Pregnant teen needs help! (The sequel)

Originally Posted by Traveller87

Define "proper home". If she gives it up for adoption, it will change everything, for her and the older sibling, as well as the guy and the rest of her family. But I agree, she needs to give all of this serious thought and draw the necessary consequences. Because if the kids are suffering (doesn't sound like they are as long as her mum is there to "fix things" for her), somebody needs to alert social services. Like someone said in the first thread, it may just be what she needs to wake her up. Also, aren't there any parenting classes or any other support groups for young mothers in your area?

Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those "Every family should have a Mother, Father, 2 Door Garage home with strong religion based " individuals whom believes anything outside of that should result in the child(s) being taken away. I was more concerned about the mothers' lack of maturity and inability to support the kids financially and possibly emotionally. I was raised by a single mother, I know it's a tough job.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

This is something I never understood. Parenting classes? What is this hippie new age bullshit.

At the same time, I imagine these "parenting classes" cost money. Who's going to pay for that?

You, me, but not Brady. He's a libertarian.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

In the Fourth Valley Area, which is where I live at the moment, there are both support groups for single parents, as well as classes in primary care for babies. These are free of charge, and partly run by the NHS. And no, that's not because Stirling is such a posh, rich place - it has high unemployment rates and the highest suicide rate in Scotland. So don't give me any of that hippie talk.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

She should have got an abortion as soon as she found out she was pregnant. Now, her only options are:

1.) Have the baby and put it up for adoption.

2.) Have a late-term abortion (NOT recommended considering the child is probably already somewhat developed and that would just be sick)

3.) Try and raise the child while being unemployed.


I think 1 is her best bet.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Traveller87

In the Fourth Valley Area, which is where I live at the moment, there are both support groups for single parents, as well as classes in primary care for babies. These are free of charge, and partly run by the NHS. And no, that's not because Stirling is such a posh, rich place - it has high unemployment rates and the highest suicide rate in Scotland. So don't give me any of that hippie talk.

"Hippie talk?" Yea, no, see I was accusing you of the hippie talk. You're the one acting like a dirty hippie in the thread.

I say "Bitch is dumb. She needs a swift kick to the ass."

And you follow up with "Holy hell Sass, how dare you be so awful to imply that this girl isn't capable of taking care of herself!"

I am sitting here, dumbfounded by you.

At the same time, if we're going to start talking about parenting classes, you've just got to know how stupid that shit is. "Here is how you keep baby warm. Here is how you feed baby. Please do not let baby sit in squalor or put nasty things in it's mouth!"

People have been rearing children for centuries without "parenting classes." Why do you think some dumb broad should need them now?

The underlying point is the bitch is stupid, selfish, and not of a mental capacity to be popping out kids.

No one can take away her RIGHT to have kids, though. So I guess the family is just going to have to shut up and put up if they don't feel like doling out a little tough love.

Have fun with that free babysitting, Chibi!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

"Hippie talk?" Yea, no, see I was accusing you of the hippie talk.

Yes, I did understand that. I just didn't think it was justified.

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I say "Bitch is dumb. She needs a swift kick to the ass."

And you follow up with "Holy hell Sass, how dare you be so awful to imply that this girl isn't capable of taking care of herself!"

I am sitting here, dumbfounded by you.

Then you misunderstood me. My reply was actually more along the lines of "how is pointing out that she isn't taking care of herself and her kids very well bringing Chibi any closer to a solution?" It's pretty obvious that she keeps making mistakes, that she's stubborn and keeps screwing things up even more for herself and her kids. But it's also obvious that Chibi cares about her. So shouldn't the point be to find out to what extent something can be done, rather than just saying "forget that bitch"?

How convenient it must be to divide the world simply into good parents and bad parents - you can just stop interacting with anyone who makes a mistake! Good thing you're free of them.

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At the same time, if we're going to start talking about parenting classes, you've just got to know how stupid that shit is. "Here is how you keep baby warm. Here is how you feed baby. Please do not let baby sit in squalor or put nasty things in it's mouth!"

You'd be amazed how many people could do with even that bit of "stupid" advice. Just go to any local fast food place and watch some of the parents with their babies. A girl who uses a pizza box as a litter box for her cat sounds like she could use it.

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People have been rearing children for centuries without "parenting classes." Why do you think some dumb broad should need them now?

