Society's unwritten rules.

What about rules for interactions with waiters? We just went out to eat and I was thinking about this. It appears I've actually got quite a few expectations of waiters. Like for instance, I shouldn't have to ask to have my water glass refilled. If I put it at the edge of the table, that should be indication enough. They also shouldn't talk to me beyond taking my order, that just seems like an invasion of privacy to me. When they do fill my water glass, a brief "thank you" or nod if my mouth is full should be sufficient. I tip well regardless but I feel more generous toward waiters who respect the fact that they're really not supposed to be a visible part of my dining experience. It'd be interesting to hear from a waiter/waitress's point of view on this.

Of course, when I'm drunk that's a different story. Sass can attest I then play grab ass with the waiters, and tip way way too much. >.>;;

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

What about rules for interactions with waiters? We just went out to eat and I was thinking about this. It appears I've actually got quite a few expectations of waiters. Like for instance, I shouldn't have to ask to have my water glass refilled. If I put it at the edge of the table, that should be indication enough. They also shouldn't talk to me beyond taking my order, that just seems like an invasion of privacy to me. When they do fill my water glass, a brief "thank you" or nod if my mouth is full should be sufficient. I tip well regardless but I feel more generous toward waiters who respect the fact that they're really not supposed to be a visible part of my dining experience. It'd be interesting to hear from a waiter/waitress's point of view on this.

Of course, when I'm drunk that's a different story. Sass can attest I then play grab ass with the waiters, and tip way way too much. >.>;;

Hmmm, that is an interesting point. I too feel the same way. I don't tip much or at all if the waiter/waitress hasn't refilled my glass after its empty, or doesn't come back to check on us. I would say there are a lot of unwritten rules for that job... which in turn is part of the reason why I dare not to apply for a job like that.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

What about rules for interactions with waiters? We just went out to eat and I was thinking about this. It appears I've actually got quite a few expectations of waiters. Like for instance, I shouldn't have to ask to have my water glass refilled. If I put it at the edge of the table, that should be indication enough. They also shouldn't talk to me beyond taking my order, that just seems like an invasion of privacy to me. When they do fill my water glass, a brief "thank you" or nod if my mouth is full should be sufficient. I tip well regardless but I feel more generous toward waiters who respect the fact that they're really not supposed to be a visible part of my dining experience. It'd be interesting to hear from a waiter/waitress's point of view on this.

Of course, when I'm drunk that's a different story. Sass can attest I then play grab ass with the waiters, and tip way way too much. >.>;;

Around here, a waitor usually comes around once in awhile and checks the table and as well asks if you need anything else. Atleast a good waitor does. And a waitor/waitress as well, you usually have to ask them for a refill or whatever means, it's just how it is up here but half the time they ask/make sure you have everything and things are full.

I was speaking idiomatically.

My tips are generally completely dependent upon that refilling. If I order a refillable drink and it sits there empty for a while, no tip. NONE.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Brent, what is more of an insult then no tip is this. Two pennies heads up. That'll piss some people off.

Speaking of which, tipping for me is more of thier manner and how they act, look and etc.

How ya doing, buddy?

I used to stick with the old common 15% tip rate. That is, until I learned how much of a crap wage wait staff actually makes. So if the service is good, I'll tip more than that; if it's bad, it's the flat 15%.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I think the idea of tipping based on a percentage of your check is silly. If you walk into a place and order a single plate, like a $50 steak or lobster tail and a glass of water, then why should I hand over a minimum of 7.50? They're doing no more work than if I'd ordered a single plate at Chilis for 9 bucks. I tip generously for good service, but why should I tip higher just because the market price of my lobster tail is a small fortune?

I've also gathered that gratuity is very much an American thing. I was in Melbourne a few years back and locals were confused when I tipped at a restaurant. Also, what's with restaurants in Melbourne with no free refills on soft drinks?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I never eat at places where the meals costs $50, so I never thought about that.

