[General Discussion] Most worthless party members ever!

I think the argument is mostly that he takes a far more elaborate setup to do good damage (and it's still based on luck since fixed dice can do terrible damage too) while most other characters can be broken in that game with almost no effort at all. I don't think anyone in that game is actually worthless though except maybe Umaro, since the one thing Umaro really has going for him you could get out of Mog or Gau anyway which is the Snow Muffler I think.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Luckily Deni already said what I was going to.

Lots of characters seem shitty if you don't understand how to play the game, guys. Setzer was an unstoppable death machine.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

And not everyone can do Setzer's level of damage with the offering and the genji glove, since it knocked down damage fairly significantly.

There is no weak link in FF VI. They all have their abilities. Move on.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, the point is a lot of the other characters don't need offering+genji glove to get broken damage chains going but yeah, I agree for the most part anyway. You have a lot of control over the characters in that game, especially their stat growth, so it's hard to single any of them out as worthless.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Even their singled out concepts. Relm has the ridiculous magic stat, Shadow has his strength, Edgar has the chainsaw (6:10:50 fuckers), Sabin has well... everything. Everyone has their thing.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Oh. Okay, fair call; reading up on it now - the Fixed Dice/Doom Darts/Glove/Offering combo was something I never actually used. It had never crossed my mind that random damage levels wouldn't be cut. :P

Besides, Psycho Cyan > *

Another note: Someone mentioned Suikoden up above. Games with a massive pile of playable characters invariably have a few useless additions; Chrono Cross is pretty notorious here. Turnip is the only one who comes immediately to mind.

FELIPE NO

'Slot' is the most broken, overlooked powerhouse of an ability that I have seen in a final fantasy game. Ever heard of the 'Joker Doom' glitch? It will kill EVERY enemy/boss in the game in one turn. It takes a bit of work to get good at it, but damn its effective...not to mention the fact that Setzer's offering + Genji + Dice breaks the game anyway. Besides his combat abilities, his airship is infinitely useful.

No, I will agree that Setzer is among the BEST characters ever, certainly not the worst.

I agree that Sten is worthless. Bastard.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Also, he's just so bloody COOL. "My life is a chip in your pile. Ante up." Fucker is like the FONZ.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

There is no way anyone would argue that Setzer isn't a total badass anyway. Anyone who does should be banned from the forums because they are just poxes on civilization.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Genji glove + offering + dice + fixed dice = most ridiculously broken damage in the game because dice don't suffer from the lowered damage everything else gets from the Offering. Try again.

So using a broken combination on a shitty character making him not suck is a way to make a character non-worthless?

That's like saying Marle can be a decent physical attacker if you only save up all of your power tabs to dump into her.

To me a character is fairly worthless if you have to do a lot of work tweaking their initial stats in order to make them party-worthy. Of course, I've always been a fan of games like FF2 where you're stuck with whatever sort of character the game dumps on you with very little customization so it's more about tactical decisions during battle than figuring out a way to abuse game mechanics.

Quote:

Ever heard of the 'Joker Doom' glitch? It will kill EVERY enemy/boss in the game in one turn. It takes a bit of work to get good at it, but damn its effective.

Or you could just use Vanish and Doom/X-Zone and not need a one-trick pony in your team.

How ya doing, buddy?

That would hold up, son, if it wasn't for the fact that it's a character specific weapon that MAKES it breakable. It's an inherent aspect of Setzer that lets you do it. So it's more like saying giving Orlandu two swords is what makes him awesome in FFT. It's broken damage based on how awesome he is inherently.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

It's nothing like that. You just give out a few re-dispensable pieces of equipment to make Setzer useful. You can do that in a single play through the game without any power leveling or item grinding. To do anything like that for Marle would take MASSIVE EFFORT.

Also doesn't help that you do the same thing in almost every game ever made. You find something people deem "broken" and you run with it. lol @ strategy and tactics. These things don't exist in 95% of RPGs on the market unless you forcibly restrict yourself.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Actually you shouldn't say any character in FF6 is worthless, because Deni basically memorized the entire battle engine and would have written the mathematical formula that determine damages if he didn't think that he would look like an aspie among aspies on Gamefaqs.

I'll bite though. How can you make Mog broken?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Moogle charm + Kefka's Tower at obscenely low levels = equipment ++.

FELIPE NO

Well, you could always give him the Imp outfit. I think that managed to make just about anyone pretty darned strong.

Forsety, the thing is, unless you gave him that set of equipment that you got really late in the game he was pretty useless. Most other characters in the game could be pretty sweet at any time through the story, but for Setzer you need that set of stuff.

Then again, I just have uncommon taste in how I like games, so I figure it's just a different in preference for how games should play that makes certain characters crappy and not if they actually are or not.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Adding another nomination for the majority of the cast of Chrono Cross. I admit the Suikodens have many useless fools you can recruit but three things set them apart from CC:

1. Every character has a motivation for joining you in Suikoden. With Chrono Cross, they just happen to join with Serge out of the blue most of the time.

2. Suikoden has 108 characters that factor into the Stars of Destiny. Chrono Cross has....uh, a bunch of slots on the status screen.

3. Suikoden allows 6 party members (no one gives a fuck about IV). Chrono Cross allows only 3. And one of those is normally occupied by Serge.

