Tales of Legendia.

Originally Posted by yangxu

That works, though in Rebirth, I tend to rely on items a lot more often than spells, which decreases the grade rating at the end of each battle, oh well... =/

The Force Cube is a major change to the traditional Tales battle system, I like the idea, too. The fact that you can pull out a skill with an ougi in consecutive manner is very satifying... the only problem with this is the damage decreases as the quadrants in the Force Cube begin to drain, but thanks to the new trilinear system, you can switch positions freely to restore the lost forces while the AIs help you defend for the time being.

Yeah, it's rather confusing since they messed around with the healing items in Rebirth... I don't know if Namco wanted to make the game harder or what, but whatever the reason is, changing something like that is somewhat unnecessary... If I need to heal outside the battle, I usually turn to cookings since many recipes have multiple healing effects.

I didn't use that many items at all in Rebirth, but that's only because I seriously overleveled before every new dungeon/city/boss battle. And I seriously mean a good 5 levels over everytime, so that might explain it (level 70 and everything). Cooking was really helpful toward the end. The toppings system was pretty cool too.

And it's strange, but I absolutely never used Annie in battles. Her healing circles really did nothing for me so I stook to really strong HP Regeneration. At any rate, my party was almost always composed of Veigue, Tytree, Mao and Eugene (swapped in and out with Hilda). Tytree used to start losing mad health at one point, so I just gave him a Black Onyx and he was fine since.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Rocca

I didn't use that many items at all in Rebirth, but that's only because I seriously overleveled before every new dungeon/city/boss battle. And I seriously mean a good 5 levels over everytime, so that might explain it (level 70 and everything). Cooking was really helpful toward the end. The toppings system was pretty cool too.

And it's strange, but I absolutely never used Annie in battles. Her healing circles really did nothing for me so I stook to really strong HP Regeneration. At any rate, my party was almost always composed of Veigue, Tytree, Mao and Eugene (swapped in and out with Hilda). Tytree used to start losing mad health at one point, so I just gave him a Black Onyx and he was fine since.

Wow... Level 70... ever since I got pawned by the enemies under the temple where Shaorin resides, I started using holy bottles like mad, it's good for avoiding random battles and speeding the story up a bit, but of coures, the downside would be a severely underleveled team taking on a boss fight more than I could handle. Fortunately the final boss wasn't too hard (I had a much much harder time trying to take down the four stars near the entrance of the Beast Mountains than trying to kill the final boss).

The only reason I use Annie is because she has a strong hi-ougi with Eugene, useful during boss fights... other than that, she's pretty useless. And dammit, I can't accept the fact that Mao is a boy @#$@%^@#$.... whoever chose his voice actress is a evil evil man.... :biggrin: Tytree's position is practically reserved in my party because he could really keep the enemy busy with his combos.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I never used Mao and Tytree because... I don't know why. I generally like to keep a party of "normal" people and those two didn't fit that description.

So Veigue, Eugene, Annie and Hilda the whole game.

How ya doing, buddy?

I feel bad that this is the Legendia thread and we're only talking about Rebirth (not our fault its great).

At the current moment, I'm in the midst of finishing Chloé's Character Quests and one of my characters died for the first time in the entire game. Field of Effect monsters seem to be popping up everywhere now. I'll try and finish Chloe's quest by Sunday evening.

Originally Posted by yangxu

The only reason I use Annie is because she has a strong hi-ougi with Eugene, useful during boss fights... other than that, she's pretty useless. And dammit, I can't accept the fact that Mao is a boy @#$@%^@#$.... whoever chose his voice actress is a evil evil man.... :biggrin: Tytree's position is practically reserved in my party because he could really keep the enemy busy with his combos.

Would that be Shouha Rekkousen? If so, the one where Eugene goes all haste-mode and stabs the foe 30 times is wicked. It's my favorite along with Mao and Tytree's team up, but it's the one I pulled off the least (like four of five times). And you're damn right Tytree should be reserved because he is awesome. His end battle quotes are hilarious.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Vkamicht

I never used Mao and Tytree because... I don't know why. I generally like to keep a party of "normal" people and those two didn't fit that description.

So Veigue, Eugene, Annie and Hilda the whole game.

Wow, really? Some of Mao's move like Shadow Cross are awesome (although I think Hilda can pull it off too). Tytree has some seriously low health, but his moves rack up the combo meter like crazy. Worth a shot!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Vkamicht

I never used Mao and Tytree because... I don't know why. I generally like to keep a party of "normal" people and those two didn't fit that description.

So Veigue, Eugene, Annie and Hilda the whole game.

Haha, you know, every one of them went

Spoiler:

berserk

at a certain point during the game, so none of them is normal in that sense... But I do know what you mean.

Originally Posted by Rocca

At the current moment, I'm in the midst of finishing Chloé's Character Quests and one of my characters died for the first time in the entire game. Field of Effect monsters seem to be popping up everywhere now. I'll try and finish Chloe's quest by Sunday evening.

What levels are your characters at? If you trained like you did in Rebirth, I'm sure your characters can take on the arena battles easily now (fighter class, at least). The rewards are pretty good, though some battles are REALLY hard...

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Hey I didn't expect to meet so many other Tales fans here.

First of all... STOP BASHING NAMCO. They didn't cut Character Quest voices on purpose; they did not cut to save money. There's a Q&A thread about the cuts in the official TOL forums.

You'd have to have high expectations to not agree that the localization is good. The first half is amazingly well done (good voices!), while the second half is a bit disappointing with no voices. Namco was pressed for time, and the decision to cut out CQ voices was made when TOL was still unreleased in Japan. If you hear "Character Quests", you would think it's just a sidequest, but... oops. I do say that they should have done a bit more research before cutting, but mistakes are for learning.

I don't mind if people don't like the game, but bashing Namco because of the cuts ticks me off. They really spent a lot of effort on Legendia, I can tell, and if we encourage them (give suggestions rather than complain and whine) we may get Tales of the Abyss. Calling their current efforts cheap may make the company think we're too demanding of a series, and they obviously won't pour tons of money into a series that hasn't sold well here in the past.

The Tales of Phantasia localization is something to be ashamed of, though. There's another thread about it so I won't go into it.

Ahem. Anyway, Tales of Rebirth. ^_^ Cool game, but the difficulty is quite high, mainly because healing is so limited. The Duel the Sun extension is cool, but the requirements to pull it off are a bit too high. Two controllers?

FELIPE NO

glad i got this game, it's so cute! the music is nice too...
the plot's interesting thus far (i'm maybe 25% way thru the game...^^;

i do wish that tales of rebirth and tales of abyss will be released in the US tho...really wanna play both of those...

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by yangxu

What levels are your characters at? If you trained like you did in Rebirth, I'm sure your characters can take on the arena battles easily now (fighter class, at least). The rewards are pretty good, though some battles are REALLY hard...

Everyone save Grune are at level 71. There's a Duct in the South East regions of the Quiet Lands that takes you to a remote island with Gentleman monsters. They're ridiculously weak and easy, so comboing them is very simple. If you can combo properly, they dish out +2 Grade and 2000 EXP minimum every time.

By the way, what's everyone's Max Combo in Legendia? I only managed 253 hits and that's without a Climax Mode. Kinda sucky, I've always done much higher in the other Tales games.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Rocca

By the way, what's everyone's Max Combo in Legendia? I only managed 253 hits and that's without a Climax Mode. Kinda sucky, I've always done much higher in the other Tales games.

999... it's extremely easy once you know how to do it. Chloe and Senel both have a multi hitting attack, control one and set the other's skill to L2/R2. Tell them to use it, and before it ends, use yours, just keep spamming L2 also so the computer doesn't go off and do something else. If the enemy has enough HP you can get to 999 hits.

Oh, and there's a video of someone doing it on that YouTube place.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Vkamicht

999... it's extremely easy once you know how to do it. Chloe and Senel both have a multi hitting attack, control one and set the other's skill to L2/R2. Tell them to use it, and before it ends, use yours, just keep spamming L2 also so the computer doesn't go off and do something else. If the enemy has enough HP you can get to 999 hits.

Oh, and there's a video of someone doing it on that YouTube place.

Oh, I know the technique, I've just always been too lazy to set everyone to stand away while comboing and try to max out my efforts with a normal party. Swallow Storm and Sword Rain: Omega are the best bets to reach 999. I forget whether the better method is to unequip Senel and Chloe's best weapons or to set the game on hard and use an All-Divide, but either strategy should lengthen the battles.

I reached 1'000+ in Symphonia thanks to Photon and a couple other tricks.

About YouTube: That place is spawning quite a huge list of Tales fan films and performances. It's kind of nice to see so many people uploading stuff there. So far, it's the best alternative to Holystar's RPG Media Files.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Rocca

About YouTube: That place is spawning quite a huge list of Tales fan films and performances. It's kind of nice to see so many people uploading stuff there. So far, it's the best alternative to Holystar's RPG Media Files.

