PLAY!/Eminence Split Thread

I think those who're in the position to pay more than $100 for going to a concert and another $50 for meeting a few composers may as well can, as long as they don't feel ripped off.
While I personally don't give a shit whether or not Play used Disney material illegaly, I'd definitely consider the satisfaction of the composers an important aspect for chosing which concert to attend to. But again, I think VGL and Play aren't alternatives to each other, I mean, most people can go to BOTH and get the FULL game music experience.

Luckily, Thomas Böcker's GC concerts don't have those problems, the tickets are cheap and the concert offers a great selection of premieres and special guests. Definitely attending this next year.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Long time lurker of these threads, little-time poster. But after reading these threads, it's compelled me to compliment a few people.

Mr. Maul, I wish I had more time to devote to forums because I'd love to debate with you .

Seraph, hearing of Eminence made my interest in Game Music rise once again. Almost makes me want to Study Abroad in Australia so I might get a chance to hear one of your concerts.

And Tommy, you've gained my utmost respect. As a soon-to-be Graduate of a Viola Performance and Composition Undergrad degree (with high interests in making game music accessable) - I'm glad that there is someone out there in the industry with a level-head and keen sense of humor. I'm now sad that I missed the Chicago concert when it came by (due to a vacation), since that's only a 4-hour drive, but I will be eagerly anticipating a stop by this area whenever a new tour schedule is released!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Tommy,

Thanks for your response. It's clear that there are a lot of misconceptions about VGL going about due to propaganda etc. and I'm glad you were able to clear them up.

The true 'symphonic game music concert' bit came from hearing of a lack of performers on stage and how VGL utilised synth principally on some occasions. Furthermore, with VGL's emphasis on audience participation, rock concert features, and an overall fun image, I wasn't sure what the standard of the performances were like to complement this. I'm not sure how musically mature VGL's arrangements are, but it's clear you use competent orchestrators and an experienced conductor. I might be going to the London VGL performance, so soon I should be able to see for myself.

I apologise for making you feel uncomfortable. The questions were inspired by curiosity and a need to clarify confusion that to be accusational or intimidating. It's my intention to be open and honest, not offensive, though when there is contrasting views coming from all parties -- largely from people intent on self-promotion -- I have little idea what to think other than it has become one big mess. Maybe PLAY! is the only enemy in this, though I still feel Seraph acted unprofessionally and find it regrettable that you and Jason are clearly at war (though you seem to have good reason).

Finally, it's admirable that, despite everything, you've not sacrificed your integrity by degrading PLAY! beyond in a 'political' sense. I'm really pleased you stated 'I LOVE the fact that VGM has gotten so popular that it's offering the audiences different choices and options. Heck! I say to everyone... PLEASE GO TO ALL OF THEM!! SUPPORT EVERYONE!!'. It's in this point that you appear to be considering all audiences and VGM in general. I have much much respect that you and Thomas are both able to do this, but it's a shame Jason and Seraph still can't.

Tetre,

Is that one of your compliments?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

It's clear that there are a lot of misconceptions about VGL going about due to propaganda etc. and I'm glad you were able to clear them up.

'he gave his perspective on the topic'. i have a hard time beliving that everything he said MUST be right suddenly. no offense, t. t., i would not trust jason michel paul or whoevr. both of you are too much into promoting your own thign. t. t. obviously is very very clever in doing so.

Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

I have little idea what to think other than it has become one big mess. Maybe PLAY! is the only enemy in this, though I still feel Seraph acted unprofessionally and find it regrettable that you and Jason are clearly at war (though you seem to have good reason).

it is not regrettabel, it should put both in shame because they are adults and no children anymore.

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Quote:

'he gave his perspective on the topic'. i have a hard time beliving that everything he said MUST be right suddenly. no offense, t. t., i would not trust jason michel paul or whoevr.

