[General Discussion] Games you consider "Perfect"?

I have a few...

Shadow of the Colossus: I feel that this is THE defining game of this past generation. It is, unquestionably, one of the most beautiful games I've ever played, aurally, visually, and emotionally. You can't tell me you didn't feel like a black hole started to consume your soul when...

Spoiler:

Agro died

It's really just too brilliant for words. I love this game to death.

Megaman 2: This was the defining game for me when I first started playing video games. I've always placed the Megaman series high up on my list of favorite video game series, and MM2 is the pinnacle of the series.

Gunstar Heroes: Insane, INSANE action, guns, explosions, and fucking sick guns. And to top it off, it's not too hard like Contra. It's a perfect action game, one of the best I've ever played.

The Guardian Legend: This game blew me away when I first played it on the NES. It has such an INCREDIBLE amount of depth that I'm willing to flat out admit that I've never seen on an NES game, let alone some SNES games. It combines top-down action-adventure with RPG leveling/upgrade elements and then mixes that with a great vertical space shooter. One of my all time faves!

Metroid Prime: Say what you will, but I think this is the best console FPS ever made. The environments, the scope, the size, everything. This game has it all. It took the 2D experience and translated it to 3D with PERFECTION!

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time: While I love LttP, I give my nod to Ocarina because like Metroid Prime, it successfully took a 2D series and brought it to life in 3D. Above that, it had an enormous amount of fun side quests, and lasted tons of hours beyond it's initial story. It's the only game where I've had an equal amount of fun with the side quests and the main story. Brilliant!

One more...

Guitar Hero: I've never had a video game last me more than a month that wasn't an RPG. Guitar Hero 1 lasted me 10 months, and the only reason I stopped playing it was because Guitar Hero 2 came out. It's the ultimate pick-up-and-play game, and it really brings people together. It's a great social game, and makes it one of the funnest games I've ever played.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Most of the games that just clicked for me have been listed...

1) Zelda Ocarina of Time: Oh, except for this! I understand why people chose LttP over Oot, but for me this game just worked out for me. It was "perfect". This remains true today as I compare how much of an impact certain games have had on me (as against how OoT affected me).

2) Resident Evil 4: Everything was right on target. Nice graphics, great soundtrack, awesome ambience and gun-toting gameplay. Allowed me to enter the world of Resi Evil more than its predecessors

3) F-Zero GX: A racer that just 'clicked'. I'm not a big fan of realistic racers, so F-Zero's stupidly sense of speed, great graphics. sweet soundtrack and tight gameplay really won me over. The difficulty rewarded the dedicated: hard, but certainly not impossible.

4) Ico: An adventure that's once in a lifetime. As an adventure game, this game has come pretty close to impacting me as OoT did. Excellent mood, awesome graphics and isolated atmosphere all helped this game deliver a great experience.

All of these games really grabbed my attention and are therefore on my list of 'perfect' games. Sure all of them have faults, but it's the experience I got from playing them that makes them so great.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I think there is no such thing such as "perfect game", but I have two in my mind for RPG: Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX, 1997) and Saga Frontier (PSX, 1997), and one for puzzle: Tetris

Final Fantasy Tactics is probably the best strategic game ever, despite its north american version have inaccurate translation, mini games being removed and a very limited party member. I couldnt tell how much I adore the system of this game. The job and skill system is just uber amazing, which is the reason I hate Final Fantasy Tactics Advance to death.

Saga Frontier, though it's very obscure game with a very different system compared to traditional rpg, I surprisingly like this game very much, it's only the second of my favorite after Final Fantasy Tactics. Man, I think I overplay it too much, I think it almost counts to 20 already.

Tetris, what could I say? I think this game is very fun and I havent been able to defeat it even once since the day I had my old gameboy. This is probably the most perfect of all game.

But again, I dont think there is no such perfect game, but well, these three are what I think at the moment.

