Here's one tiny article... Sexual Abuse as a Precursor to Prostitution and Victimization Among Adolescent and Adult Homeless Women -- SIMONS and WHITBECK 12 (3): 361 -- Journal of Family Issues What disturbed during my (brief) research was the amount of violence and abuse towards strippers. Here's one such article describing that sentiment... Porn Myth 2 Extrapolating this evidence towards prostitution would be another argument against its legalization. Far too many people who are sexually active are not practicing safe sex. I don't think everyone needs to adhere to my own personal standards. But i do think a great many people could and should be more responsible when they have sex. Wear a condom, get tested, be aware that other people's emotions are at stake. Having sex with a stranger can be and often is highly irresponsible whether money is involved or not. Tired. Late. Work to do. Thanks for yelling at me. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
According to census data in 2006, Nevada is ranked 8th in having the highest rape rate. (per capita) Attributing the lower STD/STI rates solely due to the influence of legal prostitution is just as shallow. Sex Education plays just as big of a role as prostitution in preventing STDs/STIs. The health care industry would play a even bigger role in preventing the spread of STDs/STIs. It's not like everybody fucks prostitutes.
I was speaking idiomatically. |
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That link will provide patent information for magic tricks. This is where the bio-tech corporation comparison comes into play. It gets even better.... I mean absolutely hilarious given the context we're talking about.
This really isn't a problem right now because brothels in Nevada are too busy in finding some way to obtain legitimacy. That would more then likely change once sex has been commercialized, thus legitimized on a broader scale. All it's gonna take is one person to start a legal action after prostitution is legalized. I don't think this is a legal problem for Germany and the Netherlands. Differing legal system from ours. This is all just legal conjecture though. It's not like there's anybody, lawyer or otherwise that would want to manipulate the legal system for their own gain. FELIPE NO |
Would anyone want their sister to be a prostitute? How about their child? Spouse? Parent? I'm seriously interested in what people think about this. Does prostitution bear an unfair negative stigma? Or is there something inherently undesirable about that profession? Thanks. Gotta go back to dragging the rest of America down to my level of scum. It's tough work being a detriment to society. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Now, would you want your daughter, if her life long dream is to become a prostitute, working on the streets, or would you rather see her in an establishment that is well organized, has benefits, and seems to be low risk due to it's shelter, and overall knowledge that a business like this would be slightly dangerous, so the security is bumped up? If my daughter's going to be selling herself in anyway for cash, the least I can hope for is that it's in a relatively safe environment. You'd be a cold, heartless bastard to wish otherwise, and if you want to disown your child, that's fine...THAT IS YOUR CHOICE...same as it is their choice to want to be in that profession. As for a wife or husband, well, different strokes for different folks. If you meet a prostitute and fall in love, and she does the same...once again, would you rather be it in a situation that she is unable to get out of because of her pimp? Or would you rather have her be able to easily say 'I quit' and give her two weeks notice? If you are already married, and she decides or he decides they want to become a 'ho, everyone is going to handle it in a different way. Why you ask? Well, because that's the thing about christianity not ruling everyone in the world with an iron fist. Like it or not, we have free will, and no one can tell us how to live our lives. The only time they can is if we go out of our way to physically harm, or cause emotional harm to someone else, and becoming a prostitute well, depending on the person you are with, that could hurt them mentally of course...just like if you are offered a job promotion, and you have to either move the kids (thus harming htem emotionally by having to lose their friends and such) or if you have to break up with a guy or gal because you have to move and they don't want to. Simply put, killerpineapple, the only reason prostitution bears a negative symbol is because your dainty little religion barred it as such. Just think, if the people who wrote the bible oh...let's say had a thing against people who were hair stylists back in the days, cut hair...it might be TABOO to get your hair cut! My personal belief is that each one of them tried to get with a hookah, and they didn't have enough cash, thus leading them to say prostitues were BAD NEWS. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Thanks for answering.
