Why not legalize prostitution?

Enter the conservative...

I'm actually finding it tough to object on anything other than morals. I just don't want to live in a place that condones that type of industry. On the other hand, nobody seems to be shoving the stripper way of life down the throats of young girls. Although it's a dramatic leap, widespread legalization of prostitution hopefully wouldn't permeate society anymore than gentlemen clubs do.

I've heard that places with legalized prostitution like Denmark have very impressive stats with regards to STDs, teen pregnancy, and even higher average age of virgins. Better than in comparison with countries that have outlawed it. (can anyone confirm this?)

But I'm still against it. Nyeah nyeah! Whether or not anyone shares my morals or not, I would still push to keep prostitution illegal. Hmm, let's get rid of the strip clubs while we're at it too. MWA HA HA! I honestly feel we'd be better off without those types of things. The world I'm imagining probably isn't as fun, but overall it would be happier one. Hrm, better qualify that last sentence by saying, "...at least in my opinion."

But what's the point? 1. Looks like most of you disagree with me. (D'oh!) 2. The other 49 states are very unlikely to amend their laws. (Hooray!) And 3., prostitutes are still going to work, legal or not, throughout the U.S. (Waah!)

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Oh man. Can you imagine the recruiting pamphlets in high school for the sex ranches? Kind of like how McDonald's has those advertisements for how they make such an awesome career. I'm sure a ton of girls who've just hit 18 would be up for doing it part time.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? I mean it's their own choice if they wanna sell their bodies for a price. I'm totally against the creation of huge sex ranches though and people running a business with it. The money should go to the actual individuals that have to do this shit.

But I really have no idea how legalized prostitution would affect our society good or bad. So I can't fully support it but it's not like I'm yearning for it nor is it of any interest at all for me so I don't really care what happens with it anyways.

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A regulated market is not necessarily going to be any safer. Look at all the toxic shit the US imported from China. It wasn't until recently that regulators and safety inspectors in the US 'caught on'.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Tax the fuck out of it, I say. You want it? You pay for it. How is this a bad thing.

That depends.

It would encourage more street walkers. Employees will want a bigger cut that not being certified by the government would bring. It's not a problem in European countries because they're welfare states and they don't have hard ons for taxing vice. Any more then any other good or service. I see it being a problem in the 'States. No Republican would go out against support for increasing taxes on vice....... at least not publicly. -_^

If you were to run a brothel, with all the vice taxes and government mandated safety programs for your employees it will be expensive for everyone involved. Not to mention the normal payroll/income taxes on top of it. Making it a lot less lucrative then if it was illegal... or legalized but not regulated.

I don't see any benefit socially in vice taxes in this case either, because the government would spent all of it (or more) on regulation and enforcement. Or issues of financial liability that would result. "WHAT?! I GOT A STI FROM A GOVERNMENT REGULATED BROTHEL?!"

That's all. I'm pretty much out of ideas.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Whether women like it or not, sex in general is a commodity. Male, female, whatever - it's commodity. It has been for thousands of years, and will continue to be, illegal or not. Neither you nor anyone else will change this.

I can't disagree that sex is a commodity or even a bodily function. It's status alone as a commodity doesn't mean it should be legalized though. Uranium is a commodity, but does that mean we shouldn't prohibit the sale of it? There's too many issues of liability, so it's easier to criminalize it.

On the other hand if the government gets away with taxing bodily functions then the sky is the limit. It won't be long before we see fart taxes to combat global warming.... uhh too late?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Could you explain how you went from selling sex to Monsato and agriculture? I mean, I THINK I see the point you're trying to make, but from my perspective, you're so off base with this one. =/

Probably.

I don't just want to give anybody, especially not some biotech corp. any more
leeway into messing with my man essence. (or DNA) I'm not comfortable with how many legal rights and patents they have already. There's too many unintended consequences that could result if sex were thrown into the public domain.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

What's the crime there?