On the other hand, there have been reports of people uploading movies taken from Holystar's webpage and crediting themselves for it. That's to be expected, I guess...

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Dopple

You'd have to have high expectations to not agree that the localization is good. The first half is amazingly well done (good voices!), while the second half is a bit disappointing with no voices. Namco was pressed for time, and the decision to cut out CQ voices was made when TOL was still unreleased in Japan. If you hear "Character Quests", you would think it's just a sidequest, but... oops. I do say that they should have done a bit more research before cutting, but mistakes are for learning.

I don't mind if people don't like the game, but bashing Namco because of the cuts ticks me off. They really spent a lot of effort on Legendia, I can tell, and if we encourage them (give suggestions rather than complain and whine) we may get Tales of the Abyss. Calling their current efforts cheap may make the company think we're too demanding of a series, and they obviously won't pour tons of money into a series that hasn't sold well here in the past.

Do you mind giving me the link to their official forum? I can't seem to find it on the website... =/

For now, I'll respond based on what you wrote, forgive me if I misunderstood something.

How are they pressed for time to make a decision to cut out the English version's CQ voices when the Japanese version hasn't even released? If Legendia turns out to have a crappy sales in Japan, I doubt they'll even bother to release it here.

A large coporation like Namco should know what's appreciated by gamers and what's not, not to mention that they treat gamers in two different countries differently. If they want to have good sales, if they want positive comments instead of complaints, then they should at least try to keep things they can keep from the Japanese version. Instead of removing the intro's theme song and recomposing a totally new instrumental track just to make the game feel more "mainstream", they could focus on more voice acting. They could even leave the Japanese voice track on without any English dub and I bet the game will sell as well as it did as the current half-voiced-game. When they have spent so much effort on this game, I don't think there's no reason to go an extra step and finish something that's supposed to be there.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Rocca

Everyone save Grune are at level 71. There's a Duct in the South East regions of the Quiet Lands that takes you to a remote island with Gentleman monsters. They're ridiculously weak and easy, so comboing them is very simple. If you can combo properly, they dish out +2 Grade and 2000 EXP minimum every time.

Ahh... I haven't bothered visiting the Quiet Lands ever since the main quest's done. Thanks for the tip Rocca... I remember fighting Gentlemen back in Gnome's cave in Eternia, I couldn't stop to give it a O__o expression when I first saw them...

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Vkamicht

On the other hand, there have been reports of people uploading movies taken from Holystar's webpage and crediting themselves for it. That's to be expected, I guess...

Yeah...the Rebirth hi-ougi exhibitions are a clear example of someone completely ripping off Holystar. I'm just glad somoene didn't entirely copy and paste his archive to YouTube.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by yangxu

Do you mind giving me the link to their official forum? I can't seem to find it on the website... =/

http://tales.namco.com/forums

The topic in particular is here

The part of his post in regards to CQ.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Critter

"WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY WOULD YOU IDIOTS DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT?"

It's not because we enjoy it.

The Tales series has a solid track record in Japan. Legendia had somewhere around twice the amount of voiceover of previous installments, which you can do when you have evidence that it will pay off.

Tales in the US, though, has a somewhat spotty record. Symphonia did really well, but Destiny I and II didn't. Legendia was developed for PS2, a platform that has its share of RPGs, and in the US it is the first PS2 Tales game. (I don't want to get into a platform battle here. It is what it is.)

There were a lot of unknowns around how Legendia would do here, which meant that we couldn't justify the jump in voiceover quantity. Cuts were on the table from day one.

WHY THE CHARACTER QUESTS?

The fact that cuts were made was not my call. Something was going to get cut regardless of what I thought. In the end, though, what got cut...yeah, that was my call.

The Japanese version was still in development when we first started talking about localizing Legendia for the US. The decision of what to cut had to be made early on, so I couldn't play through the entire game and see exactly what they were. My understanding here then, was that the CQ were side quests, just addition content for the people who want to know more about the characters that would be like an unlocked start menu item once you cleared the "real" game.

