[Movie] L O S T [possible spoilers]

Wow. True love is stupid sad sometimes.

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And what the fuck are these 'rules' that locke is supposedly bound to? What or who could possibly make him, of all people, try to kill everyone in such a complicated fashion?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sass

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Jack was wrong about them not being able to be killed,

Not exactly.

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This episode revealed something BIG — the only way a candidate/someone touched by Jacob can die is to be killed by another candidate. The man in black can't kill them, nobody else can kill them and accidental deaths can't kill them. The second Sawyer yanked the wire out of the bomb and set the timer going, though, the blame for their deaths was no longer MiB's; it was his.

Sawyer killed Sun, Jin and Sayid. If Hurley and Jack hadn't made it out of the sub themselves, they'd be dead. Since candidates/Jacob-touched people can't kill themselves, though (as shown with Richard with the dynamite a few episodes back), Sawyer would have survived no matter what. If nobody had touched the bomb, it would have ticked down to zero and nothing would have happened. If Lapidus or Kate had yanked the wire out out, again, nothing would have happened.

This is the "loophole" the man in black talked about in his first appearance. He can't kill the candidates, but he can get them to kill one another... Until there's only one left.

Doesn't explain why there are apparently some ex-candidates who are still alive, though (e.g. Kate).

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Mouthful of Pirates

Doesn't explain why there are apparently some ex-candidates who are still alive, though (e.g. Kate).

Plot armor that comes with being one of the main actors on the show. Too bad, too, since I'd love to see her fucking gone forever.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Mouthful of Pirates

Not exactly.

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Sawyer killed Sun, Jin and Sayid.

Don't forget Frank "Aw Hell" Lapidus.

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These latest events are strongly hinting at Jack becoming the next Jacob. I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of informative backstory next week, and I'm stupidly excited to finally learn a bit about the two characters most shrouded in mystery.

Also, I wouldn't write Kate off as being invincible just because she's a main character. The writing is flawed but that would be a pretty massive oversight. I think her purpose has yet to be revealed. Here's hoping.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by sprouticus

Don't forget Frank "Aw Hell" Lapidus.

And the submarine pilot and the other guy, but I was mainly going for important characters.

Sorry, Frank

Additional Spam:
also, katers gonna kate

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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You know, this episode really pissed me off in a lot of ways.

First and foremost, WTF Sawyer. I've always kind of liked Sawyer's character (even when I hated him in the first seasons, I hated him so much that I loved his character), but Tuesday's episode ruined it for me. Sawyer really needs to realize that he's really not keyed in on what's going on around him.

Secondly, I'm getting really tired of everything dragging along. It just seems that these "loopholes" are bullshit. If Flocke really needed the candidates to kill each other, I'm sure he could have directly manipulated them into doing it by now. After all, he had Sayid pretty much directly under his thumb. I'm pretty sure he could have fed him some lies.

I did like how Jin and Sun died. I thought they were uninteresting characters that had very little place in the show. They were written into the show very poorly in the later seasons. I was especially glad to see Sun go. Now if only Kate could die too, I would be a very happy person. I'm tired of her acting all self-righteous about everything.

/end rant

Really looking forward to next week's episode!

Also I went back and took a look at "young Locke" (the Locke with a fake wig) and had a pretty good lol session.

Anthony Cooper was his Dad? Right. They're like, what, 10 years apart in age?

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Now that I think about it, it makes sense that Sawyer didn't trust Jack. After all, the last time he trusted Jack, Juliet ended up dead. gg Jack.

Also, that was the weakest C4 ever. Why the fuck didn't you just throw the bomb then Sayid?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Some of my friends play on the scoring sessions, and yesterday was LAST DAY of recording. Here are some images from the final recording session.

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This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

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So I wonder if someone else went down the same waterfall TMIB did what would happen.

Also, how did Jacob's "mother" end up on the island? RAADASDDQWRQQFV NEW MYSTERIES

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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I'd imagine Jacob being a swarm of skittles.

I would think their 'mother' got there just like how everyone else got there, the island protector at the time willed them there looking for a future replacement. Didn't she thank MIB after getting stabbed? She seemed relieved to be killed off after officially making her replacement.

I was speaking idiomatically.

What sucks is that this last episode brought a lot more questions than it answered.

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So a magical fountain wtf? Kind of annoying that they wasted time flashing back to Jack's time when he found the bodies seeing as how it still didn't really explain the significance of it.

On the positive side, it was a pretty good overall episode. I didn't get bored or space out, so that's a plus.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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That flash back to the Adam and Eve scene was pretty much just the writers' attempt at saying "see you guys we knew what we were doing from the start, so there :smug:". I'm sure it was nice for many people though; I for one only remembered the Adam and Eve thing a few weeks ago when I was lostpedia'ing.

Solid episode though. Not as strong as the last couple, and the Richard episode I feel was more involving. Though this gave the island a nice bit of background (nice seeing a relatively thorough answer to the 'wheel' question), and established the motives of Jacob and Man-in-Black pretty well. Not gonna touch the crazy "mother" character with a ten-foot pole though, holy crap I mean what.

And a theory: was the purpsoe of the temple (you know, the location of three or so wasted episodes, humble abode of samurai and John Lennon etc) perhaps to safeguard the water/light/"soul" of the island? The fact that they believed that pool of water was special, and that it indirectly brought Sayid back to life would suggest that Man-in-Black somehow has control over that body of water. Perhaps it's where his presence lies, who knows.

FELIPE NO

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So perhaps the island needs to be destroyed before the Man-in-Black can be defeated? Also, just came to a conclusion: no one can protect the island anymore, since TMIB broke "Mother's" wine bottle.

I like how there's going to be three episodes in five days. The resolution of this show will come at us fast and furious, just how it needs to.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I'd be lying if I said that this week's episode was anything other than a let-down of biblical proportions.

Warning, long:

I was excited as all hell to finally learn the origin story of Jacob and the still-unnamed MIB. They had a chance to shed some light the two most mysterious characters in the show and... Well... They kinda squandered it. Okay fine, they didn't completely squander it. I suppose we know a few new things about them.

- They're twin brothers
- Their birth mother came from outside the island
- Their "adoptive" mother is a weirdo who once served under the Bartlett administration.
- Jacob isn't just protecting the island, he's protecting some golden light. Maybe the Triforce of Wisdom?
- "Adam and Eve" are the MIB and Alison Janney.

That's kinda it. If there was any doubt that the Adam and Eve skeletons were these two people, it was completely erased with the abundant amount of flashbacks to drive the point home for a less astute audience. It was nice at first, but then they kept going with it and it just felt a little stale. I really REALLY wish they hadn't ended the episode when it did. Like with Richard, I was hoping for a larger scope in this flashback, and if any two people deserved it, it's these two. I'm dying to find out how Jacob and MIB's rivalry got started, but they ended it at a very mysterious point that I will get to down below after I rant for a bit.

An increasingly annoying Lost archetype reared its ugly head once again in the form of this very enlightening conversation:

"You must protect the light"
"What does it do?"
"I can't say"
"Does it kill you?"
"No. It's worse than death"
"I've heard enough to undertake this mammoth responsibility, hand me the wine!"

Seriously, lately this show has just been maddeningly sloppy in how it writes in these mysteries. They are no longer genuine mysteries and are instead byproducts of characters behaving stupidly. How can you tell me with a straight face that this mystery of what the light is couldn't have been wrapped up in that conversation if it was written by writers who know how people talk and behave? It easily could have. Hell, she could have just as easily said "I don't know but I know that it's important, so quit being a brat and guard it, dick."

But no, they chose to just forcefully and arbitrarily withhold information. It's such shitty writing that it drives me crazy, and it pains me to say that because this show is generally very well-written, and even though I've always hated the dialogue since season 1, it's never annoyed me quite as much as it did tonight. I feel like the writers knocked it out of the park when it comes to creating and connecting the mysteries and developing this rich character-driven mythology, but have time and time again, especially lately, completely failed in actually PRESENTING these mysteries to the audience. It's almost a parody of itself at this point because whenever we're presented a mystery it's usually because some character is just not spilling the beans for NO reason whatsoever. This latest one with Jacob's faux-mom is just the most retarded one of them all. There's no excuse for this kind of shitty writing, even for a mystery show. Hell, even in how they dodged saying the MIB's name felt stupid and forced. The only person who calls their brother "brother" more than Jacob did tonight is Buster Bluth.

However, this episode wasn't a complete wash. There is one rather LARGE and intriguing mystery that surprisingly enough developed naturally and not through idiotic dialogue. I'm referring, of course, to when the smoke monster came flying out of the cave of light and then Jacob found his brother dead nearby. This tells us one thing: The MIB may not be smokey. Smokey may be something else entirely. I feel like Smokey is now this "light" that Alison Janney talked about, and Jacob needs to protect it from escaping the island. Or something. And maybe their rivalry stems from MIB's desire to leave and Jacob's duty to keep him there. That's my best guess here. I was really hoping for a little insight on why Jacob and MIB have been playing this game they've been playing for seemingly an eternity and instead they dragged out this origin story that probably could have taken up 15 minutes of screen time total.

I mean, we know that smokey can exist as someone without their body as proven by John Locke's corpse which was sitting in the sun for a while earlier this season. It's now been all but proven that the smoke monster and the man in black are two separate entities. Perhaps smokey simply takes on the form of someone who haunts you? Christian with Jack, MIB with Jacob, Yemi with Eko... It kinda makes sense, right?

The light in the cave is kinda mystical, kinda gay, but very intriguing. I have a feeling that it will never be explained and will instead serve as a metaphor for the power that all men seek or something of the sort. The power to make them more than mere men. The Pandora's Box theory comes to mind and it very well could be the ultimate answer the writers choose to go with. If this island indeed contains Pandora's Box, it will be a good blanket answer for the mysteries that the show has left unanswered.

Anyway, tonight pretty much flushed all the good vibes I was finally getting from this show right down the shitter. We now have two more episodes to go and my patience is dwindling. Sigh.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I am not as optimistic as Sprout seems to be.

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I almost died when I saw this stupid golden glow river. I was waiting for leprechauns and unicorns to come frolicking out of the hollow and sing Disney songs for us. I was ready to hit someone in the head. I swear to Christ if this is what it all boils down to.... some retarded golden river love canal on a Pacific island....

Meanwhile, I feel like we learned NOTHING IMPORTANT last night. Oh boy, the origins of Jacob and his no-name faggoty-ass brother. That's all fine and good, but now we have to wonder about their stupid mother and HER origins.

It's just like one trip after the next. I remember wondering about Ben Linus the same way I wondered about Jacob. Once I learned about Jacob and the Moving Cabin (ugh), I wanted to know more. But then I learned more. And it's only more CRAP. It's a chain of command that keeps revealing the same horseshit and nothing ever gets RESOLVED.

I'm not even that interested in trying to figure it out anymore. I think the writers are just fucking with us at this point. Nothing makes sense. They know we're not going to walk away so close to the end. I wouldn't be surprised if they DID throw unicorns and leprechauns in, just to see if we'll swallow it.

The past few episodes had me excited. They were improving, they were getting me hopeful, I was enjoying them. I would wait eagerly for the next week's episode. Not so this week. I had high hopes. OH WELL.

I'm looking forward to what Krelian has to say about last night's episode, though. He always seems to have good theories.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

After last night's episode I really only have one thing to say about Lost.

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FUCK THIS FUCKING SHOW

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Oh god how many motifs/themes/dichotomies can you cram into a single fucking episode. Good/evil. Nature/nurture. Faith/science. White/black. Yin/yang. ET FUCKING CETERA.

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Seems like they're trying to cover their tracks re: the events of the first couple of seasons and still keep everything vague/unexplained. It came out in a recent interview that they didn't have the show's mythology properly established until halfway through the second season, so as Sprout said, the whole adam-and-eve explanation reeked of smugness.

Still. Good episode, if a little cheesy. Explained a bit about the original inhabitants of the island. Thought they skirted around MiB's name rather elegantly. I'm not one of the people who wants everything to be explained — I'm happy with there being a couple of leftover abstract mysteries when all is said and done.

Additional Spam:
Also, I find it ironic that the man in black represents Hobbes' view of humanity while Jacob embodies that of Locke (the philosopher, not the character on the show — hence the irony).

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Now that I think about it, the show really feels like the writers L O S T interest (hrhrhr). No but seriously, I mean it's like they wrote themselves into a corner and now they're having a difficult time pulling themselves out of it. It seems like they take it on a day-to-day basis with only cliff notes from the previous seasons to guide them into the new episodes.

Do they even realize they've only got two episodes left?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Randi

It seems like they take it on a day-to-day basis with only cliff notes from the previous seasons to guide them into the new episodes.

Do they even realize they've only got two episodes left?

Your comment was probably made in jest, but they do write an entire season at once, you know.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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I think sprout's right re: smokey. MIB was ultimately just human. Jacob has been contending with this shadow of death that he unleashed in a very Wizard of Earthsea type fashion.

I'm looking for how that child that Locke keeps seeing which is really pissing him off comes into things. If I remember correctly, that was him as a kid. Other people see the kid too, so what's the deal there?

I'm also remembering when Locke first met the smoke monster and it was pure light. It supports sprout's argument that the smoke monster is the light. Life, death, rebirth, etc.

Sucks there won't be a Lost party up in Maine this year.

FELIPE NO

Here's some things I didn't think about before (hope I'm not driving people crazy by posting in this thread too much, but no one else is!):

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So, is Jacob really incapable of lying, or is he just one of those people who's not good at it? That would make a huge difference, seeing as how he explained a lot of things to Richard in Ab Aeterno. If he's incapable of lying, then those things he explained to Richard are true.

Random crap I either took from the Lostipedia forums or thought about myself, or a combination of the two (also more questions):

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Remember how Claudia came back from the dead to visit MiB? How do we know that wasn't the smoke monster coming back to manipulate him into killing that psycho bitch, much like how the smoke monster came back as Alex to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob?

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Claudia Procula is the name of Pontius Pilate's wife. Claudia is the name of Jacob's real mother. The time frame would fit almost perfectly.

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Why the hell does the smoke monster sound mechanical in the earlier seasons? Is it just imitating sounds its learned?

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Far-fetched: Cerberus was the three-headed dog that guarded Hades in greek mythology. In one of the past seasons, they referred to the smoke monster as Cerberus. You can run with that in a lot of different directions, but it's been fairly consistent that the smoke monster is supposed to protect to island, even if it doesn't want to. Maybe Jacob was right and it IS guarding the gates of hell, only now it wants to let everything out. If they're in limbo (the outermost circle of hell, considered to be the true gate to hell), then the smoke monster would truly be guarding the gates of hell. The light could be the mouth of hell, or the gate of hell, or just where the smoke monster (cerberus) sleeps. Probably way off, but interesting thinking nonetheless.

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The writers have stated that Walt is going to come back in Season 6. Maybe we'll finally have an explanation about The Others, baby stealing, Walt's supposed special powers, and more.

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Who's that little kid who keeps punking Flocke? It's played by the same actor as child Jacob.

Ultimately, I don't think ALL the questions need to be answered. I'm okay with them not really explaining where "Mother" came from. That's fine. It's not necessary to know where she came from. What made me smirk was when "Mother" said "every answered question would only bring more questions", or something along those lines. Do the writers think they're clever or something?

They must be the two most egotistical assholes in the world to think that the trash they've been writing for the past couple seasons has fooled anyone into thinking that they're genuine, decent writers. The show has manipulated people into watching it, but not due to great writing, it was due mostly to plot holes and an increasing amount of mysteries. It's kept people watching, it's kept the ratings up, but that doesn't make it quality writing. A good example would be music. There's plenty of popular, shitty music. These writers are hacks and there's no denying it.

Can you guys imagine how good this show would have been if it had decent writers? Maybe we wouldn't be watching this out of obligation.

/pause rant for now

How ya doing, buddy?

YouTube Video

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So, is Jacob really incapable of lying, or is he just one of those people who's not good at it? That would make a huge difference, seeing as how he explained a lot of things to Richard in Ab Aeterno. If he's incapable of lying, then those things he explained to Richard are true.

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I don't think anything Jacob's ever said has been a lie. He hasn't been shown to be dishonest in any of his appearances — the confrontation with Ben in the statue, his post-death conversations with Hurley, the times he appeared to the candidates as kids, et cetera. Whether he's incapable of lying or just unwilling, it's safe to say Jacob never lies.

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Remember how Claudia came back from the dead to visit MiB? How do we know that wasn't the smoke monster coming back to manipulate him into killing that psycho bitch, much like how the smoke monster came back as Alex to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob?

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I'm thinking it's a similar situation with Hurley's visions of the dead. It's been established that MiB is stuck in the form of John Locke now, so we know that appearances of dead people are exactly what they seem. I believe that MiB's encounter with Claudia was legitimate.

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Claudia Procula is the name of Pontius Pilate's wife. Claudia is the name of Jacob's real mother. The time frame would fit almost perfectly.

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Ooh, I like this. The writers have room for creative liberties with history, too, seeing as the details of Pilate's later life are largely apocryphal.

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Why the hell does the smoke monster sound mechanical in the earlier seasons? Is it just imitating sounds its learned?

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Not sure about this one. It definitely made its trademark whirrr-chik-chik-chik noise when it was flying out of the magical grotto, though.

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Far-fetched: Cerberus was the three-headed dog that guarded Hades in greek mythology. In one of the past seasons, they referred to the smoke monster as Cerberus. You can run with that in a lot of different directions, but it's been fairly consistent that the smoke monster is supposed to protect to island, even if it doesn't want to. Maybe Jacob was right and it IS guarding the gates of hell, only now it wants to let everything out. If they're in limbo (the outermost circle of hell, considered to be the true gate to hell), then the smoke monster would truly be guarding the gates of hell. The light could be the mouth of hell, or the gate of hell, or just where the smoke monster (cerberus) sleeps. Probably way off, but interesting thinking nonetheless.

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Actually, this makes sense when you consider how Jacob described the island to Richard: A "cork" preventing darkness from escaping into the rest of the world. The Cerberus analogy continues to hold water if you think of the cave of light as comparable to the mouth of hell.

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The writers have stated that Walt is going to come back in Season 6. Maybe we'll finally have an explanation about The Others, baby stealing, Walt's supposed special powers, and more.

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This has been bugging me, too. Seems like a plotline they abandoned a while back — the only recent development was confirmation of the fact that the statue was of Taweret, an Egyptian fertility goddess, which implies that the Egyptians who lived on the island sometime between the events of the last episode and the present day knew something was up with people making babies on the island.

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Who's that little kid who keeps punking Flocke? It's played by the same actor as child Jacob.

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Jacob magically reincarnated something something something the Force.

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Can you guys imagine how good this show would have been if it had decent writers? Maybe we wouldn't be watching this out of obligation.

I sort of feel this way too. It's faltering pretty strongly in terms of story arcs and character development right now. Unless they have plans to wrap everything up sharpish I have a feeling we're in for a letdown. One of the few redeeming things of the past season has been that the dialogue is generally top-notch, though.

oh god spoiler tags everywhere

How ya doing, buddy?

Over the past few days there've been a bunch of preview events where people got to watch tomorrow's episode, and as a result there are summaries and shit online now. Be warned.

General opinion is that it's supposedly one of the most rewarding episodes of the series and nobody has anything bad to say about it. Keeping my hopes up.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Does it air this Tuesday for the rest of us? I'm really looking forward to this next episode now.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Man, only six more days until Lost is completely over and done with. Ain't that some shit.

Hopes are high for tomorrow night's. We're in the home stretch now!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?