Careers: Money or happiness?

Quote:

The competition in the job market, due to outsourcing and technology, is starting to become ever more challenging (even doctorates are having trouble finding decent jobs).

People make the mistake thinking that a higher education automatically increases your chances at a job. All it does is help you get a second glance on your resume and possibly put you on a list. When 2/3 of the people out there who are employed are employed because they got a hook up, your skills, your competence, and who you network with is what will get you the job you want. I grew up hating the idea that you need to rely on people to get you jobs, but I found my first job on my own, and proved to my boss what I can do, and since then, he's been looking out after me and he will be the best reference for any job I take in the future.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by soapy

People make the mistake thinking that a higher education automatically increases your chances at a job. All it does is help you get a second glance on your resume and possibly put you on a list. When 2/3 of the people out there who are employed are employed because they got a hook up, your skills, your competence, and who you network with is what will get you the job you want. I grew up hating the idea that you need to rely on people to get you jobs, but I found my first job on my own, and proved to my boss what I can do, and since then, he's been looking out after me and he will be the best reference for any job I take in the future.

I agree. My major is probably one of the most connection-oriented majors around (besides business and politics). I do not want to go for a Masters b/c after 18 years of school (I went to kindergarden twice) I want to actually do something with my life that does not involve studyding. However, many of my professors now tell me that a bachelors degree is about the equivalent of a high school degree a decade ago. It's great to hear about how you think the idea of connections to get a job is wrong as well. I just hope I can be that lucky in the future.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Having connections and using them to get jobs isn't really as unethical as it sounds. I used to despise the idea too, but put yourself in the position of the person doing the hiring. You get a bajillion applications from a ton of people who all read those websites and went to those seminars that teach you how to look and sound all snazzy and brilliant, and you're probably pretty jaded about it by now. You throw out the ones who don't look snazzy because you have to weed this gigantic list down to something manageable.

Then it becomes basically an arbitrary decision based on some random little detail that appealed over all the others. Given the volume of applicants, you can't really afford to do a full investigation of each one's strengths and weaknesses and how those would mesh with the rest of the company.

If instead, you knew someone you trusted, who could vouchsafe for the competence of one of your potential employees, it gives that particular applicant so much more credibility that it's simple common sense to pick them over some stranger who could afford shiny designer paper. I'm inclined to think that this practice is less like trading favors and more along the lines of risk assessment and general good business practices.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Shenlon

Money=Happiness ^_^
Unless of course the job is taking your pride then I'd take another one ~_~

Not true. My hubby and I broke into the six digits for the first time ever this year, and he absolutely detests his job, not to mention the fact that he hasn't lived at home with us for two years now. The money is great, but it doesn't keep you warm at night.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

Having connections and using them to get jobs isn't really as unethical as it sounds. I used to despise the idea too, but put yourself in the position of the person doing the hiring. You get a bajillion applications from a ton of people who all read those websites and went to those seminars that teach you how to look and sound all snazzy and brilliant, and you're probably pretty jaded about it by now. You throw out the ones who don't look snazzy because you have to weed this gigantic list down to something manageable.

No I agree, I grew up hating the idea. But now that I'm older and I realize just how hard it is to find a good employee, I can totally understand why people want referrals. I interviewed a couple of people and let's just say, you wonder how some people get jobs in the first place. I got my current job through a referral and I'll probably get my next job through one. I like to try on my own though, but since I'm trying for an industry that isn't easy to break, networking is the way to do it. It's a bit too salesy for me (since I'm in sales now) but now I know why sales people network so much, you can make money. Although my motive isn't about the money, I just want to do something I'll be good at and enjoy.

When you're in my place and 6 figures won't make you want to stay, you know you need to get out.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I've had jobs that I didn't like and the pay wasn't great but if it did pay well then I'd keep it. I grew up hardly having money and currently struggling getting it. So in my case I'd be happy with a high paying job becuase for those that don't have money then thats all they really need, atleast something to start off with.

FELIPE NO

Unfortunately for me I want a job that ifs full of happiness. Why unfortunately? Well, I love being able to say: "Oh I wanted to be a concert pianist" and if I worked hard enough (much harder that is) I really could become one. However, I'm going into accounting since in real life, the naturally talented and insanely devoted are the most likely to become performance worthy. I don't like accounting and it only started as a whim in Grade 11 when the course was bird in itself, but everyone's saying about how it's one of the highest paying professions. It was rather depressing getting my income tax done last week, thinking that would probably be what I'd do for the rest of my life.
So I would love a job that provides mega-happiness over high pay, but I don't see how going into Commerce helps with that. My backup plan would be that of a Math Teacher, which I'm not particularly ecstatic about, but it would definitely be better than sitting around a desk, avoiding trying to surf the net every single day.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I'd prefer to be satisfied with my career. Performing the same job after many years may become routine, but if I wouldn't necessarily grow tired of helping patients and using the skills I learned in school.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Summonmaster

However, I'm going into accounting since in real life, the naturally talented and insanely devoted are the most likely to become performance worthy. I don't like accounting and it only started as a whim in Grade 11 when the course was bird in itself, but everyone's saying about how it's one of the highest paying professions. It was rather depressing getting my income tax done last week, thinking that would probably be what I'd do for the rest of my life.

Accounting isn't that bad. Although if filing your income taxes made you depressed that's debatable. Look on the bright side. If you go to work for one of the top five accounting firms, you could relocate yourself just about anywhere in the world. Plus, you'll absolutely love the side benefits of your job of being encouraged to shred financial documents. Like the firm of Arthur Anderson of Enron fame!

The key is to remain positive. And answer as little of the SEC (or it's international equivalents) questions as you possibly can. Remember, you were ordered to do that. It wasn't your fault.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'd really love to get a job that would also provide me with a lot of money, but there's not much that interests me, other than hobbies that cost me money, including gaming and music. Either way, I'm fairly adaptable, as I can easily do things that don't interest me, provided that they aren't boring, if that even makes sense. I find that I eventually come to a stage where it's me against *insert unintersting thing here.* For example, I recently took a CAD class for a graduation requirement. At first, I wasn't too thrilled at all, as I didn't really like anything like that anyways. Within a month, I found myself looking forward to each new challenge, even though I still didn't like CAD or engineering any more than before.

Anything accounting-related is a big no-no, however. Wages won't persuade me here.

If I were to choose between two jobs that had similar wages, I'd probably go for the one that would be most enjoyable, even if I would get paid a little less. Sure, it'll add up over time, but I'm just playing mental tricks on myself here.

Anyways, I'd choose money over a fun job, with a few exceptions. I mean, with the money, I can afford to pursue my hobbies and maybe even get a nice clarinet. (Ahoy there, Tosca, even though I probably shouldn't be going anywhere near you and your uberness.)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

i love how a lot of people feel the need to make the two mutually exclusive. it's just a cheap shot that people use to put others who are superior (at least in earnings) to themselves down.

"oh look, there's that billionaire! i wish i had all that money"
"nah, you don't really, i bet deep down inside he's really unhappy"
"yeah, you're right. i'd much rather stick to my great job stacking shelves in shittymart"
"wanna go out tonight?"
"sorry, can't. i'm working the nightshift. gotta save up so i can afford those new curtains"

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Gotta go with happiness at a job for me. After I graduate with my bachelor's degree I'm going to have to spend 4-6 years working on a PhD followed by a bit of time as a postdoc. Hoping to get a job as a professor shortly after that, though I could probably get equivalent pay (as well as shorter hours during a working day) working for a company such as Intel or Lockheed right after I finish my undergrad.

Also, sass, if you work at a smaller company you're more likely to get to do what you want to work on than at a larger company. Small companies are generally very focused in a specific market, and if you're working at a company whose interests overlap with your own then you're pretty set. At a large company they have loads of projects going on, only one or two of which you'll probably get to be a part of at any given time.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

Also, sass, if you work at a smaller company you're more likely to get to do what you want to work on than at a larger company. Small companies are generally very focused in a specific market, and if you're working at a company whose interests overlap with your own then you're pretty set. At a large company they have loads of projects going on, only one or two of which you'll probably get to be a part of at any given time.

Agree. But do the benefits and pay always match the happiness level?

You know what I am saying? I mean, chances are, you'll be happier. But it being a smaller company, you'll probably have to do without the enormous pay and the excellent benefits that a place like LANL or something could offer, you know?

Maybe you could enlighten me a little. I never really talk to these guys about if they're happy or not. ^_^

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Sometimes small companies can actually pay pretty decently. They can only hire a few people, so they usually want to get the best talent they can get, and sometimes they're willing to offer the bit of extra money in order to get the talent. Small companies also tend to treat employees pretty well since it's much harder on them if an employee were to leave for another place than if Boeing were to lose one of their lower lab workers.

From what I've heard from my professors that worked at LANL (two or three at that one in particular) it's not a bad job by any means, but the lack of strong motivation can get frustrating at times. National labs have pretty constant funding, so they don't have nearly the problem that researchers in companies and universities do of having to consistently come up with results.

