[Wii] Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tournament Discussion

Originally Posted by Chaotic

Keeps popping out of nowhere whenever I'm on the top tier. I only had to play on it once to determine how much I hate this stage.

And my personal ban list for the tournament:

Rumble Falls
Mario Bros.
Flat Zone 2
Hyrule Temple
Big Blue
New Pork City
75m

Just seven stages out of the 41. Agree to ban these? Disagree? Argue with me, dammit.

It's hard to argue against that .
I'm pretty much in complete agreement with those stage being banned. Mostly because I hate scrolling stages and humongous stages like New Pork City. I'm impartial to Flat Zone 2 and 75m though. Mostly because they're unique by design. I can also see why many players would hate playing on it too. So either way, I'm cool with it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Kairyu

It's hard to argue against that .
I'm pretty much in complete agreement with those stage being banned. Mostly because I hate scrolling stages and humongous stages like New Pork City. I'm impartial to Flat Zone 2 and 75m though. Mostly because they're unique by design. I can also see why many players would hate playing on it too. So either way, I'm cool with it.

You might want to consider Rainbow Cruise from Melee as well. Last time I checked, it was a scrolling stage as well.

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If people feel that scrolling stages should be banned, then Mushroomy Kingdom and Rainbow Cruise are out of contention also. I don't mind Mushroomy Kingdom as much, since I do like the stage, but Rainbow Cruise and the disappearing platforms are hard as hell to deal with.

Both are counterpick stages, as was Rainbow Cruise in Melee.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I don't mind Mushroomy Kingdom because you keep moving forward, which isn't that much of a pain. Going up a stage is a different story, though. It puts the heavier and slower characters (Bowser for example) to really work at keeping up without dying. Mushroomy Kingdom goes at the right pace, so that makes up for it.

How ya doing, buddy?

Yeah, I'm all for banning Rainbow Cruise if everyone agrees to it. I particularly like Mushroomy Kingdom, so I'm all for that being in our tournament. There's a nice handful of heavy characters I like using. Rainbow Cruise doesn't help their cause.

Rainbow Cruise: Yes? No?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'd say take the ban off from temple. In melee that was my favourite stage. I think the big stages are fun in their own way. It lets you plan things out and gives you a safe spot to 'hide' in hoping for an HP item to drop :P I s'pose I'm okay with the other bans though..

However, I think the randomness of the stages adds to the fun tremendously. Being KO'd at 12% sucks yeah, but it adds to the fun of the game. It's supposed to be random. If you wana play for just skill, all items off, all stages cept final destination allowed and there you go. Smash is about the levels, and the items, and the big chaotic mess it all makes. (My two cents)

((Also means I'm in this too when it gets started))

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Turbo

If you wana play for just skill, all items off, all stages cept final destination allowed and there you go. Smash is about the levels, and the items, and the big chaotic mess it all makes.

I guess you meant "all stages cept final destination banned".

Anyway, yeah, I think the whole concept of banning is silly. Every tournament you hear about out there is the usual "no items" blather. On one hand it may lend to a more skilled and precise environment, but on the other it just seems kind of... boring. Smash is kind of unique in that it uses items and non-traditional stages, but it's the only game I know of where people insist on removing content.

Once again suggesting that things of this nature can simply be hashed out between the two competing parties before the match. Both fine with any stage? Then any stage goes. Both feel like a certain stage sucks? Then they can agree on which ones to not use. Just putting a ban on certain stuff seems kind of restrictive.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Second the unban for Temple :(

As for Rainbow Cruise, I'd say ban. It's a great stage, but sometimes you can't keep up with the scrolling.

I wish Mushroomy Kingdom didn't take place in a yucky desert though. I don't mind having that in the tournament.

I think using no items does make for a fairer fight. My sister and I played Melee with no items for years, but if people want items for the tournament, I'm fine with it. Think the bomb should be banned though.

How ya doing, buddy?

I'm in. Don't care what the rules are, but I will throw my "no items" vote in. I've always played that way and i think it makes things more fair that way.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sakabadger

I guess you meant "all stages cept final destination banned".

Anyway, yeah, I think the whole concept of banning is silly. Every tournament you hear about out there is the usual "no items" blather. On one hand it may lend to a more skilled and precise environment, but on the other it just seems kind of... boring. Smash is kind of unique in that it uses items and non-traditional stages, but it's the only game I know of where people insist on removing content.

Once again suggesting that things of this nature can simply be hashed out between the two competing parties before the match. Both fine with any stage? Then any stage goes. Both feel like a certain stage sucks? Then they can agree on which ones to not use. Just putting a ban on certain stuff seems kind of restrictive.

I understand about how banning does feel a bit restrictive on gameplay, but along with it being fun, I at least want the battles to be fair in a sense that it's gonna take 10 minutes to KO one life out of you.

My argument on keeping Temple banned is that slower characters will have some sort of disadvantage with chasing down your opponent. Since we're running this with 4 stock, 8 minutes, I don't want someone getting a win without earning it. I just don't want them camping out the whole time and letting them get their win by just standing there. Pretty much why I'm against using this stage.

Earn your wins, dammit.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I am honestly amused at how much content one must strip away from a game to make it "fair" for all users.

You're right though, how dare people use a stage's layout to their advantage! How dare you try to be strategic about your character's placements?

This annoys me in first person shooters as well. All stages should be perfect circles so there are no corners to hide in and everyone's on a perfectly level playing field with the best guns. Fuck, y'know, coming up with counters.

None of you guys are good enough to be tourney level players, so it's not like you'll all be untouchable if you use a stage layout to your advantage. It's not like Brawl wasn't designed from the standpoint of leveling the playing field for JUST THIS PURPOSE and all that, I forgot.

What do I know though? I'm not participating in this. Kinda glad I don't have the time with school, now, though.

Good lord why am I starting this argument. It's not like this party game is a true fighter. I just hope that whatever you guys end up deciding on is fun for everyone involved and doesn't end up with anyone annoyed or exclusded or not signing up or anything. I am kinda surprised that we're no better than those we've hated on for so long though. Le sigh.

I am, at least, appreciative of the discussion going on instead of having one person decide all the rules and some people being sadface with it. Bravo for that, Chaotic.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Turbo

I'd say take the ban off from temple. In melee that was my favourite stage. I think the big stages are fun in their own way. It lets you plan things out and gives you a safe spot to 'hide' in hoping for an HP item to drop

This is one of the reasons I think it should be banned.

The last thing we'd need is two people both at 150% sitting and waiting for ages.

Then again that is what the time limit is for

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Chaotic

I understand about how banning does feel a bit restrictive on gameplay, but along with it being fun, I at least want the battles to be fair in a sense that it's gonna take 10 minutes to KO one life out of you.

My argument on keeping Temple banned is that slower characters will have some sort of disadvantage with chasing down your opponent. Since we're running this with 4 stock, 8 minutes, I don't want someone getting a win without earning it. I just don't want them camping out the whole time and letting them get their win by just standing there. Pretty much why I'm against using this stage.

Earn your wins, dammit.

I might just be playing Devil's Advocate here, but a win is a win pretty much (unless illegal hax is going on (in which case I don't believe there's anything to worry about here)). If they KO someone and then hightail it for the rest of the match... well, that's their prerogative isn't it?

If both sides agree that they don't want to deal with that, then they can hash it out beforehand. Otherwise... let it be! There's a time and stock limit anyway.

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I agree...Heres what I'm thinking...if we want to record everything

Best out of 3
3 stock - 3 minute matches
Random Stage
All Items on (Low setting)

If no recording

4 stock 8 minute match.
Random Stages
All Items on (Low)


Also since we're GFF and not a group of tourney hunters, why not just leave all the stages on...It'll let us use our strategies a bit more and if people want to camp, then thats their problem.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Colonel Spreadsheet

I am honestly amused at how much content one must strip away from a game to make it "fair" for all users.

You're right though, how dare people use a stage's layout to their advantage! How dare you try to be strategic about your character's placements?

This annoys me in first person shooters as well. All stages should be perfect circles so there are no corners to hide in and everyone's on a perfectly level playing field with the best guns. Fuck, y'know, coming up with counters.

None of you guys are good enough to be tourney level players, so it's not like you'll all be untouchable if you use a stage layout to your advantage. It's not like Brawl wasn't designed from the standpoint of leveling the playing field for JUST THIS PURPOSE and all that, I forgot.

What do I know though? I'm not participating in this. Kinda glad I don't have the time with school, now, though.

Good lord why am I starting this argument. It's not like this party game is a true fighter. I just hope that whatever you guys end up deciding on is fun for everyone involved and doesn't end up with anyone annoyed or exclusded or not signing up or anything. I am kinda surprised that we're no better than those we've hated on for so long though. Le sigh.

I am, at least, appreciative of the discussion going on instead of having one person decide all the rules and some people being sadface with it. Bravo for that, Chaotic.

I've had worse situations. One time I actually had to fight for MLG Tournament Standard Rules to be the standard.

A friend and I were running a tournament a couple months ago at the high school I graduated from. I drop by for one of the clubs to help out since it just started last year, and I'm the only graduate with enough free time to go back. Anyway, the idea of a Melee tournament was brought into play since the club made it's staple with video game tournaments. I was talking to my friend whom I was planning this with and he argued with me that we would only be doing two stock matches, Final Destination only.

I honestly wanted to slap him for it, because that falls even below the standards of Casual Smashers. Even the Beginning Smashers play with more restriction that that. I did, however, understand where he was coming from on this, since:

1. We were doing this during after school hours (which range from 2:30 to 4:00)
2. We only had two days to pull this off.

I had to fight him for using JUST neutral stages and more than two stock. Eventually we got to using Neutral Stages (Final Destination, Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium, Fountain of Dreams, and Dreamland [N64], we removed Yoshi's Story... No one really liked that stage) and 3 stock, 3 minutes.

I was dissatisfied with the tournament (since everyone in the tournament were stupid dipshits. For Christ's sake, someone used Mewtwo. o_o), but we messed up on the first day, so we had to rush EVERYTHING in the second day.

But I've dealt with worse situations. I was on the same end as you guys are now with trying to debate with which stages should be put in a tournament, so I'm completely understanding of you guys defending certain stages. I still don't feel that Temple should be used, but if the majority rules in it's use, then so be it. I've said my peace and feel free to disagree.

But we're doing this March Smashness tournament so we can determine clan leaders so we could possibly start this league up next month. Do we really want a clan leader who camped his way to a victory position? But if we do want to record EVERY match for this tournament, I suppose I'll be alright with the 3 stock, 3 minutes thing. What format are the videos saved in anyway? But if we do you use this, then Temple is definitely banned since it will probably take you two minutes to just knock one stock off of someone.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, the way I plan on running the Round Robin..the person would have to do a HELL of a lot of camping.

http://www.gamingforce.org/forums/mu...tml#post584882

I made (^) This thread so we can at least get whos participating in

Jam it back in, in the dark.

This may sound kinda too complicated and silly...might ruin the tournament aspect but I've always want try this. Back when melee came out I developed a sort of Smash Bros "Risk" which ended up not working because using the handicap levels for enemy values in each stage was way too unfair.

Buuuuuut since we're having clans(we are still making them right?) and we're discussing stages...what if each clan owns rights to a particular set of stages. If another clan wants a stage they dont have they can challenge the owner by fighting on it. Maybe eventually "capturing" all the stages determines which clan wins.
Kinda destroys the tourny ladder...but...just an idea.
If you really wanted to go crazy you could make a map so only bordering stages can be attacked. This way there can be a little more interaction between clan mates, deciding which stages to attack, who to defend. Mmm strategy.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by immp

This may sound kinda too complicated and silly...might ruin the tournament aspect but I've always want try this. Back when melee came out I developed a sort of Smash Bros "Risk" which ended up not working because using the handicap levels for enemy values in each stage was way too unfair.

Buuuuuut since we're having clans(we are still making them right?) and we're discussing stages...what if each clan owns rights to a particular set of stages. If another clan wants a stage they dont have they can challenge the owner by fighting on it. Maybe eventually "capturing" all the stages determines which clan wins.
Kinda destroys the tourny ladder...but...just an idea.
If you really wanted to go crazy you could make a map so only bordering stages can be attacked. This way there can be a little more interaction between clan mates, deciding which stages to attack, who to defend. Mmm strategy.

I actually think with more refinement it could work.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Again, offering an outside perspective here, but fuck, immp, you rule. That is an AWESOME idea, and while a good deal of work, it could potentially be far more interesting.

(This is why I <3 you guys. Give it a little time and you guys shit out Gold. AWESOME.)

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

It's interesting, but it could be a nice side thingy to the tournament and league matches.

I guess we could do this during the off-season of the Brawl League. I like the idea of it though.

I was speaking idiomatically.

immp for the win on that idea.

I missed the last few days... Can someone fill me in on this whole "clans" thing? Feel free to do it by PM so as not to spam the thread. Thanks

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Actually, it'd probably be best if someone made a good summarizing post, as I've been trying to follow it and I was completely wrong about what was going down too.

FELIPE NO

I'll summarize it all up in a minute: I'll edit this post when I'm ready and add it to the first post also.

Here we go:

Originally Posted by Super Smash Bros. Brawl Clans

(I'm just using a random number here, work with me)

30 members split up into 6 clans consisting of five members.

Each week, all six clans will face off one other opposing clan.

Each member will randomly be assigned another member to fight off against in a best of three match up. Whoever wins, earns a point towards their team total this week. Whoever earns the most points after the five match-ups are done, earns one on the win column.

The cycle will repeat until each clan has face off against each other once. The amount of points you earn will be crucial also. Should the top clans both be 5-1, the amount of points you earned will determine your seeding for the Post Season.

The Post Season tournament will also be done in the same way, but in a single elimination tournament format. Clans will face off the same way as they did in the normal season, but should you lose there, you're knocked out of the Playoffs and the next team advances. This continues until we can crown a winner.

Match-ups for the playoffs will be done like so: 1v6, 2v5 ,3v4.

So fight hard, and make sure every fight counts.

Hopefully after sign-ups, we can make an even amount of clans with odd members so this works out perfectly.

Slash, write up something for the round-robin tournament, I'm not exactly sure how you're doing this, so I trust you that we can make this work.

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Sorry if this was mentioned and I missed it, but clarify something for me please:

what determines the makeup of these clans? Is it left up to ourselves to get organized (aka team with whoever you want), or is someone (Chaotic or Slash evidently) going to be splitting people up?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Basically the way I want to run the round robin is by first getting everyone to sign up for the tournament.

I'll refine this more tomorrow or something

Because people will probably want to camp or use certain strategies they can, I want to basically assign a point value

I.E. if its a 3 stock 3 minute match it'll work for each person
so for example
0 K.O.'s = 0 points
1 K.O.'s = 1 point
2 K.O.'s = 2 points
3 K.O.'s (Victory) = 5 points.

This way its not a "you lose you get nothing" sort of thing. This way someone can still possibly win even if they got screwed because of stage hazards.

But I also want it so that everyone can face one another. With the top X people (X being determined after we find out how many people enter the tournament)

But do we want to be able to record the matches as well? I wouldn't mind being able to watch all the matches after they happen

There's nowhere I can't reach.