Soliciting a hooker is a misdemeanor. It's likely that all that would be handed out is a fine and possibly some community service. That's assuming that the assistant DA or judge on your case is not a feminist or social conservative. Then you're screwed, and I agree with what you said about putting horny people in jail. Barring that it's just another nominal fee on the "service".

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Do you know how many women are in the sex industry unwillingly these days?

I doubt there's a lot of sex slavery in the US. The Feds are pretty good at cracking down on that sort of thing.

Care to elaborate?

Originally Posted by Grail

To be honest, what would be the big difference between legalizing prostitution, and oh, let's say building an amusement park?

It's easy to regulate static locations. It's much harder to regulate moving people with their traveling "rides" and "amusements".

I was speaking idiomatically.

You do all realise Watts is trolling you, right? No one actually believes this sort of idiocy. Messing with man essence? He's doing Dr. Strangelove. He knows as well as anyone that the only real objection to this concept is the moral one. Holland has much lower STD rates than the US, lower sex crime rate, etc. It's all there for anyone who takes the time to look at the statistics. They can regulate porn stars for disease, they can regulate prostitutes very, very easily. And patenting sex? Come on, that idea is so fucking infantile it can't be anything but baiting. This is why he got the joke nom for best debater. I mean, harder to regulate moving people with rides and amusements? They call that a circus. And they do it all the time. Why are we even giving him the time of day? Either he's trolling or he's so stupid he isn't worth it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

But I'm still against it. Nyeah nyeah! Whether or not anyone shares my morals or not, I would still push to keep prostitution illegal. Hmm, let's get rid of the strip clubs while we're at it too. MWA HA HA! I honestly feel we'd be better off without those types of things. The world I'm imagining probably isn't as fun, but overall it would be happier one. Hrm, better qualify that last sentence by saying, "...at least in my opinion."

You know, I never really understood why anyone went to strip clubs. I mean seriously... If I wanted to look at boobs that I can't touch, I have the internet.

On a more related note, if Prostitution was legal, I'd imagine it would cost strip clubs alot of customers since they could go pay to have sex rather then pay to watch someone dance naked.

FELIPE NO

As it stands now, you have tons of girls being forced into prostitution through rather illicit means. They are forced into heroine addictions, or beat up and such. Why do they need to be forced? My line of thinking is that the only thing stopping half those 'forced prostitutes' is the fact that it's illegal. It's like one of my friends. He'd be perfectly willing to do certain drugs if it weren't for the fact that they were illegal. So if you legalize prostitution, pimps wouldn't need to force them to do it, and in turn you'd have alot less poorly treated prostitutes. That seems like a benefit of legalized prostitution.

Legalizing it would also mean that the women could actually make a career out of it. With it being legal, they would for sure get more customers. They would be taxed for the income I assume, but for things like applying for an apartment, or possibly getting another job and stuff, they can say 'oh I make this much a year' or something like that. I guess they'd have something to put on their resume. 'Customer Service Experience'.

Despite my moral objections, I can see a lot of positive outcomes to legalizing prostitution.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I think it's a good thing that prostitution is legal here (in Germany), within limitations (e.g. no pimps, the necessity of being registered, etc.). While it is not a profession I would choose, I see no reason why others should not be allowed to choose it, as it is not hurting anyone. Why should we not be able to decide over our own bodies?

On the contrary, a legal, registered form of prostitution reduces the risks that go with it, and limits the demand for an importation and abuse of illegal immigrants (although it is still happening here, sadly).

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Enter the conservative...

I'm actually finding it tough to object on anything other than morals. I just don't want to live in a place that condones that type of industry.

That could be said of anything that any group of people happen to not like.

There are a lot of things that happen in this country which I (and many others) don't like, and don't feel like putting up with. But we do. (creationism, for one)

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On the other hand, nobody seems to be shoving the stripper way of life down the throats of young girls. Although it's a dramatic leap, widespread legalization of prostitution hopefully wouldn't permeate society anymore than gentlemen clubs do.

Stripping and prostitution aren't the same thing. You know this, right? There's no sex in the champagne room.

