![]() |
||
|
|
Welcome to the Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis. |
GFF is a community of gaming and music enthusiasts. We have a team of dedicated moderators, constant member-organized activities, and plenty of custom features, including our unique journal system. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ or our GFWiki. You will have to register before you can post. Membership is completely free (and gets rid of the pesky advertisement unit underneath this message).
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools |
I guess it's because they're brutal that people aren't supposed to like them, but then again that's the only defining aspect for why the Empire is evil in Star Wars. =P
I would still refer back to Tarkin's mention of the governors, however, since the Empire has absolute sovereignty over the Galaxy. Because it has absolute sovereignty, then every single inhabited world would be under the control of a Moff. Whether Moffs have administration over a sector of space or individual planets isn't specified, but even assuming it's the latter, that doesn't mean that individual Moffs can't band together to form self-serving alliances, again like the Chinese. It just occurred to me, though. What ultimately made the Union right wasn't the opposition of slavery on behalf of the abolitionists. Lincoln himself admitted that it was impossible to determine whether or not God's favor would be for the North or the South, despite the fact that both invoked his name assuming they were right. What made the Union right was in that the States were more powerful as a Federation than a Confederation, and it's along those same lines that the Independance could've been in the wrong during the war. There's nowhere I can't reach.
Last edited by Bradylama; Mar 13, 2006 at 05:32 PM.
|
However, I place just as much blame on the fans. I'm tired of the internet telling me that Firefly is "important" and "revolutionary" when it's neither. I'm sure we'd be getting the same bullshit story if Buffy came out 5 years later, since 1996 was still a little early for the general public to be using the internet en masse.
Again, we're brought back to the idea that Mal is just plain biased. We're never given the Alliance's point of view - and while, yes, they're painted as being an oppresive ubergovernment, not all the systems resisted Alliance rule during the war.
However, Star Wars is also a Hero's Journey thing like Beowulf, while Firefly is more like Gettysburg.
1.) Any tactician will tell you that for something like the Rebellion to exist, there has to be other operating cells. That is to say - Hoth may be the largest base for the Alliance but it's not the only one, either. So, the Rebellion isn't in full force, so to speak. 2.) The Alliance hadn't been in Hoth very long. They're still having problems with closing the doors, Han and Luke are still placing markers, they're "having trouble adapting (the speeders) to the cold" and they run into previously unknown indigenous life when Luke is attacked by the Wampa. 3.) Star Destroyers aren't bitch ships. I won't go into detail because theres something like 10 "canon" sources for ship stats and they all contradict each other - but needless to say that a single Star Destroyer can easily blockade a planet and maybe even an entire system provided they have a good commanding officer.
I'm sure that the Death Star was also inteded to keep Moffs from "self-serving alliances".
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. ![]()
Last edited by Misogynyst Gynecologist; Mar 13, 2006 at 10:23 PM.
|
As am I, and while you've made several points which are possible for me to argue, I would like to point out a few things:
Nonetheless, if Hoth is the Rebel's biggest base, and they are as much a significant threat to the Empire as independant Moffs would be to each other, why can't they meet the Imperials toe to toe? They have no heavy assault weapons, no large capital ships (at the time that we know of), and no sizeable army. Yes, they haven't had much time to prepare on Hoth, but then they should at least have something on-world that can rival the AT-STs, if they're that significant of a threat. The absence of any indication of a major military power indicates that the Rebels are still using hit and run guerilla tactics. Then again, I suppose this is a case of the absence of evidence not being the evidence of absence. Because we can't see them doesn't necessarily mean that the Rebels aren't capable of meeting the Imperials in the ways that I have described, though I'm fairly confident that the Rebels don't present the kind of threat you're implying because I recall there being at least a slight mention that the Rebels were throwing in everything they could spare at Endor, and that they were showing up in full force. Then again, I suppose we don't know whether or not the Empire was there in full force, I can just highly doubt it. I also think that if Lucas wanted the Rebels to have all of those cool toys, then he would feature them. The Rebels aren't as alluring, after all, if they're no longer underdogs.
It's been a while since I've seen Firefly as well, so I guess the only concrete thing I have to base my view of the Alliance is Whedon's commentary on the Serenity DVD I bought around Christmas. I think in the show, the only indication of that we get was that the Alliance worlds were clean and cosmopolitan, while the Rim worlds were rugged and all that good jazz. It's a simple Black Cape plot device, but I guess it could all just be a bunch of hooey. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
But what I'm saying is that I'm sure that "civilians" are rebelling against the Empire after the Battle Of Endor.
This isn't to say that the Rebellion doesn't have warships but look at the majority of what they do have: Nebulon-Bs, some Mon Cal cruisers and some blockade runners. Thats small beans and they don't have the resources to restock readily - you cannot have an open rebellion against something as oppressive as a major industrial war machine without it being quashed completely. Another unoffical-but-cute story in EU involves the early years of Tarkin, who sullied a protest by ordering his shuttle land on the people in the picket line.
Most amazing jew boots ![]()
Last edited by Misogynyst Gynecologist; Mar 14, 2006 at 12:09 AM.
|
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Most amazing jew boots ![]() |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
The idea of The Allience isn't evil, the surface of The Allience isn't evil, but the inner-workings of it are. When any one group thinks that there way is the right way and the only way, and they'll do anything to make the world as they envision it... that's evil.
Like it said in the movie, people don't like to be meddled with, and that's exactly what The Allience is doing. They are also discriminating against anyone who isn't under Allience rule by calling them savages. Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Or are you supporting slavery? Defend yourself - or are you a sadist? There's nowhere I can't reach. ![]() |
I think you're taking this way too seriously, LeHah. It's a TV show, calm down.
The Alliance and the Union are two entirely different things, with only some similarities. I conclude my argument by saying this "Teh Aliance is EVAL!!!111one" ![]() This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Last edited by Cyantre; Mar 14, 2006 at 12:54 PM.
|
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? ![]() |
Ooh, excuse me. Sorry, but you don't own this message board so stop being so arrogant.
I was speaking idiomatically. |
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? ![]() |
Please, get a life. FELIPE NO |
You hijacked this thread with your crap - I was having an excellent discussion with a better person than yourself. So how about you let the adults go back to talking? I already reported one of your shitty little posts anyway. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? ![]() |
I'm reporting your post too, you're using foul language and making general insults. This is a message board, and if you want to talk to just one other person, go get yourself an IM client. Just because you can't handle differing opinions and a change of pace...
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
There's nowhere I can't reach. ![]() |
Callipygian Superman |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. ![]() >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 Long Live Lost LiveJournal: Latest Entry: My Political Leanings. Latest JOURNAL Entry: ITE: I review the latest album by The Guillemots (also, exam results) |
Actually I've been here for a while, but I re-registered. You have no ettiqute what so ever. Just because you don't like what someone has to say you feel a need to insult them. I don't care if you were having an "intelligent conversation" with someone else. As I recall this message board has 3,050 members, not two.
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
That second part is awful and stupid though.
Do not expect me to give you my respect for no reason. That has to be earned. If I don't like what you have to say - so the fuck what? Is your skin so thin? Why do you care? This is the internet and if you have such a gripe with people telling you to fuck off and die - you need to log off and get a life.
I was speaking idiomatically. ![]()
Last edited by Misogynyst Gynecologist; Mar 14, 2006 at 02:20 PM.
|
INTERNET. SERIOUS BUSINESS.
*ahem* Spoilers Ahead I'm mainly basing this off of Serenity, since I only caught like 2-3 episodes of Firefly when it was on Fox, but I'd say the Alliance is... well to make an analogy they are sort of like the Dark Jedi. While the Sith are probably evil to a degree, with thier total dedication to the 'dark side' of the force. The 'dark jedi' employ BOTH sides of the force in thier uses. The Alliance seems to use the good of thier technology and influence as a lawmaking body to improve human life in thier perspective, and they will go to decidedly morally questionable methods to do so. The Military experiments on River (As seen in the opening of Serenity) seem to show that thier darker side is towards domination of the entire system, presumably under Good intentions, of 'Civillizing' the outer world 'cowboys'. The situation with the Reavers probably showed best thier methods: They wanted to create peace, even using artificial forced means, but the unexpected death of almost all the population of Miranda, and insanity of the survivors (Reavers) stopped thier more forceful methods, and so they turned more towards a slow, steady pace, (much like how Palpatine slowly rose though the ranks of the Senate and Poltical Arenas to gain control of the empire, through legal means) of getting everyone in the stystem under thier control. There's also the question of what the motives of those in charge actually are. They could be evil, under a guise of 'peace'. (Echoing the Emperor's stated intentions to Anakin in Ep. III) for control of the entire start system... or they could be good, using evil methods to get to thier goals. That's how I see it anyway, but I need to go back and watch Firefly, because I probably funked up some stuff in what I said. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? ![]() |
See, the problem is that we don't know *anything* about the Alliance. Fandom assumes far too much when we know all too little. It's easy to demonize them as some oppressive government - but how far does that go exactly? All we know is this - Mal and Zoe were on the losing side of a major war and the people they confront from the Alliance are military or of some type of defense service. What if the show was shown from the perspective of the Alliance? Mal and Zoe would be terrorists or fugatives. Smugglers, to be sure. But obviously there is more to them than that - as we see in the series.
Yes, the Alliance created Reavers. They did so by accident, mind you. It wasn't a grand evil experiment - the evil was that they tried to cover it up at all. Your attempt to use Palpatine in your speech makes little or no sense. Can you be a bit more specific?
FELIPE NO ![]() |
Callipygian Superman |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? ![]() >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 Long Live Lost LiveJournal: Latest Entry: My Political Leanings. Latest JOURNAL Entry: ITE: I review the latest album by The Guillemots (also, exam results) |
On one hand, we don't know about the Executor until ESB. So it *could* exist during ANH because theres no statement in the film or radio drama that the ship is still under construction. On the other hand, if you want to add Expanded Universe to the arguement, the Al Williamson comic strip features the Executor immedeately after the Battle Of Yavin. So which is it? The fact that the movie's "lack of evidence" takes precident over any EU, so we should err on the side of caution. How ya doing, buddy? ![]() |
The Executor's situation in A New Hope could theoretically be both, actually. While Executor could have been for all intents and purposes complete at the time of the Battle of Yavin, there could have also still been minor work still to be done, undergoing builders' trials and such, and the ship would still be in KDY's hands. However, when the Rebels destroyed the Death Star, the Empire could have then brought that to an end and pressed into service immediately to help make up for the lost firepower the Death Star represented. (A historical example would be the Royal Navy pressing HMS Prince of Wales into service to face Bismarck.)
This suffers from the same lack of evidence that other possibilities suffer, but it's as plausible as they are. Also, Cyantre, I read your reports, and read the thread and the path it took after you posted in it. You say LeHah was "harassing" you. Judging by your posts, you disrupted an intelligent conversation with stupidity (after not reading the thread, apparently) and got LeHah mad at you for it.
There's nowhere I can't reach. |