Theological Discussion

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

And there were times when He wasn't so thrilled with his job, let me tell you.

I can see you two sitting around, passing a blunt, complaining about your jobs like this is a shitty Kevin Smith movie.

"I hate my job. I'm tired of filing paperwork"
"Yeah, well, you try walking on fuckin water, lady. Puff and pass."

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Getting into Heaven doesn't have anything to do with anything you do or don't do. All it takes is for you to accept that Jesus is what He said He was, and that He died for us so that we could have eternal life in Heaven.

That sounds a heck of a lot like all those Twilight Zone episodes where the guy offers someone something and in the end it turns out to be Satan.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

If I believe that, which I do, I'm in like Flynn.

You neuter animals with your teeth and a hunting knife?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by LeHah

I can see you two sitting around, passing a blunt, complaining about your jobs like this is a shitty Kevin Smith movie.

"I hate my job. I'm tired of filing paperwork"
"Yeah, well, you try walking on fuckin water, lady. Puff and pass."

I LOL'd. Yeah, I said "LOL'd." What?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Jesus only did as He was told.

So we should do the same, according to the Life of Jesus?

Now I see why you guys voted for Bush. ^_^ (ITS A JOKE. CALM DOWN)

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And there were times when He wasn't so thrilled with his job, let me tell you. It wasn't His big idea, by the way - it was His lot in life. It was the idea of the God of the Jews to make Jesus the only way into Heaven. Is it His fault that His own people rejected Him?

Can we talk about Mohammed yet? I'm Jesused-out. He's a pretty boring guy.

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I have no choice but to believe that, if I believe in Jesus and his teachings, which I do.

You do have a choice. But whatever. I'm not going to preach to you about it. =/

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See, that's the beauty of it. Getting into Heaven doesn't have anything to do with anything you do or don't do. All it takes is for you to accept that Jesus is what He said He was, and that He died for us so that we could have eternal life in Heaven. That's it.

Is THAT what they're telling you these days?

So I guess those commandments are pretty null and void anymore. ;_; I kinda liked those.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Those little commandment thingys are guidelines on how God wants you to live. You can break all of them and still get into Heaven.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Those little commandment thingys are guidelines on how God wants you to live. You can break all of them and still get into Heaven.

Theres something very wrong with your religion if you can break "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and still get in line for Saint Peter's list.

You trying to tell me John Wayne Gacey is in your Heaven?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5: 17-20

It's complicated. I'm not copping out. It just is. Christ is the fulfillment of the Law. What this means is that, basically, the law is obsolete, not because its meaningless, but because you don't have to deal with it anymore. He pays for all of your mistakes. It's like when a kid breaks a window. Instead of suing the kid, the parent pays for it. Jesus is your guardian who pays for all your broken windows, if you accept that He can and did.

FELIPE NO

It's such a great example of how loving Jesus really is. He wants you to get into Heaven so badly that He made it pretty much the easiest thing ever, even if you're a murderer.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Besides, being a murderer is kinda moot when you're an immortal soul, floating around the Nth dimension.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

It's such a great example of how loving Jesus really is. He wants you to get into Heaven so badly that He made it pretty much the easiest thing ever, even if you're a murderer.

Then I love the fact that people who work in the Peace Corps or people like Ghandi are in such good company as Hitler or serial murderers.

Why the fuck was Satan cast out then? You can't have it both ways.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Satan was cast out because he wanted to usurp God.

Hitler was vehemently anti-Christian, so no worries there.

The point is, Lehah, that we all deserve to go to hell. Yeah, even Ghandi, probably. How can you really judge the man? You only know the great thing he did. Maybe he was a shit as a kid. Who knows? The point is, if God sent everyone to hell who deserved it, he'd be pretty lonely up there. But He's takes us as we are, so long as we genuinely want to be with him.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

As much as I think perspective is good, I think respecting people's decisions, and respecting them as intelligent human beings able to make their own decisions is good also.

So while someone might ask me if I have accepted Jesus into my heart, or hands me what is essentially a Christian propaganda comic book while I'm on the job, I am probably not going to entertain it as the life-changing event evangelism would like it to be.

Spreading the word of God can be accomplished just as well by serving as a living and constant reminder-- an example of what Christianity can foster inside our hearts and souls.

I am not Christian. I don't think I ever will be. But I don't think either extreme, either dismissing the religion out of hand, or extolling its virtues consistently to unreceptive people, allows for that large degree of human capability.

Fuck you, cynics. Stop treating everyone like they're a stupid asshole and you'll stop creating stupid assholes.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You've got a point, Skex. And I'm far from innocent here. I think we'd all do well to give each other's culture/religion/whatever more than a passing thought, for the sake of general peace.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Minion

Satan was cast out because he wanted to usurp God.

Originally Posted by Minion

How can you really judge the man?

I like how your ideology is full of shit.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't know what that means, but I'm guessing you're asking why I can't judge but God can? Which is kinda obvious. Omniscience and all.

Oh, and try not to make an ass of yourself. I have no problem thread banning you.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LeHah

I like how your ideology is full of shit.