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I've heard that places with legalized prostitution like Denmark have very impressive stats with regards to STDs, teen pregnancy, and even higher average age of virgins. Better than in comparison with countries that have outlawed it. (can anyone confirm this?)

Deni did.

The problem here is that the Americans regard sex as this awful, dirty, disgusting act.

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But I'm still against it. Nyeah nyeah!

Yes, thats the point here. "It seems that it works elsewhere, and things run smoother when sex becomes an industry that isn't black-market. The facts are there! But n'yah n'yah, I don't like it, therefore it should remain outlawed!"

It's a child's argument.

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Whether or not anyone shares my morals or not, I would still push to keep prostitution illegal. Hmm, let's get rid of the strip clubs while we're at it too. MWA HA HA! I honestly feel we'd be better off without those types of things. The world I'm imagining probably isn't as fun, but overall it would be happier one. Hrm, better qualify that last sentence by saying, "...at least in my opinion."

Yes. We get it. You don't like it. Therefore, it should be illegal.

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But what's the point? 1. Looks like most of you disagree with me. (D'oh!) 2. The other 49 states are very unlikely to amend their laws. (Hooray!) And 3., prostitutes are still going to work, legal or not, throughout the U.S. (Waah!)

Yes, let's continue to keep people getting abused, addicted, and selling themselves in a dangerous environment needlessly! Just because you don't like the industry.

You see, in this great country of the US of A, we're supposed to have some freedom, provided we hurt no one. We're supposed to have choice. We're supposed to be able to decide for ourselves what is good for us. We're adults. We don't want other peoples' opinions to reign over our own lives. That's freedom.

You chose to not involve yourself in the industry, as I am sure millions would also do.

But for those who want to be able to buy some pussy, cock, tits or ass in a legal, clean, safe, and legit way should also have a choice.

Besides. I don't want ANYONE (including Senators) in MY bedroom telling me what I can and can not do. If two consenting adults want to exchange money or goods for some sexual favors, who the hell can tell them they can't do that.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Here's an interesting thought on the subject. Prostitution is illegal, but it's legal to be a member of hate spreading groups like the KKK or Westburo Baptists because of Freedom of speech. So... according to our government Prostitution is more evil then the KKK. That's some backwards morality there...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

Here's an interesting thought on the subject. Prostitution is illegal, but it's legal to be a member of hate spreading groups like the KKK or Westburo Baptists because of Freedom of speech. So... according to our government Prostitution is more evil then the KKK. That's some backwards morality there...

Well, that's the whole first amendment right there. Freedom of speech and Freedom of group orginization or some shit like that.

Though, honestly, if a prostitution union popped up, that would be interesting to see.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well I'm glad at least one person was offended by me. I'll try harder. I thought "nyeah nyeah" was a dead give away that I wasn't being all that serious. Oh well.

Religious argument: Is anybody really going to be shocked that most of the major religions find prostitution to be a deplorable act? Moving on...

Moral argument: In general I'm against anything I wouldn't want my kids (if I had any) to be a part of. Prostitution, casual sex, gangs, recreational drug use, violence, etc, etc, etc. Yeah, I'm really that boring and close minded. I don't even want to see this stuff advertised or accepted by society in general. So all I do is continue to vote for legislation that suits me. If I'm overruled by the majority I'll learn to deal with it. I'm not going to pack my bags and head overseas in disgust. Nyeah nyeah!

I strongly disagree that people should be allowed to do any old thing they want within the confines of their private lives. Drug abuse affects more than just the one person who does it. Sexual indecency has an emotional impact that goes beyond just the two people involved. It may also have a medical impact that can be so widespread it's frightening. The negative impact these things have on society is too much (imho) to justify the desired rights of the individual. And where do you draw the line? No large group of people is ever going to agree on whether or not a 25 year old can legally have a sexual relationship with a 17 year old. Whichever side you are in favor of, there is going to be a split between people who are comfortable and people who aren't with, oh...let's say a kindergarten teacher who paid her way through college by being a prostitute. If prostitution is legal, who's to say that's unacceptable? How do people in Vegas deal with these issues? :\

But like the situation in the U.S. is really gonna change any time soon. Yay for me!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Well I'm glad at least one person was offended by me. I'll try harder. I thought "nyeah nyeah" was a dead give away that I wasn't being all that serious. Oh well.

I'm not offended by you. I just think your argument is silly.

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Religious argument: Is anybody really going to be shocked that most of the major religions find prostitution to be a deplorable act? Moving on...

"Moving on" after you mention it? That's funny.

No one should really give a flying fuck what the religious think of this. They can practice whatever religion they want to in the privacy of their homes or in congregations.

Just like people can have sex in their homes and in orgies. Who the hell cares.

You don't like it? Don't do it. (But we totally know the religious do it anyways. =p)

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Moral argument: In general I'm against anything I wouldn't want my kids (if I had any) to be a part of. Prostitution, casual sex, gangs, recreational drug use, violence, etc, etc, etc. Yeah, I'm really that boring and close minded. I don't even want to see this stuff advertised or accepted by society in general. So all I do is continue to vote for legislation that suits me. If I'm overruled by the majority I'll learn to deal with it. I'm not going to pack my bags and head overseas in disgust. Nyeah nyeah!

You chose to think prostitution is as bad as gang violence and street crime, I recommend you look into what happens to present prostitutes who work illegally on the street. It may sadden you.

You have your own moral compass. That's great. I'm glad you've actually considered what "right" and "wrong" mean, as most people don't usually consider even thinking about it, and just eat up whatever shit is fed to them.

At the same time, your moral compass is not everyone else's. I see what you're saying - you'd personally not chose to see this happen. But what interests me most is that you ignore the facts and continue to shake your head saying "I don't like it, so I won't go for it."

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I strongly disagree that people should be allowed to do any old thing they want within the confines of their private lives. Drug abuse affects more than just the one person who does it.

But it's their choice to do it. Yes, addiction is a horrific thing. But yet, some people chose to do it, knowing the consequences.

I got proper education regarding drugs and addiction in school.

Hell, people do a LOT of stupid shit knowing the consequences.

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Sexual indecency has an emotional impact that goes beyond just the two people involved. It may also have a medical impact that can be so widespread it's frightening.

Yea, medical impact. That's kind of my argument. Thanks for giving that one to me.

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The negative impact these things have on society is too much (imho) to justify the desired rights of the individual. And where do you draw the line?

You draw the line when you start telling a society what is right and what is wrong, and making adult decisions for them.

You have absolutely no right to tell me that I can't tie up my CONSENTING husband and shove a dildo up his ass.

I don't tell you what to do - why do you think you have the right to tell me what to do? (Not you or I personally, you know what I mean)

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No large group of people is ever going to agree on whether or not a 25 year old can legally have a sexual relationship with a 17 year old. Whichever side you are in favor of, there is going to be a split between people who are comfortable and people who aren't with, oh...let's say a kindergarten teacher who paid her way through college by being a prostitute. If prostitution is legal, who's to say that's unacceptable? How do people in Vegas deal with these issues? :\

Er. Who said anything about underage children working in legal prostitution?

See, you keep arguing these points, but you're really making my case FOR me.

In the present, illegal system of prostitution, there are PLENTY of underage people working as little workhorses, putting out for the masses. If the industry was regulated, that shit wouldn't happen.

As it stands, since the industry is widely illegal and unchecked, they can do pretty much whatever the hell they want.

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But like the situation in the U.S. is really gonna change any time soon. Yay for me!

That's why it's totally illegal in Nevada, right?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I know for a fact you are just trolling this entire thread, and yes, I know I am falling for this sad troll attempt, but it's all good in my book.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Whichever side you are in favor of, there is going to be a split between people who are comfortable and people who aren't with, oh...let's say a kindergarten teacher who paid her way through college by being a prostitute. If prostitution is legal, who's to say that's unacceptable? How do people in Vegas deal with these issues? :\

I'll tell you exactly how Vegas deals with these issues.