As for America, I think part of why wait staff only gets about half of minimum wage is because it's expected they'll make it up in tips. It is pretty crappy.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I agree with a lot of the points made here, but coming from an ex-server's perspective, I do think that a percentage of your bill is fair. It's like comparing a garbage man to a neurosurgeon. The neurosurgeon should make a lot more money because he is a more skilled worker. His employment status is a lot higher than that of a garbage man. The same is true of servers. In restaurants where a meal for one person costs $30-$40, for example, you can bet those servers are the best that can be found in that area. They've been in the business longer, have more expertise, and are generally of a higher calibre than the servers at Denny's. It makes sense to me.

About the drink glass thing. I used to work at Outback Steakhouse and it was a rule that if a patron's glass was half-empty, we were to bring that patron another glass of whatever it was he was drinking WITHOUT ASKING. You just do it.

Avalokiteshvara, I am with you 100% about overly-attentive servers. It's rude and inappropriate. I don't want to hear your life story; nor did I come to your restaurant to be entertained by you. Just be polite and do your damn job.

Brent and Zio, I hate you both.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by MetheGelfling

I've also gathered that gratuity is very much an American thing. I was in Melbourne a few years back and locals were confused when I tipped at a restaurant. Also, what's with restaurants in Melbourne with no free refills on soft drinks?

For some reason I seem to recall that they factor the tip into the price of the meal in other countries. Or maybe that has something to do with tax, I don't know.


I tip 20% unless the service sucks. It's easy to divide by 5. I don't eat out very often, so I don't mind.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I hate to think that chivalry is dead. I'm now officially on a quest to bring chivalry back one GFF member at a time.

I don't think it's dead... it's just gone into hibernation for the most part. At least from where I live people don't give a rat's ass about one another... and then you have me, the freak... who will hold the door open for another party coming in or out behind us... will allow for the women at my table to order first (typically I'll simply state something like "Jen?" to let my wife know that we are good to go and she can make the decision whether she's ready to order or not... something I am trying to instill in my younger brother as well)... open and close the car door for any female getting into my car (not able to run around the back of the car fast enough to open it for them to get out though)... et cetera.

As for the handshaking thing... I'm not a big fan of touching. Especially hands. I'll give my friends a hug when I greet them... but strangers I have a difficult time finding myself shaking hands with anyone. My hands will typically be found clasped behind my back and I'll do a slight bow or dip of the head when being introduced to someone.


But is chivalry dead? No... there are some of us who still practice it. Just in the current realm of people being self-centered, it's taken a backseat to everything else.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Personal space. The concept of personal space is pretty much important (at least to me). Hell, it's nigh acceptable (and welcomed) to hug and to give a hug. I prefer to shake hands instead. Wrong or not?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Brent and Zio, I hate you both.

You'd only have cause to if you didn't keep my glass full. I don't think there's a problem with tipping someone based on the service they offer. If they don't give me any service, why should I give them money? Maybe they'll learn from it and try harder next time.

The part that makes me feel bad about that is that I know that a lot of the time the tips are split with the cooking staff, so I feel bad shorting them due to the inability of a server to do his or her job. But then I remember that empty glass, and I get over it.

Servers who think they deserve to get tipped for doing NOTHING is bullshit, and pisses me off. I don't get a tip at my job, and if they're not gonna go above and beyond then neither should they.

FELIPE NO

But even if they fail to keep your drink refilled (and I agree that this is unacceptable), it's not like they've done nothing for you. Just don't tip them as much. And damn it, there's no excuse for someone to require 10 drink refills during the course of one meal. I have waited on people whose glass is literally impossible to keep refilled. I had other tables, too, and filling someone's drink every five or ten minutes was just impossible.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

But Alice, I drink a lot of water. =( I don't think 4 glasses is that difficult. =/ And really, I understand a waiter's busy, but I figure if they go by once, then they've seen the empty glass. If they go by again, they should be able to fill it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Niekon

But is chivalry dead? No... there are some of us who still practice it. Just in the current realm of people being self-centered, it's taken a backseat to everything else.

I don't think it has anything to do with self-centerendness, but rather it's a matter of cultural norms. Guys are afraid to open doors for women and such because we don't want to insult their independence. However, guys are pretty much screwed either way these days.

If you open a door for somebody you get:

"Do I look like I'm not capable of opening this door? I can do it myself THANK YOU VERY MUCH! STOP SMOTHERING ME!!!"

or if you don't and you decide that this chick is looking rather "independent" or whatever you get:

"I can't believe it; some people are just SO RUDE! I'm a goddamn princess and you'd better treat me like one! Throw your coat in a puddle so I can step on it!"

Women killed chivalry by being confusing.

How ya doing, buddy?

Why do you hate me? I only do the two penny tip if someone fucks up big. I mean as in get the order wrong, doesn't care about me and etc. That if you don't look prepared for the job aka pink hair, lip rings and chewing bubble gum(Which is unsanitory to begin with.) and probaly other things. Come on, it makes you look like you don't even want to be there or if you give me an atttitude when I question you about food or that you possibly had messed up.

(And that is not based off of refills cause I usually don't need refills as I eat my food.)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I have waited on people whose glass is literally impossible to keep refilled. I had other tables, too, and filling someone's drink every five or ten minutes was just impossible.

One time I had a bus boy who seemed to fill my water glass whenever I took a sip. So I took it upon myself to try to finish my glass of water before he could refill it. I think I eventually succeeded, but I had to pee for about five straight minutes by the time I got home.

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I had a girl waiting on me once who would have my glass refilled without me even noticing she walked by. I was amazed, and I tipped her HUGE.

If she managed to keep it full, so can everyone else, and if they can't, well, then they're not as good, and they don't deserve to be paid as if they are.

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I'd say that also depends on how busy the place is and how much staff they have on hand.

I worked at Burger King one summer and working understaffed is hell. The BK I worked at got a lot of business, so falling behind because they didn't schedule enough morning crew sucked a LOT. It's not that we weren't trying. Course it still doesn't matter to the customers. They can't see how many people are on staff. So it can't really be used as an excuse, but it would be nice if customers would sometimes consider there may be a valid reason for the lag.

Drinks are so important in the food service world. I learned to give cups out RIGHT AWAY, because for some reason, having at least a drink makes the wait on food a lot easier. That should be a BIG unwritten rule!

...

There was one time where a waitress gave such bad service that I wanted to tip her poorly. I can't remember exactly what she did, but she had an ATTITUDE and it pissed me off. Unfortunately, I was with a large group and the tip was factored INTO the bill. That pissed me off too. On the flipside, that place had one of the best hot turkey and gravy sandwiches I've ever had.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

You're supposed to let ladies order first, walk through doors first, etc. You're also supposed to give up your seat to a lady in a crowded waiting room or train. Didn't your parents teach you any manners?

if theres a girl

who is standing on a bus, while i'm sitting

and i offer her my seat, it just looks like i'm coming onto her in a really plain and creepy way.


so i keep my seat.

FELIPE NO

I really couldn't care less what written or unwritten rules are considered socially mandatory. I aim to please myself.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Could or couldn't? I'm confused.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

The phrase is "I couldn't care less." "Could" implies that you actually care, since you "could" care less than you do. I hate it when people say things without thinking about what their words mean.

Personally, I don't really care how good the service is, I tip whatever I can spare (usually $2-4) so long as the service was acceptable. Do a competent job, get a tip. It's only if they get the order wrong, or are nowhere to be found when my glass is empty (I don't mind asking, but I'd like someone to hear me), or something along those lines that I don't tip.

Chivalry isn't dead. Some folks, myself included, are dedicated to ensuring that it's alive and well as long as we are. Granted, it needed a few updates to allow for the realization that, OMG!, women are actually people. But we're workin' on it. :P



In most circumstances, is it not rude to ask your host for things other than drink? Fellow pot smokers, is it not highly rude to ask for reefer when you have none? I don't care how much you fiend, you only take what's offered to you, and is it not the same for all things when you're a guest in someone's house? I mean, unless you're my best friend, I always hate it when someone asks me "Hey man, ya got any food here?"

BTW, some social rules are stupid, Krusty 69, and thinking for yourself is important, but some rules are there for a very good reason. For example: It's an unwritten rule that you don't spit in people's faces or piss on their children. We don't have a book of ettiquite that states that, but I think it's safe to assume that we look down on that kinda behavior.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Wow, you're right. It should be "couldn't," I'll fix it for you. OMG FREAK OUT!!! No need to be an asshole, are you the fucking grammar police?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.