There's a lot of people like myself who would be utterly heartbroken if someone they loved got involved in prostitution. Of course everyone is entitled to exercise their free will, but at times it leads to bad decisions. And while some bad decisions are an inevitable part of life, it would be horribly sad if someone I care about turns to prostitution. For me it's a bad decision for anyone to make which is the major reason why I'm against the legalization of it. Stupid question? I can see why it would seem like that. Is it safe to assume then that the overwhelming majority of people do not approve of prostitution if it involves a loved one? Grail (correct me if I'm wrong) appeared to indicate that prostitution carries an undeserved negative stigma. I'm still curious to see what more people in this forum think about that. For me, I don't like prostitution. I will actively protect the ones I love from becoming involved. It doesn't make me the scum-of-the-earth just because I want to protect strangers too. The counter argument is "You have no right to tell me what to do". I have respect for the notion that government can't tell people what to do with their lives and their bodies. However, I disagree with that when it comes to issues such as these. It's a matter of (tacky part coming up) love. I know it interferes with free will, but just because you want to do something doesn't necessarily qualify that you should be allowed to. I'm guessing that's the major point many people disagree with me on. I understand that point of view and even though I don't share it. Legalizing prostitution will no doubt protect those involved. While true, to me that's a backwards argument for legalizing it. It's an illegal activity in 98% of the country. The vast majority of people find it to be an undesirable activity and a shortcoming to society. If that's the will of the people then efforts should be towards eliminating it altogether. Can such a feat be accomplished? With the way things are going, probably not. Doesn't mean we should give up entirely. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
I'm not sure entirely, perhaps someone can find a source for me that backs this statement I make up. But I believe I heard somewhere a while ago, that back in the day, and I mean before christ, before all this religion hoohaa got so way out of hand...being a prostitute was a magnificent way to make a living, and if you were a whore, albeit an attractive one, in a lot of cases you lived a life of luxury, and often times if someone in power, a political figure if you will be it a King, Prince, Advisor or whatnot...if they fancied you, then you were set for life. And once again you go into the "I don't like the idea of it, so it shoudln't be legalized". Well, a lot of people don't like the war in Iraq, but guess what? It's still going on. So people learn to deal with it, and the war going on right now has probably cost more lives than prostitution ever would if it was legalized. An idiotic argument, but it matches what you believe about the whole situation it seems. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
Yeah, this is going to be the point where most people are going to have to disagree with you, since most people don't think that our government should be playing nanny for adults.
This also doesn't account for why, necessarily, prostitution is a bad decision. With social and economic opportunities being the way they are for many people it can actually be the best decision, pimps and all. Are conservatives like you willing to give people the relief to keep them from turning tricks? I was speaking idiomatically. |
People like killerpineapple here, they don't care about people in general, all they care about are the people they 'fall in love with' or family members and how they can further protect their morals. They are like a subtle Westboro Baptist Church. How ya doing, buddy? |
Prostitution is just something that makes straight laced people uncomfortable. Too bad. That's not a good enough reason. FELIPE NO John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
I care a great deal for people in general. So do a lot of people who share my views. Maybe that makes us a minority, even in the Christian world. A sad state of affairs to be sure. But to say that I want people to suffer as much as possible when they do something I consider wrong is completely untrue. Please don't make assumptions about me, or anyone for that matter. Invariably you tend to be wrong. Sometimes, as in this case, completely wrong. While a host of other reasons have come up, the most powerful argument I stand beside when countering legalized prostitution is the moral basis. Obviously I'm going to automatically stand at odds with those who don't feel that government shouldn't regulate morality. It is indeed a free country. Nevertheless, laws do exist that regulate morality. I'm clearly not in favor of abolishing all these laws. I'd imagine that would mean most of us are clearly unhappy with the legal system here. If enough of the country cherishes those sentiments then a change in the future will surely happen. I can't really compare prostitution to gay marriage, anal sex, and um...colorful sexual habits. Totally separate issues that need to be handled as such, if they even need to be addressed in the first place. But you're right Deni, being merely 'uncomfortable' isn't enough of a reason to enact policy. The effect prostitution has on people (in my opinion) is damaging to them on a physical and mental level. This damage extends beyond the two people involved and begins to affect others. There is abuse associated with prostitution and after a little research I realized that legalizing it won't automatically solve those problems. I'm not blindly following my religious teachings...I've analyzed it, pondered it, and I honestly agree with it. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
I want to follow that particular line of debate to see where it leads. I've had this discussion before, and as such I don't believe that morality is legislated to any great extent in America. I believe that attempts have been made to do so, but they have largely been defeated. I think that you're looking at some of the things that the law does protect and seeing "morality" when really it's something else that has the protection of the law. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
There's nowhere I can't reach. John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
I have an idea, how about we abolish schools altogether? Because I know my entire high school career was icky, and I personally believe that the world would be a better place without teachers and establishments in which they can do their craft. See how silly your words are above now? This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |