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Welcome to the Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis. |
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This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
however, in direct contradiction to what you said, we have to kill/assimilate all of the insurgents to win... good luck there. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
Any victory we get out of this will be meaningless if we can never create enough returns that will make up for the loss of lives and capital. Right now I can't see Iraq as anything other than a charybdis that consumes money and vomits debt.
I was speaking idiomatically. |
Insurgencies can't go on forever, especially when they tend to kill more civillians than actual soldiers. Insurgencies win because they make things difficult for the politicians who command the troops back at home. The insurgents can only win if we choose to give up. Every day that passes, we eliminate their support base because everytime we engage them we kill them by the DOZENS and they tend to kill hundreds of the people they claim to be 'liberating' from American occupation. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
But is US winning, no matter how long it takes, the course of least harm?
FELIPE NO |
I'm really worried about potential backlash against American troops in Iraq. We've had quite enough casualties already as of late.
Most amazing jew boots |
true, same here. But what would it show the world if we were to 'weak' to do what needs to be done? (actually the Iraqis tried him, not us anyway, but...) it would show a lot of things...none the least of which is that anyone can do that kind of stuff, and have no repercussions from it Jam it back in, in the dark.
Hold on just one second....when I signed up for life, this was not what I was expecting. Can I get a refund?
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Yes, the Iraq War is costly as hell and could've (and should've) been prosecuted much better than it has, but the costs associated with having to deal with an Islamic axis in the Middle East is a far greater cost. The cost of winning is preferrrable to the cost of losing. How ya doing, buddy? |
I might agree with you Phoenix, but the Republicans have done a poor job selling that story to the American public. I think you'll see proof of that as the election results come in tonight. The cost of losing is high, but the track record of the current administration suggests another approach will be employed.
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
People's decision to elect Democrats into power is a sign of weakness, nothing more, nothing less. We know what the Democrats want to do - give up.
10 years down the road, the decision to turn over power to the Democratic Party will come back to bite us harder than even I can begin to fathom right now. Iraq will implode completely once we surrender to the insurgents and withdraw, Iran will help the Shites take control and it'll become a mirror of their former enemy. Together, they'll go after Israel and one domino after another will fall. Good job, Americans. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I thought most democrats just wanted a faster way out. Not to suddenly give up. Most of the time when I hear one talk about Iraq they do not say they're going to get us out of Iraq right now. They say they just want a faster route out of Iraq. But that we're not leaving anytime soon. Not untill Iraq is stable atleast.
I dont see how anyone could reasonably believe anyone would get us out before Iraq is stable. Most amazing jew boots
Stuff goes here~
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The policy of the Democratic Party is withdrawal. Of course they aren't going to demand the immediate removal of troops, but they have been since '04 demanding some sort of 'timetable', which basically amounts to "American troops will leave on ___" which tells the insurgents that all they have to do is chill the fuck out until American troops leave and then just unleash hell during the ensuing power vacuum.
Do you think during World War II that the opposition party was sitting back demanding a timetable as to when we would stop fighting the Japanese and Germans (I'm keenly aware that SOME Republicans probably were arguing something similar, but in no way are the like the modern-day Democrats)? Fuck no. No, it was "The troops will come home when the battle is won" - period, point-blank.
Whether they call it withdrawal or redeployment, the policy of the Democratic Party is simple: Give up. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Can you at least acknowledge that the job the Bush administration has done in Iraq has been horribly misguided, if guided at all, and suffered from lack of communication at several levels? Not saying we should give up here, but we've been over there a while now... Republicans still dont have a time table, or a real semblance of a plan.
FELIPE NO |
How ya doing, buddy? |
Apropos of nothing, Night Phoenix, you seem to be a very bang-up kind of guy. Very support the troops. Aren't you of enlistable age? Jam it back in, in the dark. |
We can't be certain of the future, no matter how confidently you try and predict it. What we can be certain of though is that no matter with we withdraw tomorrow or dig in or ten years, Iraq is fucked either way. There is going to be years of bloody violence there, a combination of anarchy chaos occupations and civil war. The question is; do you really want to be part of it?
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Come to think of it, what dominoes do the terrorists have to fall in the first place? It's not like militant Wahabbi doesn't already have a stranglehold on Arab nations.
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
Again, I'm not for being in Iraq forever, just long enough so that we can make sure the Iraqi government is strong enough to handle shit on their own. If we leave right now, then it's outright surrender.Given the majority I just woke up to, it's fairly certain that America will leave prematurely, giving the Democrats their self-fulfilling prophecy because they've been determined to see Iraq fail from day one and have done everything in their power to undermine the policy, with the requisite help from the most incompetent administration I've ever encountered.
Besides, why don't you just come out with your idiotic "You can't support the war unless you're in the military" argument instead of trying to veil it?
But maybe I'm wrong, maybe surrender is the right policy and everything will be better if America refuses to engage the enemy and just plays defense. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I was speaking idiomatically. |
what I find funny is the fact he wanted to reconcile the tension between the people AFTER he got sentenced to die. typical isn't it?
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? You know what? you just might be full enough of shit to apply for congress |
The problem with all this "we need to stay until the job is done" crap is that the problem right now is sectarian violence. Iraqis fighting Iraqis. The U.S. doesn't have the solution to that -- Iraq does. This isn't something we can solve. Sticking around and helping repel any foreign fighters is alright, but really, at this point it's up to the Iraqis to resolve their own civil war, not us.
FELIPE NO |
But shouldn't the US be responsible for cleaning up their mess?
It's not like the Iraqis started this civil war out of boredom. Removing Saddam has left a vacuum - and nobody has come up with a solution to fill it. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
The job is failing because we can't (or aren't) doing it. We don't put enough into fixing Iraq. All the money we've spent on this war, and we can't even control a force that has no major central figure heading it. We're supposedly the best force in the history of mankind and we can't even control Iraq. We've been at it for 5 years and we can't control an area the size of Arizona. And we probably never will, considering that 30-40% of the Iraqi population (at least) doesn't even want us to. Perhaps you need to focus less on whether we can win or lose or whether or not what the hell we are doing is winnable at all. And the corollary to what you are arguing is that the Iraqis, the ones we want as friends, they will never step up unless we force them to. The initial wave of the war has been over how long? And how much progress has been made? Pulling out immediately is wrong. But there isn't anything wrong with saying to Iraq, "Look, fuckers, we came in here and took care of the worst shit for you guys, now learn to fucking deal with your own problems." Jam it back in, in the dark.
Last edited by BlueMikey; Nov 8, 2006 at 03:36 PM.
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It's good news, NP. Wounded veterans with missing limbs are being sent back to Iraq, so your injury might not be as big of a burden as you might think.
But you're mistaken about my argument, sir. You can support the troops until the cows come home while being a civilian, that's silly to say that you can't. But, I don't see you crying over flag-draped coffins or bitching about vet benefits being cut back, in this thread. You're smart enough to read what I'm trying to say. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Understand this and understand it well, lurker. I support the U.S. military to the highest degree possible for a civillian. While I don't break down and cry everytime I hear about soldiers dying over there, it does indeed disturb me, but alas, that's what happens during wars - soldiers die. I got a brother who has served five tours in Iraq, another that's served since 2001 in Afghanistan, so to say that I have basically nothing at stake here, that I'm just totally detached from the reality that soldiers do die in war is bullshit.
That's one of the few things that someone could say to my face that would get the piss knocked out of them. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |