Blu-ray and HD DVD Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

Digital Distribution is a perfect example of demographics at work. Some of the movie-going population will embrace it for the ease-of-use and simplifying what was (before for them) a more complicated and physically demanding exercise in squiring movies.

Yes, most people here (Including myself) will not digitally download new movies in lieu of getting them on a physical medium...

Another example is this: The Wii was the number one Christmas Item and is selling like hotcakes over here. The 360 is performing very well too, but not with most people who bought the Wii, aka first time gamers. While there is an overlap (Such as myself), both machines are marketing towards different demographics and the results are there already.

So, if a person doesn't know or care about the difference between 480p and 1080i and they just want the movie, then digital downloading will seem like this to them "Hey, I used to have to go to the store to rent a DVD, but now I can simply download it and start watching it!". The process will be slower due to the MPAA's sluggish attitude towards new technology like this, but since places like Netflix have already begun the mainstream dissolution between the old method of going to Blockbuster or Hollywood Video and paying the couple of dollars and driving back, and the new method of just waiting for the movie to start playing, this new disribution method WILL have people who will think its the best thing since sliced bread, and others who would sooner disembowel themselves on a pike before giving up their hard-coded movies. This is of course, if they market it correctly.

tl;dr: The digital download market is there and will be successful to a degree.

Microsoft seems to be pushing for this. Although I don't see it being too successful till we see more area's of the world have a high rate transfer. The US isn't ready for this. There may be a minority for it but as a whole, I just don't see it catching on so quick. DVD's will still continue to be seller of movies while Blu Ray plays catch up with it. By 2009, we'll see a large HD base out throughout the world. By then, we'll see if Blu Ray really takes off. DD will probaby much more known during that time as well. It'll probably come down to personal preferences in the end. Download copy vs Software copy. Personally, I rather have the library in case and hand, not as a file stored onto a hard drive.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I can understand the average person becoming comfortable with rentals and individual song purchases, but full HD movie downloads for purchase would come at a significantly higher price. Your average person can throw a buck or two away here and there, but I doubt they'll throw away twenty or thirty bucks when the time comes to choose between buying a movie/tv series on a physical disc that they can keep, collect, organize, take to their friend's/family's house, in favor of DRM-filled expensive digital files with heavy restrictions and the risk of hardware failure or other issues essentially taking away their property.

Perhaps the popularity of iPods and digital downloads of music may suggest this isn't true, but I simply cannot see the same thing happen to the movie industry. Problem with music is people just don't care as much as they used to, and not very many people really want to be forced to pay $13 for 12 songs when they only really want 5 songs on the disc. This type of nonsense doesn't happen with movies, and it's just easier and more logical to maintain a library of movies than music CDs.

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Originally Posted by Matt

I knew Kingdom of Heaven was out on HD-DVD, but they brought it over to Blu-Ray too??
That's awesome.

I'm definitely going to get a BD player as soon as I upgrade my TV to an HD. I'm just waiting on the sub-40" wide screen TVs to go down in price now.

Are you confusing Kingdom of Heaven with The Kingdom? Kingdom of Heaven is a Fox title, and is Blu-ray exclusive.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Tafer

Hmm... this may be a good place to make a small question...

Bookshelf vs Floorstanding speakers?

The decision between bookshelves and floorstanders can actually be complex. My recommendation is to stay away from floorstanders if you have a small room that isn't treated. Floorstanders are typically more bassy and overpowering...since low bass sounds best when it has room to travel, playing them in a small room may introduce nodes and a boomy sound, which I find intolerable. However, you could probably get away with it as long as you don't use a crossover lower than 80 Hz...at 60 Hz, you will most likely run into problems, since the seating position in small rooms is very close to the back wall...where bad bass is likely to be heard.

On the other hand, a surround set-up with 5-7 identical floorstanders is commonly seen as ideal. In such a design, you wouldn't have to crossover any of the bass from the main channels and sum everything up to the subwoofer...assuming that the speakers have a low and accurately spec'd F3. This means that the bass will be played from where it was originally intended when the sound was mixed. Theoretically, you'd get a fuller and more lively sound due to the increased presence of stereo bass (summed up bass sent to a subwoofer is mono). Your sub would only handle the LFE signal, as it was originally intended to do, and you wouldn't have to worry about any holes since there would be no crossover engaged.

...I think I'm making things too complicated, so here's a list:

Bookshelves:

+ Arguably better imaging.
+ Small size makes it easier to align tweeter at ear level.
- Bass response is typically limited.
- Lower power handling.

Floorstanders:

+ Low bass response.
+ Most designs are intricate and feature multiple drivers, such as seperate mid-range for cleaner dialogue.
+ High power handling, so they can easily hit reference levels.
- Placement more difficult due to size and bass capability, especially with ported designs.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Heh... I was kinda lost.

But I think I get your point, I was thinking in going bookshelves anyways: I'm having some serious problems allocating my current small and cheap system, and the walls and windows have a nasty time when I put the volume at "bad neighbor" levels (= a room not made for this stuff).

And it's time for another question!
- Should I get the same speakers for everything? (7.1 setup)
Besides the center and subwoofer, Im not sure what to get for the surrounds. I was tempted to get something like these ones. (But cheaper )
And for the frontal and back the same stuff.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Tube

I can understand the average person becoming comfortable with rentals and individual song purchases, but full HD movie downloads for purchase would come at a significantly higher price.

True, but like with DVDs, I highly doubt downloaded movies will cost the same as their Blu-Ray counterparts. A movie on iTunes is what, $9.99? Sometimes $14.99? That's vastly cheaper than the new release DVDs. I anticipate a similar price point for HD movie downloads. What you gain in affordability and simplicity you will ultimately lose in quality. Maybe not entirely for video (H264 is pretty incredible), but audio I'm sure will take a hit with compression.

Again, people like us may see/hear the difference, but John Q. Factory Worker won't.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by sprouticus

True, but like with DVDs, I highly doubt downloaded movies will cost the same as their Blu-Ray counterparts. A movie on iTunes is what, $9.99? Sometimes $14.99? That's vastly cheaper than the new release DVDs.

Not really. Lower than the suggested MSRP, sure, but the actual DVD is usually on sale for around that price the first week. And those are physical copies, with extras and such.

And downloaded movies will likely never hit the major low that DVD's will in mega-cheap bargain bin sales that BB and CC like to do. Download a movie for $5 or less? It'll be a cold day in hell before a studio lets you do that.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Tafer

Heh... I was kinda lost.

But I think I get your point, I was thinking in going bookshelves anyways: I'm having some serious problems allocating my current small and cheap system, and the walls and windows have a nasty time when I put the volume at "bad neighbor" levels (= a room not made for this stuff).

And it's time for another question!
- Should I get the same speakers for everything? (7.1 setup)
Besides the center and subwoofer, Im not sure what to get for the surrounds. I was tempted to get something like these ones. (But cheaper )
And for the frontal and back the same stuff.

Absolutely. Identical speakers for all channels are ideal. You could try getting seven M3 v2 bookshelves. I wouldn't even bother with a typical center channel unless you must have a horizontal design due to placement issues. Even if the center channel is part of the same speaker line from the same company, it won't sound the same as the others, because the horizontal design is a compromise and changes the sound dispersion significantly.

Regarding surrounds, I prefer monopole (direct-firing), rather than dipole (dual out-of-phase output) or bipole (dual output) configuration. Dipole and bipole surrounds can create the sense of a more immersive surround field and a less localizable sound, but I can't think of any sound mixers who actually use them while mixing.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Megalith

Absolutely. Identical speakers for all channels are ideal. You could try getting seven M3 v2 bookshelves. I wouldn't even bother with a typical center channel unless you must have a horizontal design due to placement issues. Even if the center channel is part of the same speaker line from the same company, it won't sound the same as the others, because the horizontal design is a compromise and changes the sound dispersion significantly.

Regarding surrounds, I prefer monopole (direct-firing), rather than dipole (dual out-of-phase output) or bipole (dual output) configuration. Dipole and bipole surrounds can create the sense of a more immersive surround field and a less localizable sound, but I can't think of any sound mixers who actually use them while mixing.

Woah, that's good to know... and the whole set of M3 v2 is under $1000!!!. (Well, 3 pairs... the additional guy doesn't push the price that much).

And just noticed that Axion has an online store: this made my day.

Man, I forgot about the subwoofer... and since I'm going Axiom, it would be a good idea to go that way too... but this pushes the price another $560... and the the cable and connectors... another $300. Crap once again on the $2000 mark... my day ended here.

Heh... j/k, besides I'm planning to do this upgrade in the future, maybe at this year's end or the next year. 1.5-2 years would be more than enough to get the money and make a good plan to evade the retarded super high import duties.

Thanks for the help dude!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

you should all take a look at this article. kind of puts a new light on the High-def format wars, and a newfound source of anger at it all:

DRM and the tech industry's "girlie men"

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I did not expect a price drop to $150, but I guess it's the format's swan song.

Hell, I'd get one and never take it out of the box.

How ya doing, buddy?

Wow. HD-DVD is dead.

Wal-Mart to Go Blu-ray Exclusive | High-Def Digest

Report: Toshiba to Drop HD DVD | High-Def Digest

To top it off, the year's biggest HD releases, such as Indiana Jones, Dark Knight, and X-Files 2, will all be Blu-ray exclusive. I guess it is over. Now I have to sound like a retarded jap whenever I ask if a movie is available.

Just give me my overpriced AVP: Requiem.

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Gooood, the sooner the better.

Btw dude, found a Polk Audio retailer on the country... the guys are giving me the real price + taxes (Completely acceptable).

The problem is... Axiom is shipping internationally and the price is pretty much the same. (And everyone loves Axiom)

What should I choose!?

I was speaking idiomatically.

What are the specific models?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Oh...

Bookshelf Speakers: Millennia M3 v2 - Axiom Audio
vs
RTi A1 Product Page : High-performance Bookshelf Loudspeaker : Polk Audio

And there is a good chance that I'll get floorstanding for the fronts (I can solve the space problem):

Floorstanding Speakers : Millennia M60 v2 - Axiom Audio
vs
RTi A7 Product Page : High-performance Freestanding Loudspeaker : Polk Audio

From what I have been reading Polk's require 130+W/channel Amps to work as intended, my current 90W/Channel are certainly not close but and I'm not willing to upgrade something that works just fine... at least during this year.

Internet loves axiom, looks like they offer the best speaker for the money.. and their service people is amazing. (I have been talking with them about the shipping and stuff)

Now, I would go Axiom... but if something wrong happens, I'll have to pay the shipping back (Not cool), with the Polk's I just don't have that problem.

Naturally, I'm seriously thinking in taking this stuff to AVS, but dude... that place is kinda intimidating. (heh, at least for me)

FELIPE NO

Is it possible for you to audition the Polks? Nearly all speaker reviews are oddly positive, and for every good thing someone says about a speaker, there is always a bad thing that is said right alongside it. The bottom line is that you can only trust what you hear. But buying blind is fine if you can't audition...both my Infinitys and Mackies were bought blind.

I just don't buy any of this hype from internet dealers. I'm sure that the products are good, but most of the reviews are probably biased, as many of the customers are the type that purchase on faith, since they lack the privilege of going around different dealers and surveying multiple brands...thus, there isn't really a wide spectrum for them to dabble into when they make their judgements.

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Originally Posted by Megalith

Report: Toshiba to Drop HD DVD | High-Def Digest

Here's another source if anyone was doubting this one.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Megalith

Is it possible for you to audition the Polks? Nearly all speaker reviews are oddly positive, and for every good thing someone says about a speaker, there is always a bad thing that is said right alongside it. The bottom line is that you can only trust what you hear. But buying blind is fine if you can't audition...both my Infinitys and Mackies were bought blind.

I just don't buy any of this hype from internet dealers. I'm sure that the products are good, but most of the reviews are probably biased, as many of the customers are the type that purchase on faith, since they lack the privilege of going around different dealers and surveying multiple brands...thus, there isn't really a wide spectrum for them to dabble into when they make their judgements.

Too much true in those words.

Oh, and the reviews (that I'm considering) for the Axiom are based on stuff outside their site... after the TV I learned that people is extremely biased to the stuff they just bought. Granted speakers are been much more difficult than the TV. (Way too many options and in general, people base their entire perception on plain opinions)

For the auditing, I can go and hear the Polk's, sadly I have no idea what I am "looking" for. If I had to compare those with my current set, I would expect something impressive but that's all (lol, if those speakers can't humiliate my current $300 configuration, I'll get pissed and spit the face of everything related to expensive audio stuff).

Any ideas for what should I "look"?

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Originally Posted by Megalith

Wow. HD-DVD is dead.

I'm really glad that one of the formats are dead, more formats means more players means more space taken up on my entertainment center, not to mention more money to spend on multiple players. Personally I was rooting for the Blu-Ray cuz I am eventually getting a PS3, so not only will that be my Blu ray player, but I won't have to buy a HD-DVD player

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It depends which party you belong to. There are people who enjoy neutral sound, and then there are people who enjoy colored sound.

If you belong to the first group, you can bring an accurate pair of headphones to gauge the neutraility of the speaker's output. If you belong to the second, then you will just have to sit down and listen to determine what kind of sound you like.

Objectivity can be applied to the concept of neutral sound, but the quality of colored sound is always subjective. Since the majority of people are usually more concerned about "quality" rather than neutrality, I refuse to tell people what sounds "good," since ultimately, I can't. One man's emphasis on treble is another man's recipe for harshness, etc. Just sit down, listen to a few of your CDs, and stick with whatever sounds best to you.

EDIT: On the topic of CDs, I would bring a couple of movie scores or symphonies which feature a wide dynamic range. In my opinion, commercial pop/rock CDs are practically worthless to gauge performance. They are specifically mixed to sound good on even the most lowly equipment, since almost all dynamic range is compressed...meaning that you won't be able to gauge a speaker's ability to transition from low to high passages, or it's ability in maintaining a low noise floor (though most of the latter is influenced by amp/connections). I've found that scores like Episode III have sounded like complete trash on inadequate equipment, so it might be a good idea to pick a couple of scores that revolve around raw orchestrations, while ignoring more of the electronic-stuff, like Crimson Tide (which sounds oddly smooth and pleasant on almost all equipment).

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Hmm... I think I read something about it: colored sound works specially fine for those who intend to use their to play mostly certain music genres and stuff. However the coloration may become quite nasty on other sources. (Heh, don't kill me that's what I understood)

In my case, I listen pretty much anything that catch my fancy... and since this set is going for games, music and movies of several genres... I think it is safe to go with something neutral.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Toshiba Officially Drops HD DVD | High-Def Digest
Breaking: Universal Studios Goes Blu | High-Def Digest

Wonder if Universal will change their menu for the BD version, since they've become practically synonomous with HD-DVD. I'd like to say that I'm very excited to see the BD versions of stuff like Bourne Ultimatum, but they'll probably be identical to the HD-DVD.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I would guess this thread can be closed/renamed since HD-DVD is finally dead?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Megalith

Toshiba Officially Drops HD DVD | High-Def Digest
Breaking: Universal Studios Goes Blu | High-Def Digest

Wonder if Universal will change their menu for the BD version, since they've become practically synonomous with HD-DVD. I'd like to say that I'm very excited to see the BD versions of stuff like Bourne Ultimatum, but they'll probably be identical to the HD-DVD.

I am extremely excited for Serenity and Hot Fuzz, but the Bourne movies are not far behind.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Furthermore...

Paramount Goes Blu

So now all major studios have gone Blu-Ray, right?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Megalith

It depends which party you belong to. There are people who enjoy neutral sound, and then there are people who enjoy colored sound.

If you belong to the first group, you can bring an accurate pair of headphones to gauge the neutraility of the speaker's output. If you belong to the second, then you will just have to sit down and listen to determine what kind of sound you like.

Objectivity can be applied to the concept of neutral sound, but the quality of colored sound is always subjective. Since the majority of people are usually more concerned about "quality" rather than neutrality, I refuse to tell people what sounds "good," since ultimately, I can't. One man's emphasis on treble is another man's recipe for harshness, etc. Just sit down, listen to a few of your CDs, and stick with whatever sounds best to you.

EDIT: On the topic of CDs, I would bring a couple of movie scores or symphonies which feature a wide dynamic range. In my opinion, commercial pop/rock CDs are practically worthless to gauge performance. They are specifically mixed to sound good on even the most lowly equipment, since almost all dynamic range is compressed...meaning that you won't be able to gauge a speaker's ability to transition from low to high passages, or it's ability in maintaining a low noise floor (though most of the latter is influenced by amp/connections). I've found that scores like Episode III have sounded like complete trash on inadequate equipment, so it might be a good idea to pick a couple of scores that revolve around raw orchestrations, while ignoring more of the electronic-stuff, like Crimson Tide (which sounds oddly smooth and pleasant on almost all equipment).

Megalith, can you explain in further detail about the concept of Neutral sound and Colored sound?

There's nowhere I can't reach.