Originally Posted by Kostaki

Dragon Quest III. Regardless of which version of the game you played, you were in for the time and the challenge of your life. You could ride solo, you could duo, trio, or go for a full party. You could choose so many distinct classes, then hit up the Shrine of Dharma and create hybrid upon hybrid of each and every class to have ultimate customized classes. This was only the NES version too.

Probably it's due to my personal taste, but seriously, I'm trying very hard to enjoy Dragon Quest series, but in the end I seem fail at the end. No games outside Dragon Quest Monster series could make me understand why this game becomes the most favorite RPG for japanese gamers.

It's probably because Chrono Trigger is the first RPG I played and I grew playing Squaresoft franchises.

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Oooo nice topic.

Well, I have several games that I consider flawless. The first being Earthbound ofcourse. PERFECT in my eyes. Yeah it's a simple story but what game isn't to an extent? The characters defintely make up for the story line. Usually in games side characters are boring and annoying, but most of the side characters in the game are so funny and interesting; each resident has a different personality. The unique and quirky qualities really add to the game. What RPG are you going to find that has hamburgers to replenish your HP? Not only hamburgers but other types of foods, cake, sandwiches, pizza etc. You can get an ATM card! I love Ness' dad for putting so much money in my account after battles. I thank him. haha So yeah in conclusion, this game is flawless.

Legend of the Dragoon. I don't think there was anything to make this game better than it already is. The story line is amazing, character development is so in depth that I truly feel for each character, even the "evil" characters. I love the gameplay; it is truly unique. Oh and the fact that LOTD is pretty long is a plus for me (I love long games). LOTD also provides great memories for me.

We Y Katamari. When I'm feeling down I play this game. It's just fun and the music is catchy. Addicting game!

I was speaking idiomatically.

In my opinion, Link's Awakening blows A Link to the Past out of the water. While LttP is certainly a great game, Link's Awakening and the experience I had playing it make it my favorite. The story, while never at the forefront, is much more involving and complex than any other Zelda game, especially LttP (which had virtually no story). The gameplay had all of the brilliant elements LttP created and expanded upon them, bringing new and more versatile items to your arsenal. The dungeons felt richer and more challenging, as did the bosses. And Link's Awakening was the first Zelda game to really push the idea of sidequests and other activities to do outside of dungeons (other than finding your way to the next dungeon), which I really love about all the later Zelda games. It also had characters you cared about, and the ending came as a total surprise, both devastating and profoundly beautiful after having played it for so long and put so much time into it.

That's the perfect game for me, bar none.

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Originally Posted by HostileCreation

In my opinion, Link's Awakening blows A Link to the Past out of the water. While LttP is certainly a great game, Link's Awakening and the experience I had playing it make it my favorite. The story, while never at the forefront, is much more involving and complex than any other Zelda game, especially LttP (which had virtually no story). The gameplay had all of the brilliant elements LttP created and expanded upon them, bringing new and more versatile items to your arsenal. The dungeons felt richer and more challenging, as did the bosses. And Link's Awakening was the first Zelda game to really push the idea of sidequests and other activities to do outside of dungeons (other than finding your way to the next dungeon), which I really love about all the later Zelda games. It also had characters you cared about, and the ending came as a total surprise, both devastating and profoundly beautiful after having played it for so long and put so much time into it.

That's the perfect game for me, bar none.

Even though RPG is my favorite genre and I don't think about Zelda too much, I think I agree with you here. I haven't played any Zelda in 6 years, but I remember liking Awakening more. Seemed to challenge me better.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Borg1982

Final Fantasy IV - USA version; SNES.

Hold on a sec. Are you saying you find the original SNES version to be perfect? So you don't mind the awful translation, brief censorship and altered Easy Mode?

Now for the second game I consider to be perfect; though I'm sure this choice isn't going to be quite as well received.

Why this one? Timing has a lot to do with it. In a time when the PS2 was still new and pushing next gen graphics, this was the one game everyone was waiting to see in action. The demo was utterly amazing, and the real game managed to outdo it. Even though the PS2 was already nearly a year old, it felt like you were playing it for the first time.

