Japanese Students/Fluents, Give me Your Advice!

You rarely have a clue. Even if the signs where based on real things, they have evolved so much that you have to be really imaginative if you want to find it's meaning. Can you recognize a fish in 魚?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Minion

True, but on the other hand, the look of English words doesn't suggest anything about their meaning, whereas the way a Kanji looks might give a clue as to what it means.

Somewhat.
The problem is that with many kanji, to be able to understand what it means through the symbols necessitates that you know the history OF that kanji, because many times it makes no sense in modern understanding.
For example, the word for "cool" (as in temperature) is comprised of the symbol for water and part of the symbol combination for Kyoto.
Unfortunately, that makes no sense unless you understand that at the time of the kanji's conception, Kyoto was known to very hot and humid in the summers. Thus, splashing water in Kyoto makes sense. But only after you already knew the background.

Sorry Minion, but your analogy to the reading of only parts of words is somewhat inaccurate. The reason why we skim over words instead of reading them letter for letter is BECAUSE we have become very familiar and already have an understanding of the symbol combinations.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I guess I'm just more of a visual learner. I couldn't tell you how that kanji looks like a fish, but I can tell you that I'll never forget it now. I can't write all the kanji I've learned, but I've never forgotten any.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Minion

The same is true for words, though. There are words that look the same and have different meaning, there is context to be considered in English, and I can say for certain that there are way more exceptions to the "rules" of English than there are to the rules of Japanese.

I recall reading that there is a fundamental difference in learning an Asian language vs. learning a Western one, primarily how learning to read and write an Asian language involves much more of the right hemisphere of the brain, than a european language does. I don't have a source, though. Assuming that it's true, it hints at a valid scientific reason why some Westerners might have difficulties with Kanji, while tackling the remaining elements of learning (grammar, pronunciation, listening comprehension) with relative ease.

Given that several people who have studied kanji in this thread, have already given testimony of how they've perceived it to be different, and in some ways more difficult than learning a Western language, and given that you don't like to let an argument drop, you might want to give learning them a try, even if your incentive is to prove everyone else wrong.

Set a goal to learn the 2 most common readings for the first 5 grades of Kanji. (Japanese schoolchildren learn a certain set of kanji in each grade.) Give yourself a couple months to do it, and then let us know the results.

I was speaking idiomatically.

From what many expats living in Japan say, it's not even the Kanji that proves to be the biggest problem, it's the grammar. Kanji seems to be the biggest hump at first, but really, it's not.

I mean, in just over a week of studying, I had over 100 Kanji memorized, which I retained for a couple of months. I lost interest though, and my sources were somewhat limited or even inaccurate. It's as simple as memorizing 10 a day. BUT. That doesn't mean you can read them in context, understand their jukogu, use them properly in a sentence, or understand the meaning as quickly as you would in English.

Basically, it's both easy and hard. That's just Kanji, not to mention the grammar, and vocabulary. If someone says they're fluent in Japanese, or almost any language for that matter after doing 3 years of independent study, I call BS. Even for the most adept person, it takes years of dedication, practice, experience, and boredom (because no matter how interested you are, it will be boring at points) to become fluent, if even that. There are tons of people who do a degree in Japanese, go to Japan, and find they have no actual grasp of the language.

More power to whoever can stick through with it, though.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Minion

I guess I'm just more of a visual learner. I couldn't tell you how that kanji looks like a fish, but I can tell you that I'll never forget it now. I can't write all the kanji I've learned, but I've never forgotten any.

How many kanji will you be able to retain though, if you are putting a concerted effort into it?
You have probably been exposed to about 50, at the most, kanji symbols, and probably over an expanse of years.
One has to learn at least 500 to get by in common Japan, and about 1500 to be really involved in it.
And I am referring to a thorough understanding of the symbols in all of their possible contexts, included added to other kanji, other hiragana, etc. Not just a vague familiarity.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

given that you don't like to let an argument drop, you might want to give learning them a try, even if your incentive is to prove everyone else wrong.

You give me far too much credit, Squirrel. I'm way too lazy to accomplish that.

But yeah, I guess I should drop it. I don't really have anything more to say anyway.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

hi ya Deadally, I agree with others said. Dont study kanji before you advance youself, I mean understanding the grammar and such on. Studying kanji without dictionary or the furigana will frustate you extremely. I think you should start after have good amount vocabulary. Reading children books especially helps because they have furigana in it, and you will eventually familiarize with it.

Well I'm studying japanese too. If this thread gonna be japanese-language help center then I will join in the discussion to improve my lame skill.^_^

How ya doing, buddy?