Free energy, holla (reploid war is over)

Sheesh.

If I said Steorn is shit and no one on planet earth should give them the time of day, would that make you satisfied?

I agree, perputual motion has been worked to death... Science is abused all the time with illegitimate claims... That doesn't mean credible people shouldn't go disprove it. Saying every situation is the same as the last one I'm pretty sure is covered in Aesop's Fables with "cry wolf". The time that you don't check something out is the time that it happens.

I hope that legit scientists and physics experts go debunk this. And I hope you don't go the route of choosing to ignore and piss on things because of past experience regardless of the present.

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It's not that I don't believe scientists shouldn't examine things which do not agree with our current theories, hell if we had done that physics would still be the same it was at the end of the 19th century when "eveything has been figured out, except for some minor details", it's just that they haven't provided anything whatsoever yet. That people even think about giving them any consideration until they provide some evidence is idiotic. It angers me to see that people are willing to consider things for which they'd otherwise ask for proof because of a "press release", a website with essentially nothing on it but a field to enter your email address and an ad anyone could get by forking out cash they got from some gullible investors, along with... with what? They haven't provided anything else! There's that photograph someone posted earlier of the device in question, but all it looks like is some large aluminum frame with various electric/mechanic components anyone could get from their local hardware/electronic/car parts store.

This is what bothers me. Of course if I'm wrong, then please correct me. I hate being wrong, and I'm usually more than willing to admit my mistakes. But first, please point out to me why I should believe anything they say. To me it looks exactly the same as any of those crackpot websites you can find on crank.net, except that those guys are actually more vocal about their stuff. And more likely to already have taken money from gullible investors for their ad, and thus more likely to do so again from other people.

How ya doing, buddy?

Why the hell would anyone place an ad (which is not cheap BTW) bringing their product into question and under scrutiny if there is no legitimate product? That's like Phantom placing an ad in Time saying that they want 12 magazine reviewers to come check out the console at their offices. It maybe bullshit, but you are asking to be called on it in the public arena thereby ruining any future your company may have, especially with investors.

The way to get money off fake stuff is to keep it behind closed doors and have small meetings with gullible investors all the while claiming in small press releases an incredible product (reference again the afforementioned Phantom console). What these guys are doing is the exact opposite. This to me does lend credibility.

We know this much though, either A) they made a mistake in their tests, B) they made a few mistakes in their tests, C) they made alot of mistakes in their tests, D) they are the dumbest-asses ever, E) they actually have some kind of energy producing product. And those answers all lead to the same conclusion of get this crap checked out.

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It's called "calling one's bluff". Advertising costs a lot of money. Even if the product was debunked, the attention the company would get - as a bunch of radicals intent on pioneering weird and interesting technology, would be very valuable to them. If they challenge people to come to them, it makes people like us think about the company and talk about them a lot, their motivations, their other products, everything. We analyse who they are and in so doing acquire a fuller understanding of what they do and what service/products they provide.

For them, that alone could be considered a victory. Now, this device of theirs looks like it utilises gyroscopes in some way. Gyroscopes are known to have superficially baffling properties. It could just be an elaborate trick, since no company with half-decent engineers would believe that a machine could "create" energy... unless those very engineers had worked hard on manufacturing a hoax, in which case it would stand up to scrutiny for a while.

How ya doing, buddy?

I do suppose that's a viable scenario. It still seems a bit ass-backwards to me. Publicity stunt of some kind, this is for sure. As with other fake schemes, they are trying to get public opinion on their side first (claims to solve world problems instead of just info about the device). There is definitely suspicion to be had.

Only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by YeOldeButchere

Cold fusion is one thing. At least it doesn't break fundamental laws of science which have stood for a century and a half, more if you consider that perpetual motion machines have been imagined all the way back in the 13th century and likely before.

Well here's a question. Let's say that humanity (or a more evolved species derived from us) somehow continues to exist for thousands or even tens of thousands of years. In that time span - assuming we remain as intelligent as we are now on average or continue to become more intelligent - do you think that not a single scientific law will be proved false or modified in a significant way? Do you really have that much faith in what we currently think we know?

Personally, I have an open mind and am willing to challenge my understanding of anything. I look at everything I know more so as a logical assumption than as a universal truth. One plus one is two and for me to second-guess this every time I did basic arithmetic would be wasted time, sure. Although I am 99.999999999% sure that 1 + 1 = 2, a part of me still leaves open the possibility that this is false or at least a half-truth of some kind, because I acknowledge the limitations of my brain and I acknowledge my own subjectivity.

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Of course laws will change! That's not something I doubt. Classical mechanics was always thought to be perfect until Einstein showed that what Newton found out is but an approximation of what really happens, but which is incredibly close to what really happens unless we're talking about incredible velocities. That's but one such event, and it will happen again, make no mistake, unless we live in an incredibly boring universe.

What I tend to dislike is laws simply being thrown out the window suddently even if they've stood perfectly well so far, and without any explanation. What these guys are saying is that using magnets, something which has been well understood for a long time, and for which we have laws that especially prohibit any possibility of getting free energy out of a magnetic field, namely one of Maxwell's law which states that the divergence of a magnetic field is always zero, they can suddently invalidate the laws of thermodynamics. It doesn't only have repercussion on energy generation, mind you, if you invalidate thermodynamics, a lot of other sciences will be affected. For example, information theory, since it's inception, has always been related to thermodynamics, and chances are you'd come upon strange results in information theory by allowing something seemingly unrelated to happen in thermodynamics.

If I take the example of cold fusion, this is not something I would have instantly rejected. Cold fusion never completely threw out of the window any basic laws such as thermodynamics; it attempted to explain a phenomenon that was observed, or thought to be observed, so that it would most fit with our current theories. The problem is that according to the scientific method, such hypothesis must be tested, then if found to be wrong, discarded or modified, and if found to be correct, kept and published so that others can improve upon it or spot flaws. Unfortunately, in the case of cold fusion, there might not even have been an unknown phenomenon to begin with, and even worse, the hypothesis made to explain it apparently fit with the results, so it was published. Mass media jumped on the opportunity, and the rest is history. But I'm not entirely sure why people are so keen to point at cold fusion as some sort of disaster. It seems to me as if the scientific method wasn't to blame, and that the scientific community did a fine job spotting the flaws in the theory, which is essentially the whole point. These things happen, but the main difference is that most people usually never learn about it, the would-be theory remains just one more hypothesis that didn't quite make it and is relagated to being one of the many in the history of science.

I have nothing against modifying laws when needed, indeed that's the whole point of science, but I demand strong evidence as to why it should be done. I know better than to file all those that came before me as dimwitted cretins by invalidating their work completely, because I seriously doubt those people where dimwitted cretins. Worse would be proposing my own entirely different theory as to how the universe works, placing myself above a large number of history's greatest. I suppose you could call it humility.

How ya doing, buddy?

Man you guys almost make it sound to me like you don't want them to have discovered this; like the notion of an aspect of science getting shat on by sheer accident is disturbing or makes you uncomfortable. Granted they do have to prove it at some point for it to be totally valid, but it's not like they're already saying that what they think they've discovered is fact although I'm sure they'd like it to be. I personally think they're just as interested in finding out how they're wrong as they are finding out if they're right.

All this nonsense about it being a hoax or a marketing ploy is just ridic. Like the mainstream population gives a shit or is paying attention to this.

Double Post:
I would lol if it turned out that creating energy caused an equal amount of energy to be destroyed. Then the law would be entirely broken and yet it would be sensible.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I brought up the situation of cold-fusion not because it was a great disaster but because it showed that scientists with the best of intentions and the purest of hearts can still make mistakes. There is a saying, that goes along the lines of "Don't count your chickens until they hatch." I think it would be great for the world if these guys were successful. We need to find a clean source of energy more than anything these days, to help ensure our survival as a race. The scientific community wants this so badly that it may be seeing something that isn't really there, in the same way that if there's someone in your life you really miss, you may start to see them all over the place.

Einstein made mistakes too, you know. Noone holds it against him. All of science is based on probabilities. Yeah, there's a tiny chance that if you, let's say, drop an apple, it'll shoot out into space at 7 miles per second. It's just not likely. It's also unlikely for there to be crock of gold at the end of the rainbow.

People who are all into "new" physics are desperately trying to find workable new laws and modifications to incorporate their theories into the same framework as established ones. The trouble is, existing laws are very robust. Einstein knew what he was talking about. He even predicted Dark Energy a long time before it became a fashionable field of research like it is today.

If this device DOES somehow work, it will be due to a subtle as yet unknown effect that does not break any existing laws apart, but perhaps lies beneath them. Energy can't be created or destroyed; if these people are correct, they must be pulling energy from somewhere else. The crux of this problem would be where that "somewhere" is.

There's nowhere I can't reach.