Yes, there are notable criticisms, in the form of Jack and Rose. I consider the latter to be a rather insignificant player in the grand scheme of things, so I don't consider her whiny codec conversations to be either a positive or negative.

And as for Raiden, heck I loved Raiden, at least in concept; having him turn out to be the "real" main character, even going so far as to show Snake traversing the Plant in early trailers, was a ballsy but brilliant move. And even though Raiden doesn't hold a candle to Snake's badass attitude, that was never the intention; instead, you were given a chance to get to know Snake and his motives in a way that would've been impossible if he was still the main character.


I think I can squeeze in a third game that I consider to be "perfect". More on that later.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

There's no such thing as a perfect game. A perfect game means everything is perfect. Sorry, no such game exists.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

Hold on a sec. Are you saying you find the original SNES version to be perfect? So you don't mind the awful translation, brief censorship and altered Easy Mode?

I was going to explain why it's better than the others but I forgot.

1. The amount of items in the japanese game fills up your inventory window too early in the game. I don't even give a crap whatsoever about those items. Oh my god, they seperated all of the status-curing items instead of grouping it into one item called "Heal" like the USA one has. It's such a hard game. Oh no! The items being seperated or all in one doesn't add a challenge to me. I like to refer to the other one as the "annoying type".

2. "Several battle commands have been removed—including Tellah's Recall (allowing him to use a random magic spell), Edward's Medicine (which used Potions from the player's inventory to heal the entire party), and Cecil's DarkWave, etc". Hmmmm.. let's see... how does keeping options that help you in battles make things harder? It doesn't. It makes it easier.

3. I have beat the supposed "hard type" and it did not feel any harder whatsoever in terms of boss & enemy power.

4. Translation compared to which one? The ps1 and gba remakes have left out the classics like "Spoony Bard" and "Ohh.. getting cozy". Take a look at my first post on page 1 of the thread. Look at he quotes from the story. They are great, emotional quotes. There's nothing wrong with them. Also, I am so obsessed with FF4 that I have compared the three translations (SNES, PS1 and GBA). The American SNES one is superior. For example:

Spoiler:

SNES:

Edge: Hope he doesn't get hypnotized again.
Kain: If that happens again, go ahead and get rid of me.

PS1:

Edge: You'll just end up gettin' hypnotized again.
Kain: Pray kill me if that happens.

GBA:

Edge: I hope you don't end up betraying us again.
Kain: If that happens, kill me as well.

I find the SNES one best because Edge begins by not respecting or liking Kain enough to even talk to him. He throws that comment into the group out of his irritation. Then, Kain uses an indirect way to speak of them killing him instead of a boring direct way. "get rid of me" tells me more of what he's feeling and "kill me as well" or "pray kill me" are stupid lines.

Reply back about this if you want. I am always open to talking about my perfect video game -- all versions.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

Gunstar Heroes: Insane, INSANE action, guns, explosions, and fucking sick guns. And to top it off, it's not too hard like Contra. It's a perfect action game, one of the best I've ever played.

Damn how could I forget that game! You can always tell the mark of a good game when it makes the other game console companies jealose, hell you can get it on the wii now so enough said. You also reminded me of another great game series which has to be Streets of Rage (mainly part 2) it's one of the most frantic 2D fighting game series out there, long as you crank up the difficutly that is otherwise you won't know what I'm talking about

Originally Posted by Chairman Kaga

There's no such thing as a perfect game. A perfect game means everything is perfect. Sorry, no such game exists.

Perfect is an overused word these days in truth it's kinda like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, still the guy said games you consider to be perfect so there's no need to read that far into it

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Chairman Kaga

There's no such thing as a perfect game. A perfect game means everything is perfect. Sorry, no such game exists.

Of course not. It's safe to assume that "perfect" in the context of this thread means closest to pefect.