THEY AREN'T UPTIGHT PRICKS.

Now just hear me out on this one. Let's take your kindergarten teacher for example. What if, back when you were that age, she was the BEST damn teacher you had. Was kind, understanding, and was quite knowledgeable and helped you understand the world better. In your eyes to this day she was a damn good teacher, and a damn good citizen, nothing about her you could fault her for...

Three days from now you find out that she was a legal prostitute and used that money to become a teacher.

Now you are met with a options. Either you can look at her as that awesome teacher, who had a private life before becoming a teacher and did things her way to become what she wanted to be. Or, you can look at her in utter disgust and brand her as a whore, and a no good scum sucking waste of life.

People in Vegas, apparently, mostly choose option one. While religious fanatics, and downright assholes who live in Vegas typically choose el numero dos.

I will say that yes, the actions and choices we make in life define us as human beings. But you also have to remember that applies to people you care for and love as well. For example, what if your boyfriend, or girlfriend, back in highschool/college, happend to just be EXACTLY like those people that bullied you, or you happend to bully around. If they aren't today, are you going to hold it against them that they were back then?

And that is the kind of mentallity I think Vegas is running. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas after all.

FELIPE NO

I thought prostitution is not actually legal within city confines of Vegas. I am pretty sure that's what a cop told me when I was there, but I see no such documentation. Turns out you can't street walk in Vegas - you just go to a brothel and pay a pretty dime for some company.

You all just yell at me all you like for this link to the wiki on Hoes in Nevada, but at least you may get a little educated.

I myself did not know brothels are legal in Rhode Island! I think I know where I will be moving in the future!

Which means two states actually allow prostitution! Just not in street-walker style in both Nevada AND Rhode Island.

This means that you can't walk the streets as a hoe - you actually have to take up a company to work for. Essentially, contractors for a brothel. Which is a really neat concept, if you ask me.

Lastly, I notice that a Baptist pastor from Reno leads the Nevada Brothel Owners' Association. Isn't that dandy? <3

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

No one should really give a flying fuck what the religious think of this. They can practice whatever religion they want to in the privacy of their homes or in congregations.

You see, that's something I always wondered about America. How officially detached from religious morals is it actually ? I mean, you do have the "Under God" thing and the "In God we Trust" on your money ...

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Originally Posted by niki

You see, that's something I always wondered about America. How officially detached from religious morals is it actually ? I mean, you do have the "Under God" thing and the "In God we Trust" on your money ...

Well, theoretically, church and state should be separate. But that's not technically in the Constitution, but a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to some Baptists. He actually ties the Constitution's First Amendment to the noted "separation of church and state" making it clear (to me) that there should be a divide.

These days, the interpretation and vigor faced for the "god" in government depends on where you live, I guess. We're a big, big nation with lots of local and regional cultures. Some people want a god to be involved, some don't.

Massachusetts? We don't generally have problems with more.... "progressive" ideas like gay marriage and anti-gun laws or whatever. We're pretty "godless" and reasonably "liberal" about our national views.

Texas? Fat chance of seeing any homofags getting married out there anytime soon, or possibly getting rid of their guns.

As for the money bit - we can thank the Civil War and the religiously needy during that horrific time. War does crazy shit to people, I guess. In times of need, turn to the most convenient god...? After that business, I suppose it sounded good, and they left it.

Though I am sure Styphon or someone else can recount history more accurately than I can.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, the case of marriage is a bit special, since it has a religious origin. I think we should cancel civil marriage altogether and replace it with the kind of contracts we have here in France that is accessible to anyone and basically gives you the same rights civil marriage does.

Anyway, separation of church and state is absolute here in France. It can't really be argued that Christian morals influenced even the raise of democracy and the country as a whole still today, though.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Germany doesn't have an official separation of church and state. Nevertheless, laws about sexual and sexuality issues appear to be more liberal than they are in the U.S.. It's not just religion itself, in the sense of scripture, that comes into it, but the way it is practiced and perceived. These two factors are linked to social circumstances.