FELIPE NO

Meh. I'm going for both the money and the happiness. I've secured one job that's really stable and will pay very well, and I know I'll be happy with what I'm doing. Not only that, I'd be happy with my situation outside of work too (i.e. location and stuff). Another job that's in the works would leave me doing cooler engineering work (which I would be even happier with) and pay me more (which is like, double the happiness). So all in all, I just have to find something I want to do, because I'll be making a lot of money anyway.

Then there's the whole technology start-up venture I'll be doing on the side, and since I'm doing it with friends, it's gonna be pretty fun at least. And if we do all our homework, the gains will be enormous.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I'd prefer - Enjoying your work, despite whatever pay you make. But on the other hand I always had enough money so I wouldn't know any better, anyhow.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I seriously doubt if I could work, for a long period of time, doing something that I dislike. I don't honestly care about money that much, and I would much prefer doing something I love, just for the love of it, not for the money.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by NovaX

I seriously doubt if I could work, for a long period of time, doing something that I dislike. I don't honestly care about money that much, and I would much prefer doing something I love, just for the love of it, not for the money.

On the other hand money is important if you do not have enough of it.:lolsign:

How ya doing, buddy?

Of course, I would want both money and happiness, but overall, happiness is more important to me. I don't want to spend most of my life doing something I hate just for money. Earning more money would allow me to buy better things, but I'll still feel miserable going back to a nice home after a horrible day at work. And while at home, I'll be dreading the next day of work ahead of me.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

My family always tells me. Suffer first, enjoy later.

So, money money money. It's all about the money, although I try to get happiness at the same time.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Thanatos

My family always tells me. Suffer first, enjoy later.

So, money money money. It's all about the money, although I try to get happiness at the same time.

Suffering first? You mean actually having to put in a good, hard day's work? Jesus. Is this how people really perceive work these days?

I don't know about you guys - maybe I am completely insane (?) - but I have rarely disliked any of my work. Every job has its downsides, but seriously, so long as I am being productive once and a while and I am carrying some kind of responsibility on my shoulders, I am happy.

I know I would never want to work a job where I felt like I was contributing absolutely nothing to a company. THATS the absolute worst, if you ask me. Or, when I can't observe my own work contributing to a greater cause. If it seems pointless, it usually is.

I have to admit, though. I kind of miss working with the public. I don't get enough of that as it is, and I always thought I was pretty good at solving peoples' problems. These days, I never get a chance to do this.

So I guess so long as I am both productive and I can see the fruits of my labor adding up to something, I am happy at a job. I can't see how "work" is automatically "suffering."

People should take a pride in what they do.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

The surest way to grow to hate anything you enjoy is to make it your job. On the surface, it seems like money and happiness aren't mutually exclusive, but work is work no matter if it's something you like doing. The beauty of hobbies is that you can pick them up or leave off whenever you like. Work must be done whether you're in the mood or not, and over time this will lead you to start resenting even the most enjoyable of jobs.

It's entirely possible to tolerate your job, and not suffer significant stress from it, but I've never known anybody who said they liked their job and wasn't lying. Given the choice between work and play, nobody ever really chooses work. Me, I say take the money. It's important to find a job that won't wear you into the ground, but since there's no way you can truly be happy working, best to make enough money to make yourself happy later.

FELIPE NO

Well, there's a difference between your countries' culture and the culture in mine. People here look at financial and career performance over happiness, and parents often want their children to be some 'well-paid' professionals.

It boils down to people's perception and 'status', and as a child, I'm quite forced to put up with such pressure.

True, I agree that people should take pride in their work, but over here, the parents ultimately decide what field of studies their children take, and as such the child is indirectly 'forced' to do whatever their parents choose for them, as such, these people enter into a work not because they like it, it's because they were forced to.

Albeit I managed to negotiate with my parents to give me some leeway and let me choose my own course, still I know they will expect me to get a career that gives a good impression to others.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

With the "suffer first" notion, it could've also referred to putting up with the banes of school/college/etc (education, getting the grades, working hard in school... "suffering"). And then ideally after all this "suffering," you are rewarded with the job/career you love.

Except he was indeed talking about suffering through the job. I see where you're coming from with that. I know parents who push their kids to be doctors, make them do pre-med in college (or engineering nowadays). Eventually the kid finally figure what it is he or she really wants to do, a conflict ensues, and finally the parents let the kid do as he pleases. Later, both are happy with whatever the kid has done, as long as he didn't drop out or something.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

As long as I am enjoying my work, I am willing to continue moving up the ladder. Once I hit that point of tedius > enjoyment, I will stop or move on to new experiences. Why work when you don't enjoy it? If your doing that, what reason is there to go to work?

There's nowhere I can't reach.