May as well add another one that hasn't been mentioned yet:



Donkey Kong Country 2 improves on the original in every way. Better level designs, more varied environments and obstacles, a greater level of difficulty, and a totally awesome soundtrack. It's a classic in every respect and the peak of the DKC series for me. It has virtually no shortcomings and it's one of my all time favorite platformers.

Btw, TJ&E (ahead of its time), Earthbound (brilliantly comedic), Metroid Prime (Metroid excellence in 3D), and SoR2 (best beat 'em up I've ever played) are all personal favorites of mine as well.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Valkyrie Profile:

This is one of my few games that i actually consider perfect. It has beautiful characters, kick ass storyline, amazing graphics, unique gameplay and a pretty damn good soundtrack.

Some people say that the voice acting wasn't great. Despite some very few characters i found the voice acting pretty decent. I don't know, is not that i'm a fanboy or anything, but Lenneth voice is supposed to be "emotionless". And i can't get tired of hearing Lezard saying "Prismatic Missile".

I finished the game like 7 or 8 times and i can't really get tired of it. I'm also planning on buying the PSP to have that port (one of my two reason for buiyng the psp now, finally Portable Ops is out).

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I don't "perfect" this game because it doesn't have a masterful & cinematic story with tons of characterization, but its the best DW there is.

So because Dragon Quest III, a game which started out on the Famicom/NES, does not have a "masterful & cinematic story" you simply cannot find it perfect. Since when do games require having cinematics of ANY type to be perfect? I realize that might be your personal preference, but come on. You lost a ton of respect with me with that statement right there, and that's sad.

The only thing I think games should be "required" to have in order to be perfect to any particular person is entertainment value. How it is achieved, either by "masterful & cinematic story" sequences or kickass gameplay, is entirely at the discretion of each respective game. It is the sole reason there is such diversity in what people find perfect, from Katamari to Tetris to Mario to Metroid to Final Fantasy.

I'm quite surprised you choose to dote on Dragon Quest so much, then say that. I guess your views have changed over the years.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I second EarthBound. I've played this RPG more than any other I own, over 8 complete play throughs, at LEAST. Lalala (EB Chick) said it right that each NPC has a personality of his/her own. It adds an exciting depth to the game when you wonder what the story is with individual NPCs, and even main plot NPCs alike. The whole game makes you wonder a bit, because it is set in modern day. The story is a bit simple, but what's the big deal? It's a wacky adventure that provides a lot of memorable scenes such as exploring a man who was transformed into a dungeon. Using "Pencil Erasers" to get rid of annoying pencil-shaped statues in your path. Saturn Valley - home of the Mr. Saturns? Master Belch and his fly-honey factory? The mysterious nature of the sanctuary spots... it's wonderous. Any RPG fan should play this game.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Kostaki

So because Dragon Quest III, a game which started out on the Famicom/NES, does not have a "masterful & cinematic story" you simply cannot find it perfect. Since when do games require having cinematics of ANY type to be perfect? I realize that might be your personal preference, but come on. You lost a ton of respect with me with that statement right there, and that's sad.

The only thing I think games should be "required" to have in order to be perfect to any particular person is entertainment value. How it is achieved, either by "masterful & cinematic story" sequences or kickass gameplay, is entirely at the discretion of each respective game. It is the sole reason there is such diversity in what people find perfect, from Katamari to Tetris to Mario to Metroid to Final Fantasy.

I'm quite surprised you choose to dote on Dragon Quest so much, then say that. I guess your views have changed over the years.

I think you have me wrong here. First off, it's the perfect dragon warrior. The GBC version is my 5th favorite game of all-time. (After FF4, Shining Force CD, FF1, Shining Force 3).

In fact, it's well known by people who know me that 80% of how I score a video game is based on how good gameplay is, while 20% is based on music, story, and extras.

We are just at a complete difference of opinion. For example, Tetris is a rather perfect puzzle game, and requires no storyline to earn that label.

I simply believe that RPGs (my favorite genre) are held to a very high standard. Sure, I didn't expect cinematics on original NES, but I keep my definition of a perfect RPG (keyword: RPG. I didnt mean to say "GAME" in general) the same. And the reason for that is because I expect their storylines to really move me and their gameplay be brilliant. If they excel at both, they are perfect to me. DQ8 is pretty close to perfection because of it's storyline and gameplay, but DQ8 didn't make my top 5 and it's gameplay isn't as excellent as 3's.

So in review:
DW3 has perfect gameplay.
FF4 is a perfect RPG (story + gameplay), thus a perfect game.
Tetris is a perfect puzzle game, thus a perfect game.
An RPG must be perfect in both aspects to be rated a perfect game to me.
To me, it is entertainment value for most genres, but not RPGs.
Also keep in mind there are rarely any perfect video games to me.
I find things like DW3, Shining Force CD, and other stuff EXTREMELY GOOD GAMES but it takes a lot for the honor of being called perfect.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Ninja Gaiden Black and Super Mario World. That's it. I could go into details as to why each are perfect in my opinion, but I don't feel like it. I mean, if everything is perfect about it, what's there to write a paragraph about?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

Gunstar Heroes: Insane, INSANE action, guns, explosions, and fucking sick guns. And to top it off, it's not too hard like Contra. It's a perfect action game, one of the best I've ever played.

FUCKING YES. 95% of games made by Treasure are borderline "perfect" games - Gradius V, Silhouette Mirage, Mischief Makers, Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun, oh god. So many great games. It's almost as if they're the god of all game developers.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

DW3 has perfect gameplay.
FF4 is a perfect RPG (story + gameplay), thus a perfect game.

So in essence, a game that allows you complete customization of your party and allows you to go through the story with any character combination you like compares to a game where you are given no character customization at all and up to the release of FFIV Advance, absolutely no choice in who you could have in your party at ALL.

I'm not ragging on FFIV at all here as it is an excellent game in it's own right, but you have to be sorely mistaken if you think FFIV's gameplay hangs with Dragon Quest III. Dragon Quest is BUILT on gameplay, that's why it has the following it does. FFIV is superior in story and characterization, DQIII is superior in gameplay and customization. Since gameplay has a higher value than story and characterization well, you get the idea. Don't say it doesn't either, because nobody will play a game they hate to play because the story is badass, whereas anyone will play a fun game with little story.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Okay well, first I'll go ahead and renominate Chrono Trigger, for obvious and already-stated reasons. I'll also renominate Valkyrie Profile.

As far as new stuff goes? First up is Dark Cloud 2. Has there even been another game that has improved so dynamically upon its predecessor? No. None that you could convince me of, anyway, save maybe for Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Maybe. In any case, the only plausible flaw that game has is the dungeon crawling which, compared to the first game, wasn't bad at all. In fact, it's perfect for the kind of game DC2 is, so that disqualifies the flaw. It's bright, vivid, has some great characters and a decent musical score as well. And the Atlamilia and rebuilding cities? Yeah, that's made of nothing but win.

Another new one for the crowd -- Sim City on the SNES. I left my SNES on for a week just to let my population reach its peak of "megapolis" or something to that effect. I had so much fun building cities that time seemed of little consequence while playing. No other Sim City game has come close to recreating that experience for me.

Age of Empires II was also fun as hell. I really enjoyed just playing random games, but damn was AoE 2 fun. I played for hours on end just messin around. Dunno what it was about the game, but it, along with its predecessor, laid the groundwork for my future RTS experiences.

Zone of the Enders 2 was awesome. I've played through it at least 20+ times. I love mech combat, and the controls for ZOE2 are little short of flawless. It's a beautiful game too, with a mix of cel-shading and 3D for everything. A few of the battles are stand-out too, namely the one with Zakat, the huge Dynasty Warriors-esque fight, and the fight with Ardjet when it was contaminated by Viola. Win.