Also, CC is mostly dependent on where you assign elements...Suikoden uses more base skill sets and allows for more creative party building. It just doesn't matter that much who you use in CC. I remember I used the dancer chick and the alien, and before that, the pro wrestler and the glam metal guy...Uh yeah.

Wasn't too sure what to do with Kimahri, so I just stopped using him in FFX.

Edit: I admit I thought Setzer was useless before I discovered the internet. I know better now.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Sten is mostly useless, but the fusions you could make with him in them were fairly potent, if'n I remember correctly.

Yeah, but even then, he's basicly just a weaker male version of Katt. Sure he has more mp, but that's not really the point for using either one of them. Sten and Bow were probably my least used characters. Granted I'm not saying Bow is useless, I know he's not, I just don't like Bow.

Also nice bit of info on Setzer, I didn't know about that. I used him anyhow, but I didn't know about that. The characters I always left behind when going to Kefka's tower were always Umaro and Gau.

I'm not really surprised someone told me about the usefulness of Gau. I do the same thing all the time to people that try to say Yuffie sucks.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Hah, I forgot about Star Ocean 3. Once Maria joined the party, I stuck with Fayt, Maria, and swapped regularly between Nel and Albel. The rest of the cast = worthless.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Mog + Paladin Shield + Snow Muffler = Broken.

For valid inquiries into worthless characters, I'd have to give a vote to Jangadance from Shadowrun for SNES. Jamaican guy who shoots you when you try to use the phone... that's about it. I usually just hire him just so I can blow him away, just for kicks.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Duh, Aeris. I mean, even the developers realized how terrible she was!

I was speaking idiomatically.

The spoony bard in FF2us/FF4j was absolutely worthless.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

In terms of the rpgs I have ever played I would have to say the most useless character I ever had the liberty of playing is definetely Chu-Chu from Xenogears.

I just couldn't find any kind of positive use for him. I literally only found him useful in one situation and thats fighting one of the final bosses that drains fuel from you every turn. Even though there were pieces of equipment that could prevent fuel loss, I didn't think of keeping any of that equipment until my second playthrough of the game. Other than that he was practically useless from my point of view.

I didn't think Kongol from Legend of Dragoon was a very good character at all. I hardly even used him. I only used him if I was fighting bosses that were wind elemental based and even then he got killed pretty quickly before I could do any positive elemental damage.

I would like to argue the fact that I feel that miranda and shana weren't as useless as everybody made them out to be. I constantly had shana in my party all the time because I found here dragoon move gates of heaven particularly useful in boss fights until meru joined the party and she learned her rainbow rain technique which then made the white dragoon practically useless after that except a few occassions. In dragoon form you can't use items, so when fighting a tough boss, to have an all healing spell while in dragoon form was a godsend for me.

I still vividly recall using miranda against both forums of the dvine dragon, because practically gates of heaven healed more then rainbow rain and we all know the divine dragon did mass amounts of damage.

In thousand arms I found kyleen kind of a worthless character out of the entire cast. I think she had the weakest set of special moves, and I didn't use her very often as the lead character. She was still fun to date though despite being a money grubbing gold digging whore.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by SouthJag

MOMO was kinda worthless in Xenosaga. Super-weak attacks, fairly weak Ether attacks compared to Shion, and in the first game even her AGWS was weak compared to the other ones, the one saving grace being that she could use Ether attacks while the rest couldn't.

AGWS were horrible anyway. In no situation were they useful. Even the best AGWS that you get at the end of the game was still not worth it. I've tried, and tried again to make one that you would think was useful, in the end I just gave up.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

As for the topic itself, I could be lame and just pick one of the many, many useless characters in the Suikoden or Pokemon series, but that's copping out. I want to say Grey from Valkyrie Profile (his attacks stink and his Purify Weird Soul has the lowest damage output out of any character), but I still feel like it's such an obscure choice.

Not really. I actually considered using him as a example as well, but didn't in the end, because I'd figured most people don't even know who he is. Grey is bad, I actually used him in one of my plays because I figured, because he's a heavy knight he's probably as good as Arngrim, turns out he wasn't, his damage output really is pathetic.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

The thing about Gau is that it was easy to miss some of the monsters that make him badass. The two major hitters that you'd want for Gau were the Pterodactyl from the raft ride, and the Gold Bear from Figaro Cave during Locke's scenario. The problem is that it's pretty easy to miss both monsters if you don't know you need to fight them.

Lewellyn in Valkyrie Profile was pretty bad too. I kept him around once trying to get some use out of him, but his damage is just too low. Sure, his massively multi-hit PWS is neat, but it's hardly a trick nobody else can do. Once Lenneth has a decent sword she can act as a combo filler all by herself.

Star Ocean 2 - Ernest. You have to give up an extra main character to bring him along (as opposed to just having to choose between mutually exclusive characters), and his special attacks are complete garbage. He takes so long to wind up for anything that the enemy has already moved or kicked him in the face. He doesn't even really hit that hard, either. It seems like his sole purpose is to dispense two Battle Suits via pickpocketing, which is nice but kinda lame in and of itself.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Montblanc - FFTA
Ivan - Golden Sun: Lost Age
Final Fantasy II - Maria
Riviera - Cierra
Eliwood, (Just sucks overall, without that glitched lance he sucks.) Wil, Lucius, Nino (eh... hell no, I am not going let Nino solo the entire map while others can make use out of it) - FE "Blazing Sword"

There's nowhere I can't reach.