Care to elaborate on this highly intelligent, well-thought-out and thought-provoking sentiment?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Care to elaborate on this highly intelligent, well-thought-out and thought-provoking sentiment?

To believe in God is to make an exception as he is a entity separate from the existence of Man and Nature. A special exception can only be proved in a special manner - you know, you need pretty overwhelming facts to back up pretty overwhelming truths. Your faith - Catholicism - is thusly only then a true and factual one when special effects, appearances of God, miracles, are believed in. (Have either of you seen a miracle? And I don't mean giving birth or a nice sunset either)

On the other hand, your belief in God is identified with the belief in the world around you, where the belief in God is no longer a special exception, where the being of the world takes possession of the whole person, there also vanishes the belief in special effects and appearances of God.

The theory of God is wrecked, is stranded on your belief in the world, in natural effects as the only true ones - that the world is a literal thing, as opposed to miracles, which are not to be proven literally. And here - the belief in miracles is no longer anything more than the belief in historical, past miracles, (unless either of you have witnessed something utterly unexplainable as to only be available to the theory of God) so the existence of God is also only an historical, in itself atheistic idea.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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The theory of God is wrecked, is stranded on your belief in the world

Or the Bible/Ressurection? Which I'm sorry to say has some secular historical backing. Not to mention the Dead Sea Scrolls which predate Jesus and contain numerous prophecies about him.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Minion

Or the Bible/Ressurection? Which I'm sorry to say has some secular historical backing. Not to mention the Dead Sea Scrolls which predate Jesus and contain numerous prophecies about him.

Thats moot. I can make 5000 predictions and I bet you someone in some way-off future will say I was right about something, even if they had to stretch the truth to get it to fit.

It's a matter of figures, odds, numbers.

Not to mention, the Bible's "secular backing" is somewhat iffy given that the Bible was written how long after the death of your Lord?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Am I the only person reading this and going in the back of my mind, isn’t it just a tad supercilious of the human race to conceptualize an entity that can create an entire universe as physically anthropomorphic. Or, does the various references of “he” in this thread isn’t to be taken in a literal context? I seriously can’t tell with Christians most of the time.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by SMX

Am I the only person reading this and going in the back of my mind, isn’t it just a tad supercilious of the human race to conceptualize an entity that can create an entire universe as physically anthropomorphic. Or, does the various references of “he” in this thread isn’t to be taken in a literal context? I seriously can’t tell with Christians most of the time.

Thats another part of the silliness of it all.

The universe, we imagine, is centered around us. Its the way humans think. Everything is here for us. Maybe we're just the only animals on the planet that have the ability to reason and use logic to such levels. Maybe thats why we have the superiority complex. Its a curse if you ask me. ;_;

Scientists once thought that the sun spun around us, too. Oops. They were wrong.

We are not the center of everything. The sooner we learn this, the sooner we can make a little progress. ;_;

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by SMX

Am I the only person reading this and going in the back of my mind, isn’t it just a tad supercilious of the human race to conceptualize an entity that can create an entire universe as physically anthropomorphic. Or, does the various references of “he” in this thread isn’t to be taken in a literal context? I seriously can’t tell with Christians most of the time.

Would you prefer "It"? I fail to see what difference it makes whether we refer to God as "He" "She" or "It."

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Would you prefer "It"? I fail to see what difference it make whether we refer to God as "He" "She" or "It."

It would explain the psychology of a person who cast a perfectly good angel out of Heaven for trying to advance himself in the ranks of Heaven.

It's not like angels are easy to come by. I think God must be a man. He sucks at politics. ;_;

FELIPE NO

Everything you say about God is a metaphor, including the pronoun "he" because He is, by definition, unlike anything in the natural world and therefore outside of our combined experiences and beyond literal description.

Satan wasn't trying to advance, Sass. He was trying to take over. It was a failed coup, essentially. God gave him power second only to His own and because of pride, he believed that he was actually stronger than God and wanted to destroy Him. He failed and paid for it, along with the 1/3 of the angels who followed him.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I just want to insert a comment, and that is that we are not 100% sure that this is really the case. There are things hinted at here and there throughout the books of the prophets which suggest some sort of falling out, and there really is nothing in the bible to contradict what Minion is saying, but it certainly is not blatantly said in scripture. What IS clearly said though is that satan's desire is to oppose and attempt to thwart God.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Minion

Everything you say about God is a metaphor, including the pronoun "he" because He is, by definition, unlike anything in the natural world and therefore outside of our combined experiences and beyond literal description.

I guess you should take the Bible as a metaphor, then. =/

Fyodor - I was taught that Satan was a fallen angel. I don't know what Bible you're reading.

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Satan wasn't trying to advance, Sass. He was trying to take over.

Who can blame him? With a dude like God in power, I would try to take over, too. Telling people weird shit. Come on. If you want to convince people, you've got to make the story believable!

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It was a failed coup, essentially. God gave him power second only to His own and because of pride, he believed that he was actually stronger than God and wanted to destroy Him. He failed and paid for it, along with the 1/3 of the angels who followed him.

Thats fucking awesome, dude.

But, you know, theres no such thing as pure good or evil. I bet Satan is a fucking softy.

There's nowhere I can't reach.