For example, the whole frontier situation influenced the strongly individualistic point of view many Americans have ("you can do anything if you just try hard enough", "if people are poor, it's their fault"). It also influenced the emphasis placed on religion as a means of social coherence, which was necessary in a group of "pioneers", and the particular prevalence of certain aspects of protestantism ("if you are gay, you are choosing to be gay, so you can choose not to be, or not to excercise it" - see the similarities?).

So a lot of that historical baggage has remained and was influential in the way American religion, specifically, developed. What has all this got to do with the thread? Well, if we're disregarding religion, we are making it a bit too easy for ourselves. I'm the first person to agree that it SHOULDN'T come into the equation, but unfortunately, it does. People are religious. This influences their opinion.

So, from a point of view that considers social morality, the legalisation of prostitution may not be right for the USA, simply because most people might disagree with it (a social survey on this could be interesting).

Then again, of course practical and economic consequences should be considered as well, and I'll pass on that, simply because I don't know enough about it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Massachusetts? We don't generally have problems with more.... "progressive" ideas like gay marriage and anti-gun laws or whatever. We're pretty "godless" and reasonably "liberal" about our national views.

Texas? Fat chance of seeing any homofags getting married out there anytime soon, or possibly getting rid of their guns.

I would like to think that the most progressive stance that would allow maximum liberties would be to allow both gay marriage and gun rights.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Was Watts really saying that people would start patenting tricks?

I don't like the sentiment that the sex industry could be taxed as a net positive, because it's something that only beurocrats should consider. It also allows moral crusaders the opportunity to spin legalisation as a move for Big Government to rake in the cash off of our collective sin, which works in too many circles.

It's enough that two consenting adults can exchange whatever they want between each other without having to worry about police power. Any other positives are just icing on the cake.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

As for the money bit - we can thank the Civil War and the religiously needy during that horrific time. War does crazy shit to people, I guess. In times of need, turn to the most convenient god...? After that business, I suppose it sounded good, and they left it.

Cold war.

FELIPE NO

I must admit I'm coming around a bit on this issue. But if it were on a ballot in my state I'd still vote 'no'. I know the situation is bad, not unlike recreational drug industry. Legalizing these things would certainly repair a great deal of pain and suffering that occurs in these trades. But it would also expose a greater number of people to different tragedies. Which is the worse of two evils? I'm of the frame of mind that people would be better off if they were restricted from certain harmful things in life. Of course no two people will agree on what those things are. You get "uptight pricks" like me on one end of the spectrum and libertarians on the other who feel governments should stay out of people's business. I'm fully aware that my views are restrictive, but from my point of view I just don't like seeing people involved in anything harmful. And while I'm not going to hit the streets and force everyone to adhere to my ideals; I will express myself to friends, family, and even in an open discussion on the internet.

Anybody see Chasing Amy? I'm the kind of guy who can forgive people for the transgressions of their past. At the same time I wish they wouldn't have done those things in the first place.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

I'm of the frame of mind that people would be better off if they were restricted from certain harmful things in life. Of course no two people will agree on what those things are. You get "uptight pricks" like me on one end of the spectrum and libertarians on the other who feel governments should stay out of people's business. I'm fully aware that my views are restrictive, but from my point of view I just don't like seeing people involved in anything harmful.

How is sex harmful?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

At it's worst, sex can be forced upon people against their will.

With regards to consenting adults having sex; I still think it can be and has been harmful to society. Promiscuity has led to the spread of disease. Adultery has made a tremendous amount of people utterly miserable, enraged, and/or depressed. There is a great deal of women who have fallen into the trap of basing their self-esteem around sexual encounters. Fornication has provided a boon of unwanted and uncared for children. This is the most harmful aspect in my opinion. And even if I set my religious views aside, as a human being I feel that sex without love cheapens and demeans the act. Prostitution figures heavily into most of what I just mentioned.

There's nowhere I can't reach.