People have been rearing children for centuries without them, but they also had 10 of them and lost many of them before they even reached the age of 5. So it's all good, I guess, let's go back to the good old days and have higher child mortality rates, nothing wrong with that.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Traveller87

Then you misunderstood me. My reply was actually more along the lines of "how is pointing out that she isn't taking care of herself and her kids very well bringing Chibi any closer to a solution?" It's pretty obvious that she keeps making mistakes, that she's stubborn and keeps screwing things up even more for herself and her kids. But it's also obvious that Chibi cares about her. So shouldn't the point be to find out to what extent something can be done, rather than just saying "forget that bitch"?

What are you going to do, twist the girl's arm? At that point, you're not doing it so much for her, but yourself.

This girl has been handed help on all levels. I think you ought to check out Chibi's previous thread about this particular cousin.

You can lead a horse to water, as they say.

At what point are you going to just let the girl be responsible for herself? How ELSE do you think she'll learn at this point??

O. That's right. CLASSES!

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How convenient it must be to divide the world simply into good parents and bad parents - you can just stop interacting with anyone who makes a mistake! Good thing you're free of them.

Believe me - I've seen my fair share of the mediocre parents.

But in this case, the girl is 20 years old. At what point do you think it's fair to cut the umbilical cord and let the girl learn on her own? Did you read the previous thread?

Chibi's family isn't guilty of not helping the girl, to be sure. They've done as much as they physically, mentally, and legally can, with the exception of calling CPS and trying to seize the children. (Which isn't warranted, based on what Chibi has told us, I guess. Up for debate.)

For Chibi's family (which likely has it's own problems, as families often do), why should they spoon feed a 20 year old who is just plain out TOO DUMB and TOO LAZY to do anything for herself??

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You'd be amazed how many people could do with even that bit of "stupid" advice. Just go to any local fast food place and watch some of the parents with their babies. A girl who uses a pizza box as a litter box for her cat sounds like she could use it.

Do you think I don't live in a reality?

Chibi's cousin isn't feeding her kids scraps from a dumpster, here. (Well, she could be. In which case, HA HA, CALL CPS) In fact, I'm tempted to say the girl is too LAZY to go dumpster diving. She'd probably ask her mother to do it for her.

Chibi's cousin seems not to need "parenting classes" for the mentally deficient, but a good dose of reality. She doesn't seem to be mentally handicapped in a clinical sense - just handicapped by her own laziness and sheer stubbornness to accept the consequences of having a goddamn child.

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People have been rearing children for centuries without them, but they also had 10 of them and lost many of them before they even reached the age of 5. So it's all good, I guess, let's go back to the good old days and have higher child mortality rates, nothing wrong with that.

I'd say that has more to do with the condition of living and health care compared to the past.

"O. You're kid died of dysentery" doesn't exist too much anymore - not because of BETTER PARENTS necessarily, but thanks to medical breakthroughs. (LIKE BIRTH CONTROL.)

But let's pretend parenting classes are the entire cause for decreased infant mortality rates!

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

They certainly weren't, but what does the mere existence of children for centuries tell us about parenting in relation to our expectations of it? Not much.

You've got a point, Sass, the girl needs to start taking responsibility for her kids and herself, and not leave it up to others. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT (and yes, I have read the previous thread, hence the pizza box comment). So the conditions need to be toughened for her. I just don't think kicking her out on the street will do the children or her much good. Neither will walking up to her and saying "you're a lazy, dependent bitch" - that is NOT constructive criticism, it only makes people shut down.

I don't pretend to have a solution that will change everything, all I can say is that my next try would probably be a mixture of helping her to help herself (by pointing her in the right direction - job websites, advice centres, etc.), while at the same time putting more pressure on her (by telling her she either has to start working harder, or she'll have to move out and figure things out herself) . Positive reinforcement tends to work a lot better than punishment (and yes, I do realise that she's a woman, not a puppy). Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but it's pretty much all that's left for Chibi's family to do, because it sounds like they have tried everything.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Traveller87

They certainly weren't, but what does the mere existence of children for centuries tell us about parenting in relation to our expectations of it? Not much.

You've got a point, Sass, the girl needs to start taking responsibility for her kids and herself, and not leave it up to others. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT (and yes, I have read the previous thread, hence the pizza box comment). So the conditions need to be toughened for her. I just don't think kicking her out on the street will do the children or her much good. Neither will walking up to her and saying "you're a lazy, dependent bitch" - that is NOT constructive criticism, it only makes people shut down.

No, I agree. Screaming matches don't result in much besides hurt feelings and resentment.

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I don't pretend to have a solution that will change everything, all I can say is that my next try would probably be a mixture of helping her to help herself (by pointing her in the right direction - job websites, advice centres, etc.),

I'm not sure why you think this would help. I mean, her family (who presumably reared her) is giving her solid advice, and some additional bonuses.