So the fact that there was a lot of voicework devoted to side quests made that section especially vulnerable.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by yangxu

Do you mind giving me the link to their official forum? I can't seem to find it on the website... =/

A large coporation like Namco should know what's appreciated by gamers and what's not, not to mention that they treat gamers in two different countries differently. If they want to have good sales, if they want positive comments instead of complaints, then they should at least try to keep things they can keep from the Japanese version. Instead of removing the intro's theme song and recomposing a totally new instrumental track just to make the game feel more "mainstream", they could focus on more voice acting. They could even leave the Japanese voice track on without any English dub and I bet the game will sell as well as it did as the current half-voiced-game. When they have spent so much effort on this game, I don't think there's no reason to go an extra step and finish something that's supposed to be there.

Double Post:


Ahh... I haven't bothered visiting the Quiet Lands ever since the main quest's done. Thanks for the tip Rocca... I remember fighting Gentlemen back in Gnome's cave in Eternia, I couldn't stop to give it a O__o expression when I first saw them...

Regarding Legendia's cut of English voices: I guess it all boils down to time and money. Even though Legendia and Abyss were made by two entirely different teams, that does sound like a lot of work. In the beginning, there was even talk of each character in Legendia having their own special hi-ougi, but the idea was canned once the Japanese launch was near. I think Holystar still has a .rar file of the canned hi-ougi voices.

It doesn't bother me all that much that the voices were omitted after the Main Quest. If anything, I'm glad they stopped it there instead of mid-way in either the Main or Character Quests. Speaking of Japanese tracks, you reminded me one of the reasons why I loved Destiny on the PSX for so much; how they kept all the original japanese voices during battles. That was truly cool, albeit lazy, but I'm 100% sure I would have preferred those voices instead of lame English dubs.

I think it would be nice, granted developers had the disc space, to always include Japanese and English voices. Capcom is notorious for this in its Onimusha series, Shin Onimusha JAP is entirely dubbed and subbed in English or Japanese. It's why I imported it instead of waiting for the American release this Spring. ;D

Hah, the Gentleman do give a "wtf" moment, and even though their attacks are really annoying, they do no damage and are clearly there for pure combo purposes.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Critter

The Japanese version was still in development when we first started talking about localizing Legendia for the US. The decision of what to cut had to be made early on, so I couldn't play through the entire game and see exactly what they were. My understanding here then, was that the CQ were side quests, just addition content for the people who want to know more about the characters that would be like an unlocked start menu item once you cleared the "real" game.

So the fact that there was a lot of voicework devoted to side quests made that section especially vulnerable.

Well said. Personally, I think it's much smarter to have cut the Character Quest voices than anything, since it's unlikely that as many people who finished Legendia's Main Quest would still continue. At any rate, it doesn't bother me all that much, and if it bothers some, they could always just import the Japanese or Asian version to see full voices (granted you understand Japanese).

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Rocca

In the beginning, there was even talk of each character in Legendia having their own special hi-ougi, but the idea was canned once the Japanese launch was near. I think Holystar still has a .rar file of the canned hi-ougi voices.

Actually something interesting about this, apparently the producer for the original game said that the extras were cut out of development to make sure the game made it to America on time.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Vkamicht

Actually something interesting about this, apparently the producer for the original game said that the extras were cut out of development to make sure the game made it to America on time.

Hah, so any or all cuts would seem to be linked to deadlines. That's not so bad, I guess.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The problem with cutting CQ's voices is, people see CQ as sidequests, so it doesn't matter if there are voices in there or not... but the fact is, CQ contains another huge portion of the game's story (unlike sidequests from Symphonia or Phantasia) that goes on for a good 15 hours...

The way I see this is that it all goes back to the words "Character Quest", if they weren't there, or if the whole chapter separation screen was never there, perhaps the whole game would be dubbed. Rebirth had a similar trend as far as how the story's told,

Spoiler:

you beat the "final boss" Beast King that planned to elimiate the Huma race after about 20 hours, but you get the true boss much later.

If the development team puts the first ending theme and staff scroll there and classifies the next part into something like CQ, I bet when Rebirth is localized, the second half of the game will be unvoiced for that reason.

Originally Posted by Vkamicht

Actually something interesting about this, apparently the producer for the original game said that the extras were cut out of development to make sure the game made it to America on time.

That's really too bad, I'd prefer seeing some hi-ougis in Legendia like the other Tales games...

Originally Posted by Rocca

Speaking of Japanese tracks, you reminded me one of the reasons why I loved Destiny on the PSX for so much; how they kept all the original japanese voices during battles. That was truly cool, albeit lazy, but I'm 100% sure I would have preferred those voices instead of lame English dubs.