Last but never, ever least -- Okami. Okami made me say "Fuck Zelda." A goddess reborn into a wolf to tell one of the most fascinating and creative stories ever puts Okami at the absolute #1 point on my list. The watercolor cel-shading was absolutely perfect for Okami's tale, leaving nothing to be desired graphically. The score was absolutely fitting in every instance music was playing. Combat was great fun -- playing a huge-sword wielding, bead-whip wearing, shield-bashing wolf goddess was awesome. And oh yeah, the Celestial Brush? Best. Gameplay mechanic. EVER. Everytime I gained a new brush technique I would return to old areas and try the new tricks out, and that was something Okami truly shined in -- bringing you back to the first areas. There wasn't anything I didn't enjoy doing in Okami, and I hope another developer will be brave and take on the daunting task of creating another game like Okami, since hte most awesome and incredible Clover Studios is out of the picture.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Kostaki

So in essence, a game that allows you complete customization of your party and allows you to go through the story with any character combination you like compares to a game where you are given no character customization at all and up to the release of FFIV Advance, absolutely no choice in who you could have in your party at ALL.

I'm not ragging on FFIV at all here as it is an excellent game in it's own right, but you have to be sorely mistaken if you think FFIV's gameplay hangs with Dragon Quest III. Dragon Quest is BUILT on gameplay, that's why it has the following it does. FFIV is superior in story and characterization, DQIII is superior in gameplay and customization. Since gameplay has a higher value than story and characterization well, you get the idea. Don't say it doesn't either, because nobody will play a game they hate to play because the story is badass, whereas anyone will play a fun game with little story.

Now you are getting into sheer opinion. You are comparing the games and how they were done.

Differences between us:
Borg = Entertainment value for most genres is good enough to decide on giving the perfect title. RPG's = Gameplay + Storyline must be perfect to gain the title.

You = Entertainment value must be perfect for any genre for it to gain that title.

So, for example, there is heavy entertainment value when I play the addicting game "Diablo 2". It is pretty much like crack. But overall fulfillment is a term that has not been brought up yet. Sure, I can play Diablo 2 and get entertainment at the time of my playing it, but afterward, or reflecting on it, or looking back, there was no character-based storyline, there were no cool extra fun things to do, and so the fulfillment is less.

DW3 has no cinematic storyline, but it fulfills me in every bit of gameplay that I asked it for. I think I get your point now, though. You are trying to argue that almost all DW is not built upon story at all. It is built upon great gameplay. I like gameplay the most, of course, too. That's why DW > FF (as a series). So, you are saying I should admit that my favorite DW is a perfect game because of it's great, great gameplay that we both love so much.
Can't do it. I can say that, knowing full well that DW is built upon gameplay, that it is the absolute PERFECT DRAGON WARRIOR there is. But not the perfect game, let alone RPG.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I think opinion has little to do with the idea that you claim both games have the same level of gameplay value. Which you do of course, because you raise FFIV over DQIII because FFIV has both and DQIII only has one. That is false, regardless of who you are or how you look at it.

I don't want you to admit anything, but I will call you on the fallacy of FFIV being "perfect" because you think it has equal gameplay value to Dragon Quest III. I never said anything about the story value in any DQ game, but I did state that FFIV has superior story value. It simply negates your qualifications of FFIV being "perfect" when it simply does not have the gameplay aspect, much like Dragon Quest does not have the story/cinematic aspect.

Even so, I continue to believe Dragon Quest III is perfect, and you continue to believe that Final Fantasy IV is. We agree to disagree, and are essentially both hypocrites when applied to your standard. Oh well.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

It seems like you keep bringing up what your opinion is of FF4 and how it does not deserve to be a perfect game just because you believe the gameplay is worse. I like the gameplay of FF4 the most, having experienced every FF and DW game because:

1. Specific character classes, pretty much equalized.
2. You cannot splurge yourself in getting the best spell in the game for everyone like on some games. There are specific boundries so that everyone must work as a team in the battle to defeat it. (This is not an argument against my 5th favorite game, remember. I'm stating why FF4 is on top, that's all).
3. The bosses are some of my favorite. There are elemental ones, there are tough summons, and there are ones that you must use specific strategy like bouncing a spell off of an ally so it goes to the enemy. Many Final Fantasy bosses are actually more fun to face than Dragon Warrior bosses (although sometimes DW ones are harder, at the core).
4. Has my favorite spells. I also end up using every single spell rather than get tons of magic like on FF6 or 7 and only end up using half of the available beacuse a lot of it is useless.
5. Has my favorite summons. Asura, Baham, Odin, etc.
6. Getting the best weapons and armor in the game usually means defeating placed bosses beforehand to prove yourself.
7. ATB is a great system.

Can't think of what else right now. So you said "when it simply does not have the gameplay aspect"... that is your view of it. Mine is different.

FELIPE NO

Like I said, what I've brought up concerning FFIV is not opinion. It is established fact.

1. Equalization leads to zero customization.
2. This is false. I've gotten up to the point where when you regain a certain character in the Underworld, she already had the use of Meteo. Like in all games, you can powerlevel to that point. So this point is invalidated.
3. Opinionated, many said elements also exist in Dragon Quest III. Additionally, I could say that Dragon Quest III's Metabble/Metal Babble is consequently the same as FFIV's Pink Puff.
4. Opinionated, many said situations also occur in Dragon Quest III.
5. Opinionated, Bahamut's Megaflare is no better than Explodet in terms of effect, they only differ in graphical structure. Both achieve the same result. The others also have similar spell structure and graphics. This is NES versus SNES, so I'm allowing a discrepancy between the graphical capabilities. This is fair enough.
6. Opinionated, as one might find surviving a long dungeon trek to get them from various points (Rubiss' Tower/Charlock Castle) a task as difficult as winning a few key battles.
7. Opinionated, ATB wasn't exactly groundbreaking at the time. FFIV only drew what value it had into the light, as only a FF could.

This is all fine and good, but don't dredge Dragon Quest III into the ground and say Final Fantasy IV has greater gameplay potential. I will agree with you that it has the superior story and characterization, and a lot of depth over Dragon Quest III. Everything else may be your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but as I already said under your standards of perfection Final Fantasy IV falls short of perfect.

You may amend those standards, if you like.

EDIT: I apologize for the slight thread derailment here, this should be over shortly.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

(This is not an argument against my 5th favorite game, remember. I'm stating why FF4 is on top, that's all).

^ you may have missed that part. That goes for any point I was trying to make about FF4. And of course all of that is opinionated.
Also, just because DW3 might have more "gameplay potential" just because you can choose what classes you want, doesn't mean it has better caves, bosses, monsters, etc. But enough opinion.

Wouldn't you think that the perfect RPG game ever made would have the best gameplay, cinematical story, characters, side quests & other side fun things to do? Pretend that exists for you.

Then why is it so hard to understand that FF4 is close to perfect because it suits what I want in terms of those things?

You could be achieving maximum entertainment value if DW3 had more than just having the best classic gameplay in the world of gaming. But it doesn't have a lot more. (remember, this isn't me making fun of my 5th best. Gameplay is more important to me than any other aspect, but adding the best story, cinematics, side quests, etc, would make a game like that absolutely perfect in every way -- (EDIT): -- perfect in all the ways that you can possibly be in a game. You are forcing yourself to think that perfection begins and ends in just gameplay for some reason, yet would (i hope) admit that a perfect game would consitute perfect gameplay, chars, story, sidequests, etc).

So, if DW3 had a brilliant plot & characters with the same gameplay, it would officially be my perfect game, and FF4 would not because it would, for example, be the same but without the storyline. I don't know how else to explain this and its almost 6am

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Then simply say that Dragon Quest III does not suit what you want, rather than say that because it lacks something it has no business being called a perfect game. There's no reason to continually reiterate that Dragon Quest III is your 5th favorite game either, we get that already.

Easy enough, eh?

There's nowhere I can't reach.