I don't know what it's like over the pond, but I can guess this chick isn't educated and she's already got two babies. She should suck it up, work at McDonalds for a few months, and get some money saved.

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...while at the same time putting more pressure on her (by telling her she either has to start working harder, or she'll have to move out and figure things out herself) . Positive reinforcement tends to work a lot better than punishment (and yes, I do realise that she's a woman, not a puppy). Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but it's pretty much all that's left for Chibi's family to do, because it sounds like they have tried everything.

I wouldn't right-out kick her out of the house necessarily. But what's Mom going to do? Sit at home (possibly quitting her job) to ensure her daughter attends work every day while she watches the kids?

How far is too far.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

What do you think the chances are of getting this thread retitled to: Pregnant Teen II: Electric Boogaloo?

I just think that would make the whole thing, you know, less heavy of a subject.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

This entire story sounds like a Britney Spears sensationalism headline, where the whole point it to laugh and dismiss the lowest man on the totem pole.

What I see in that story is a girl who has messed her life up to a point of no return. I haven't read the entire thing, but it looks like it's a downhill roller coaster that hopefully doesn't end in an explosion. While I agree that you would want to help her, there is really no helping some people. I think Sass' treatment is right on the mark; some people just need a good wake up call. Then we can be nice and Traveler-esque, when she actually has an ear open and a mirror to her pathetic existance.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, I'm just hoping that she herself doesn't think her life is pathetic and damaged to the point of no return, because it's not. And once you don't see the point anymore, you're not going to work hard to improve things, because everything's hopeless, anyway She hasn't got a job, granted, and probably not much of an education, either. But that doesn't mean her life is ruined. She might actually come to appreciate her children at one point, if she had some sort of direction in life. For npw,her options are restricted, she has to be grateful if she gets any kind of job, and has to figure out what to do with her kids while she goes to work, which isn't easy, either.

Sass, I wasn't suggesting that mum does everything for her and sends her to work each day. The point is that the girl is supposed to reach a state where she can take care of herself, not to patronise her entirely. I don't know what kind of advice her family have given her. I'm sure they have done their best, and it sounds like they have been incredibly supportive. The thing is that any "do this"/"do that" advice usually doesn't work that well, because people need to feel that they are in control. "You have to make a decision, here are some options" may work better. THen again, it may not, but at least it's a new approach. It can't hurt to try it. Although she definitely may be past that point, and she may be stubborn and not respond to it. In this case, there's nothing else you can do, but at least you've ensured that she knows some options if you have to distance yourself from her.

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Originally Posted by Traveller87

Well, I'm just hoping that she herself doesn't think her life is pathetic and damaged to the point of no return, because it's not. And once you don't see the point anymore, you're not going to work hard to improve things, because everything's hopeless, anyway She hasn't got a job, granted, and probably not much of an education, either. But that doesn't mean her life is ruined. She might actually come to appreciate her children at one point, if she had some sort of direction in life. For npw,her options are restricted, she has to be grateful if she gets any kind of job, and has to figure out what to do with her kids while she goes to work, which isn't easy, either.

Sass, I wasn't suggesting that mum does everything for her and sends her to work each day. The point is that the girl is supposed to reach a state where she can take care of herself, not to patronise her entirely. I don't know what kind of advice her family have given her. I'm sure they have done their best, and it sounds like they have been incredibly supportive. The thing is that any "do this"/"do that" advice usually doesn't work that well, because people need to feel that they are in control. "You have to make a decision, here are some options" may work better. THen again, it may not, but at least it's a new approach. It can't hurt to try it. Although she definitely may be past that point, and she may be stubborn and not respond to it. In this case, there's nothing else you can do, but at least you've ensured that she knows some options if you have to distance yourself from her.

Is not seeing a point in moving forward any worse than what she's at now? She needs a reboot before you can install any new software on that computer (which would be beingamom101.exe). What I'm saying is that before we try to be compassionate, you need to make sure that it's worth bothering, and open her ear.

You need to give her a chance to see how low she is now so she can lift herself higher. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I agree. But where does listening to her come into the equation for you?

FELIPE NO

Just thought I let everyone know that she had her baby and it's another girl, she was 7 pounds and my cousin had her just a half-hour after arriving at the hospital.

Right now my cousin is living with her mom which is understandable seeing that she has a newborn and a 1 year old, she is gonna need some help, but I am willing to bet that it's gonna be years before she decides to move again.

I am not sure if the father was there at the hospital, I forgot to ask, it's not really my business anyway what he does although I would be dissapointed if he did not show up.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?