Well, I'm inclined to agree to an extent. If what Tommy says is entirely accurate, I still don't understand why I've heard reports from many people independent from PLAY! stating that VGL isn't equivalent a symphonic concert in terms of performance quality and use of live instruments (i.e. lots of synth use, some shoddy performances, etc.). However, most of his points seemed reasonable.

Quote:

both of you are too much into promoting your own thign. t. t. obviously is very very clever in doing so.

Maybe so. As I've stated, everyone is self-promoting and putting their own spin on things, making the situation rather terrible right now. Tommy has made great contributions to VGM, though, and is a talented and passionate musician, so I hold him in greater esteem that Jason. Furthermore, I'm glad he's willing to promote everyone and think that is largely sincere, even though there's likely a double agenda as well.

Quote:

it is not regrettabel, it should put both in shame because they are adults and no children anymore.

It's regrettable for the world of game music. I don't have that much sympathy for the individuals, though.

By the way, I apologise for unintentionally offending all of the four major producers (Tommy T, Thomas Boecker, Hiroaki Yura, and Jason M. Paul) in the space of a week. I'm outspoken, critical, and stupid, but still ultimately love VGM and feel all of you make constructive contributions to it in some way. It's just a shame pretty much everyone clouds the truth with a desire for self-promotion and money. This competition is terrible.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by tetre

And Tommy, you've gained my utmost respect. As a soon-to-be Graduate of a Viola Performance and Composition Undergrad degree (with high interests in making game music accessable) - I'm glad that there is someone out there in the industry with a level-head and keen sense of humor. I'm now sad that I missed the Chicago concert when it came by (due to a vacation), since that's only a 4-hour drive, but I will be eagerly anticipating a stop by this area whenever a new tour schedule is released!

Thanks for the compliment. We'll be back in your area in 2007. Plans are already being made.

Thanks!


Tommy








Double Post:

Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

Tommy,


The true 'symphonic game music concert' bit came from hearing of a lack of performers on stage and how VGL utilised synth principally on some occasions.

Thanks for the response Mr. Maul. I can understand why you would mistakingly think and feel the way you do in regards to a "true symphonic" experience. The lies that Mr. Paul has spoken about us is of course (as usual) completely untrue and should be disregarded as nothing more than trying to give us a bad name. Yes, during 5 segments of Video Games Live we use a synth because that is exactly what the composers used originally when they composed the pieces! Tron, Metal Gear Solid, Halo, Beyond Good & Evil and Myst are the songs. But the synths are used in conjunction with the orchestra... not by themselves as Mr. Paul has falsely claimed in interviews.

If you read the VGL thread on these forums a poster just recently commented on how much better she enjoyed our performance of Metal Gear Solid as opposed to Play! That's because it would be difficult to recreate the original recording without the use of electronic drums, synths, etc. Many people have said the same exact thing about their Halo performance when compared to ours. Again... I think it's cool that the pieces are being performed and translated in different ways! The difference is that you'll never hear me say... "WE DO IT BETTER!! WE'RE RIGHT AND THEY SUCK!! THEY'RE UNPROFESSIONAL LOSERS AND FAILURES WHO ARE STEALING MY MARKET SHARE THAT IS RIGHTFULLY MINE!" Some may find the way we do things to be cool because we try to recreate the piece the way it was intentional played. Others may find it interesting to hear it completely symphonically with no electronics. Cool!! I personally prefer the way we do it which is why we do it that way. I'm not going to try and tear down Play! because they play a more acoustic version. Why would I? How is that helping to further VGM to the masses?? Too bad the Play! folks don't follow the same mentality.



Feel free to check out any of the 130+ videos of our show that you'll find on YouTube. Here's one of my favorites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VTnNDCOWPU (although the audio on the camera/capture was off)


Tommy






Double Post:

Originally Posted by Meiusta

'he gave his perspective on the topic'. i have a hard time beliving that everything he said MUST be right suddenly. no offense, t. t., i would not trust jason michel paul or whoevr. both of you are too much into promoting your own thign. t. t. obviously is very very clever in doing so.

Please understand that my intention was NOT to promote Video Games Live in this discussion and I don't feel I have done so. My intention was to DEFEND the lies and misinformation that Play! has spread.

I listed FACTS and not opinions regarding this matter. There shouldn't be any kind of discussion as to why you should or shouldn't believe me. Remember the points I made...

1. Why does he lie on the front page of his site? Not my opinion... FACT.

2. Why does he lie about the size of our show? Not my opinion... FACT.

3. Why are his ticket prices so high when clearly they don't need to be. Not my opinion... FACT.

4. Why did he announce on his website that he was playing with the Indianapolis Symphony? Not my opinion... FACT.


It's not a question of believing me or not... It's just a question of clicking on those links I provided and making a descision based on what Play! themselves have said. I don't think that should be constrewed as me being a "double agent" or "clever marketing genius"... I'm just trying to defend all of the hard work & passion that people like ourselves, Emminence & Thomas Boecker put into promoting VGM and how easily Play! tries to tear it down because they unfairly view everyone else as competition and they want to "crush" and "dominate" us all.

Good luck! He's got a LONG way to go!! Hope he's in for the long haul cause we'll be doing this and promoting VGM for the rest of our lives as I have done for the past 16+ years.


Tommy

FELIPE NO

Tommy,

Thanks for the reply.

The explanation of the synth issue is appreciated. It makes me feel much more about VGL as a symphonic experience. I'm amazed about the misinformation going around. I'll be sure to check out YouTube to hear for myself.

As I've previously said, I might be going to VGL in London (really hope so), though I'm not sure if it'll clash with the biggest university of the year. I'd really like to experience it and will hopefully like it. Even if I don't, at least I'll be less naive and confused.

I still find it regrettable all this surfaced in a public forum that has a lot of big personalities and plenty of piracy (no offence to Gamingforce). I truly believe there could have been a better way for you to clear up all the misinformation or for the truth about Jason to get out. All this fighting between PLAY!, Eminence, and VGL surely compromises a lot of people (fans, composers, and performers alike) and certainly doesn't do the image of VGM much good. However, I agree that the actions of Jason have often been unacceptable and am glad to have been made aware of them. It's just a shame that nobody is going to come out of this affair too well.

Anyway, I still support you, Tommy, and VGL, though am not abandoning support for anyone. I still think PLAY!, Leipzig, VGL, and Eminence offer unique things to the VGM world and, while it's easy and tempting to adopt Meiusta's viewpoint, I'll only do this with regards to the politics. Producers appear to be nasty people hell-bent on deceit and self-promotion (though I'm sure a few are lovely underneath), but at least you create good music.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

Tommy,

Thanks for the reply.

The explanation of the synth issue is appreciated. It makes me feel much more about VGL as a symphonic experience. I'm amazed about the misinformation going around. I'll be sure to check out YouTube to hear for myself.

As I've previously said, I might be going to VGL in London (really hope so), though I'm not sure if it'll clash with the biggest university of the year. I'd really like to experience it and will hopefully like it. Even if I don't, at least I'll be less naive and confused.

I still find it regrettable all this surfaced in a public forum that has a lot of big personalities and plenty of piracy (no offence to Gamingforce). I truly believe there could have been a better way for you to clear up all the misinformation or for the truth about Jason to get out. All this fighting between PLAY!, Eminence, and VGL surely compromises a lot of people (fans, composers, and performers alike) and certainly doesn't do the image of VGM much good. However, I agree that the actions of Jason have often been unacceptable and am glad to have been made aware of them. It's just a shame that nobody is going to come out of this affair too well.

Yo!,

If you end up coming to the London show please let me know so we can meet up.

I honestly don't believe in my heart that the VGM image is going to be hurt by any of this. True passion and love for what people do will win out in the end and come across in each and every performance. Yes, it's a shame that certain people feel the need to try and tarnish others... but putting on performances in front of tens of thousands of people each year has a much greater impact than someone trash talking on an internet forum or some website interview.

The music, show, audience and performance is what really matters. We feel very proud and confident that the show we have put together is special, unique and very enjoyable for a mass audience as well as the hardcore fans. At the end of the day... if people enjoy it... that's all that matters. Ultimately, what one person says negatively about the rest of us will have no bearing on the success of each individual producer/show.

Thanks again for keeping an open mind and please make sure to let me know if you'll be attending the London event.


Tommy

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

Tetre,
Is that one of your compliments?

Yes

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

I honestly don't believe in my heart that the VGM image is going to be hurt by any of this. True passion and love for what people do will win out in the end and come across in each and every performance.

I'm certain you're right. I think most people who are deep enough into their live VGM music experience to care about things of this scope, know that their love for VGM won't die, no matter what kind of off-the-mark things are going on in the production. Someone who appreciates beauty (in art) will always be able to follow their passion, despite what others may believe.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Mr. Maul

I still find it regrettable all this surfaced in a public forum that has a lot of big personalities and plenty of piracy (no offence to Gamingforce). I truly believe there could have been a better way for you to clear up all the misinformation or for the truth about Jason to get out. All this fighting between PLAY!, Eminence, and VGL surely compromises a lot of people (fans, composers, and performers alike) and certainly doesn't do the image of VGM much good. However, I agree that the actions of Jason have often been unacceptable and am glad to have been made aware of them. It's just a shame that nobody is going to come out of this affair too well.

Just want to say there is no "fight" between Eminence and PLAY!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Quick question about Eminence: Is there any concert DVD to buy? I couldn't find any info about it.

Sorry for the kinda offtopic post.

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There is no concert DVDs out by Eminence at the current time

I was speaking idiomatically.

Just wanna say to Tommy that I thank him for his responses, I wanted to talk to you at the VGL LA Hollywood Bowl meet and greet, but I got shy...

And as someone who has gone to VGL, I can clairify that the majoirity of the show was symphonic, with some rock and synth thrown in there, but at least 85% symphonic.

Also a little note that it is very possible to creat a MGS symphonica arrangement with no synths or electronics, and still be better than Play!'s version. Starting the theme with just strings is like listening to some string quartet piece for a while and its NOT a good way to start a theme like MGS. I;m no arranger, but I listen to enough VGM remixes and other music to know what not to do with certain themes. If Play! had actually did a better job with the arrangments, Ill probnably go despite the dark stuff going behind the curtains. They didn't and that lack of either talent or actual effort proves that its not worht my money or time.

And the way they butchered KH1 and 2 suite? Dear god, they barely did any work, and the cut and past job with March Caprice inserted in the middle was awful, as a huge fan of KH this pisses me off.And Swing De Chocobo is an extended version of the FFX chocobo theme. Original arrangement my foot. The only reason people will go its if they don't get other concerts like VLG there, or they're desperate to hear a live version of their favourite game pieces, which means Play! still has plenty of market sadly. Not to mention they have a trump card called "Square Enix". And we all know how many FF fanboys there are.

Its sad to hear the deciet that went on at Play!, despite temptations to see it (They DO have alot of licence to alot of franchise, my boyfriend was little disappointed when VGL changed the program and Castlevania was cut, and my god if I had heard Akira played SH2...), I rather not support it, and since my boyfriend and his friends, as well as I, are trying to get into the game industry, we at least know what to stay clear of now.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

Its sad to hear the deciet that went on at Play!, despite temptations to see it (They DO have alot of licence to alot of franchise, my boyfriend was little disappointed when VGL changed the program and Castlevania was cut, and my god if I had heard Akira played SH2...), I rather not support it, and since my boyfriend and his friends, as well as I, are trying to get into the game industry, we at least know what to stay clear of now.

Thanks for the support Kairi! Glad ya liked the show. Just to clarify... we haven't cut Castlevania out of our show... we just didn't play it at the Bowl again this year to make room for some of the new stuff like Halo 3, Civilization IV, Space Invaders, LucasArts guys, etc.

We always try to mix it up especially when we return to the same place twice. It's tough cause there is so much great stuff out there! We also didn't play EverQuest II & Beyond Good & Evil at this years Bowl show.

The next couple of shows we're doing in Brazil will have Castlevania.

Thanks again for the kind words and support! Wish you would have come up and said hi. Next time!


Tommy

FELIPE NO

Ah I see, well I doubt we can go to the Brazil ones, maybe the one next time that's in LA will have Castlevania again, or perhaps in a city that close to LA. He also loved the Beyond Good and Evil game, so he was little bummed that it was shifted around as well. But we love the rest of the show, and ending it with Halo 3 with the original composers and guitar performer and the voice of Cortana was awesome. I'm not a Halo fan and even I got a kick out of it.

And having David Hayter introducing the concert was genius. Advantages of a VG show in LA huh?

Thanks for replying!

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

And having David Hayter introducing the concert was genius. Advantages of a VG show in LA huh?

Hahahahahaa!! Yeah!! And the creator of Tron too!!

David Hayter and his wife had such a good time that he recorded the intro of Snake introducing me so we can play it at all our shows!!

He's a super cool guy!!!


Tommy

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Wow, I wasn't aware of all of this and I was quite surprised to learn about all of this on GFF instead of other more "official" sites.

I have to say that I was among the ones who paid 140$ to see the show in Toronto. Not only that, it was an 8-hour drive from my city and I had to stay at a hotel to be able to watch the show. It was quite an expensive trip. And I am surprised to hear that with all this 140$, he wasn't able to pay for the composers plane tickets, they hired a kids choir, they made people pay to have authographs...but I think the worst thing was in fact that crappy Dear Friends CD which was a best off but, with synth....I would have expected an orchestral music CD...oh well...

The show was great (as I like orchestral VGM), I wasn't deceived by it but now that I know all of this, it's kind of upsetting.

So hopefully I'll get my hands on good seats for VGL in Montreal (which makes it only a 2 1/2 hour drive from my city). And from what I read, VGL is more affordable compared to Play!.

So any dates for VGL in Montreal yet?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

Wow, I wasn't aware of all of this and I was quite surprised to learn about all of this on GFF instead of other more "official" sites.

I have to say that I was among the ones who paid 140$ to see the show in Toronto. Not only that, it was an 8-hour drive from my city and I had to stay at a hotel to be able to watch the show. It was quite an expensive trip. And I am surprised to hear that with all this 140$, he wasn't able to pay for the composers plane tickets, they hired a kids choir, they made people pay to have authographs...but I think the worst thing was in fact that crappy Dear Friends CD which was a best off but, with synth....I would have expected an orchestral music CD...oh well...

The show was great (as I like orchestral VGM), I wasn't deceived by it but now that I know all of this, it's kind of upsetting.

So hopefully I'll get my hands on good seats for VGL in Montreal (which makes it only a 2 1/2 hour drive from my city). And from what I read, VGL is more affordable compared to Play!.

So any dates for VGL in Montreal yet?

Hi!,

Our possible date for Montreal is in the fall. We are just figuring out the best venue and location to have the event. What would be your suggestion?

We're also going to do Toronto again in 2007.


Tommy

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Hmm well, the OSM (Montreal Symphonic Orchestra) plays at this place:

http://www.pda.qc.ca/nos-salles/wilfrid-pelletier.prod.en.html

So if you want to go classy, that's the place. Only, it might be expensive...cause there's almost 3000 seats.

This other scene (in the same complex) might be what you need though: http://www.pda.qc.ca/nos-salles/thea...e.prod.en.html (around 1500 seats)

Another suggestion might be this place (though it is less fancy than the previous ones): http://www.theatreoutremont.ca/Outre...vation_en.aspx (Around 500 seats available)

I really don't know what your budget is but if the Montreal Metropolitan Orchestra (not the OSM, it's a smaller orchestra but still well known here) can afford it for 5 concerts a year, I would go with the first or second option.

Feel free to contact me for any questions. I'll gladly help so I can listen to live game music near my city!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?