I think it would be nice, granted developers had the disc space, to always include Japanese and English voices. Capcom is notorious for this in its Onimusha series, Shin Onimusha JAP is entirely dubbed and subbed in English or Japanese. It's why I imported it instead of waiting for the American release this Spring. ;D

No kidding, I swear leaving the Japanese voices be in the localized ToP would avoid a lot of complaints... "IT ENDS, HYEAAA... INdigNAtion~~!"... -___-lll

That's why I like .hack series even though Bandai decided to release something that could be on two DVDs into 4 separate DVDs... the complete Japanese voiceover is kept there for gamers to choose.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by yangxu

No kidding, I swear leaving the Japanese voices be in the localized ToP would avoid a lot of complaints... "IT ENDS, HYEAAA... INdigNAtion~~!"... -___-lll

That's why I like .hack series even though Bandai decided to release something that could be on two DVDs into 4 separate DVDs... the complete Japanese voiceover is kept there for gamers to choose.

Just thinking of Rutee's "BuuuHhLahdEeee TeeeEaaaAArrrR" makes me all warm inside. Maybe that's one of the pluses of playing imports nowadays. The voices are intact and in their original form, so when you hear characters like in Abyss yell stuff, you know that it was tailormade for the audience, and not just slapped on a figure for translation.

And regarding Legendia progression, I opened up Moses' Character Quest right before seeing Dave Chappelle's Block Party. This is one fine night.

How ya doing, buddy?

So currently at the Character Quests Intro. Well, how long would this take (and when the "main" quest had voices in cutscenes for the most part, I'm surprised they took it off here. Quite the letdown at least for me.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Finished the Character Quests and opened up 2nd Play as well as the Grade Shop. Thoughts? Really awesome. The Character Quests were more fun than the actual Main Quest.

The final boss

Spoiler:

Schwartz, who is basically the polar opposite of Grune (they're like twins) was a real pain even at level 85. The fact that Grune and Schwartz both "die" was kind of cool, albeit sad. I also liked Grune a lot better when she had no memory and didn't act like a goddess (since she is). The summons coming to life was also pretty cool.

So yeah, then the Grade Shop opens and you can buy just about everything available in the shop for about 450 Grade. Good thing I stocked 900.

Originally Posted by Terminus

So currently at the Character Quests Intro. Well, how long would this take (and when the "main" quest had voices in cutscenes for the most part, I'm surprised they took it off here. Quite the letdown at least for me.

Probably like, 30 hours? It's not exactly short. Another thing, try to go through each quest slowly. I've found myself getting tired of playing the CQ's after long 10 hour runs. It's not like the Main Quest so you have to take it bit by bit to appreciate it. If that made any sense.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I completed the full game last week, and I must say that I highly enjoyed it. The battle system was good, but i CANNOT STAND random battles because they happen too damn often. I found myself using holy bottles throughout the CQs. Either way I look at it as the "main" quest being Senel, and Shirley's CQ. It seems to make more sense that way. Also did anyone else feel good after the end of chapter 4? Just one thing that bugged me about that chapter, and about the events in the CQs.

Spoiler:

All of that build up to Vaclav, and he turns out to be absolutly pathetic! Stingle was the true challenge! I also cannot stand how so many people pull a complete 180 during the CQ. Mainly Mauritz(SP?) It just seems so stupid to be completely fine with everything after the way he was acting at the end of the game. Even if it was only because he was under control of the raging nerifes, it's sill pretty retarded IMO.

Other than those small nit picks, a VERY enjoyable game. Oh, and IMO the music his HIGHLY overrated. It seems everyone just likes unique sounding stuff these days.

How ya doing, buddy?

Quote:

Oh, and IMO the music his HIGHLY overrated. It seems everyone just likes unique sounding stuff these days.

*shrugs* To each his own. I found the soundtrack to be absolutely outstanding.

And yes about your spoiler.

Spoiler:

Maurits' 180 was ridiculous. I was quite angry he even survived the battle. The only person I hated more than him was Walter. Couldn't stand either of them.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Yea, I guess i'm in the minority about the music. I'm not saying I hated it, but I only found about 2 songs that I would listen to outside of the game. IMO the best song was the very crazy one they played in some of the monuments in the quiet lands. And in response to your response about my spoiler:

Spoiler:

I loved how Walter wasted his last energy summoning that absolutly pathetic machine. A wasted death for a character that quite honestly wasted my time.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well I'm after 15th hour of gameplay and I just switched to Grandia III =P Maybe later I'll pop it back to PS2.

There's nowhere I can't reach.