[Multiplatform] The Last Remnant: Life at 12 frames a second is a beautiful thing.

Originally Posted by Metal Sphere

I'm gonna have to ditto you and Mucknuggle, on this one. As of late their games have been passing my "Am-I-Having-Fun?" test, so I really don't see where the hate comes from. Now, if I start expecting masterpieces from them, I think I'll understand where the others are coming from.

Well, yeah...You'd kinda think games that sell as much as Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy would be masterpieces though.

I really hate the mark Nomura has left on the Final Fantasy franchise (not to mention many other lesser Square games he's designed characters for...Can someone say "pallette swap"?) and I didn't enjoy the first Kingdom Hearts at all (so naturally, I didn't pay any attention to the sequel). I think Square has been downright awful for a long time now, but I don't think it's solely on Nomura's shoulders...That whole company has issues from the ground up right now. I do think he has been given too much control of their most important projects.

What bugs me is...Why are the two guys who basically made Final Fantasy working at another company (Sakaguchi/Uematsu), while those that remain at Square whore the living fuck out of it?

So yeah...The Square side of SE is pretty "meh" these days.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

Well, yeah...You'd kinda think games that sell as much as Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy would be masterpieces though.

Not really, as there are quite a few games that sell better than either of those and they're by no means "masterpieces". SE seems to be giving folks what they want, that's all (and people buy it).

They do this even though they'll wind up pumping out formulaic titles that makes a small niche avoid their titles.

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I really hate the mark Nomura has left on the Final Fantasy franchise (not to mention many other lesser Square games he's designed characters for...Can someone say "pallette swap"?) and I didn't enjoy the first Kingdom Hearts at all (so naturally, I didn't pay any attention to the sequel). I think Square has been downright awful for a long time now, but I don't think it's solely on Nomura's shoulders...That whole company has issues from the ground up right now. I do think he has been given too much control of their most important projects.

What bugs me is...Why are the two guys who basically made Final Fantasy working at another company (Sakaguchi/Uematsu), while those that remain at Square whore the living fuck out of it?

So yeah...The Square side of SE is pretty "meh" these days.

I definitely agree with the bolded part. Though that just seems like a reflection of the company's current issues, in that they keep spamming this guy all over the place. Don't know how they'll fix this, but they should, since the FF series has seen its sales dropping since VII.

BTW, I like how you mentioned Sakaguchi and Uematsu seeing as how both have been meh for a good while now.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Pictures

There are some screen shots from the game.

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Originally Posted by Metal Sphere

BTW, I like how you mentioned Sakaguchi and Uematsu seeing as how both have been meh for a good while now.

Having just recently completed Blue Dragon, i have to scoff at this opinion. Blue dragon has been the most engaging RPG i've played that has come out of the Square/ex-Square employee camp since FFVI. Blue Dragon was so enjoyable, That the character designs from the hack that is Toriyama didn't even bother me.

Sakaguchi specifically didn't have much too do with many Square games in his final years with the company, his name was pretty much stamped on em because of who he is, but every game that he has entrenched himself in regards to the development has come out wonderful unlike the never-changing bullcrap that is churned out by Nomura.

I was speaking idiomatically.

*Shrug* Aside from Ys Origin and Wild Arms Vth Vanguard, the music for Blue Dragon is the best RPG score I've heard in awhile. And I'm finding out now I'd much rather have even uninspired Uematsu than some of the various replacements they've found for the series. Yes, even Hanjuku Hero 3D.

As for Sakaguchi...I'm not saying he's been god or that I'll buy a 360 just for Blue Dragon. I'm just saying he was the guy who oversaw the coming-up of FF (and Square, to be honest), so it's odd seeing him in another company and those remaining to have so little direction (other than to spam FF). Doesn't boost my confidence in Square at all. Seeing "OMFG! DEMO-fucking-GRAPHICS = innovation" for this particular game isn't helping matters.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Iwata

Having just recently completed Blue Dragon, i have to scoff at this opinion. Blue dragon has been the most engaging RPG i've played that has come out of the Square/ex-Square employee camp since FFVI.

I highly doubt it comes anywhere near FFVI, a title that many folks consider a masterpiece. For some reason, this looks like people getting fed up with Nomura's influence in many of SE's major titles.

Many of these gamers just want the same FF formula, without Nomura, and Mistwalker seems to provide this. Blue Dragon isn't exactly amazing, but taking the above into account, it's preferred over something from the Square-Enix camp.

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Sakaguchi specifically didn't have much too do with many Square games in his final years with the company, his name was pretty much stamped on em because of who he is, but every game that he has entrenched himself in regards to the development has come out wonderful unlike the never-changing bullcrap that is churned out by Nomura.

Really, the only RPG-centric company that has been quality throughout it's entire life-span has been Altus.

Eh, I wouldn't get all mastubatory on Sakaguchi. Like you mentioned in that last line, very few (if any) RPG-centric studios are capable of maintaining a certain level of quality for their titles. Mistwalker will have the same thing happen to them.

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

*Shrug* Aside from Ys Origin and Wild Arms Vth Vanguard, the music for Blue Dragon is the best RPG score I've heard in awhile. And I'm finding out now I'd much rather have even uninspired Uematsu than some of the various replacements they've found for the series. Yes, even Hanjuku Hero 3D.

As for Sakaguchi...I'm not saying he's been god or that I'll buy a 360 just for Blue Dragon. I'm just saying he was the guy who oversaw the coming-up of FF (and Square, to be honest), so it's odd seeing him in another company and those remaining to have so little direction (other than to spam FF). Doesn't boost my confidence in Square at all.

Oh, definitely. The real problem, at least in my opinion, is the apparent lack of new blood or talent. That would explain Nomura's rampage across their games. I'm sure if they tried, they could still appeal to their target demographic and old fans and try something new, but maybe they don't see the risk as worthwhile?

Edit: Ah, something else. The culture may have changed, such that the development environment isn't tolerant of new ideas or approaches to features we've taken for granted.

FELIPE NO

Also I find it bizarre that Game Informer, a US magazine is the first magazine to ever get shots from the game, its Square trying to get more focused on the US market by telling us "Don't worry, if you hate our girly main characters, we created one just for you?"

I mean usually the big news from SE always ended up on a magazine like Jump first in Japan, weekly ones. I believe the US doesn't HAVE any weekly game mags.

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Oh, definitely. The real problem, at least in my opinion, is the apparent lack of new blood or talent. That would explain Nomura's rampage across their games. I'm sure if they tried, they could still appeal to their target demographic and old fans and try something new, but maybe they don't see the risk as worthwhile?

Edit: Ah, something else. The culture may have changed, such that the development environment isn't tolerant of new ideas or approaches to features we've taken for granted.

If the culture has changed, then how come it only has really affected Square? I mean the other companies haven't exactly filled out their list of Upcoming games with just one franchise. And then we have games like Okami from Clover which was pretty fresh and new.

Trouble is Square is just way too famous and over shadowing other RPGs. Yeah, I may be a huge KH fan, but I still like venture more into different RPGs, which is why I'm glad GFF is back so I can read up on other RPGs and try them out. I have my eyes on Odin Sphere now. I mean, I went to two gaming concerts and naturally Square images didn't appear on their screens. Why? Cause they know they're too famous for it now, and to them its "better" to be more protective of their work, and unlike games like Odin Sphere they don't need show their game shots and videos cause they feel they don't need to market it, cause over 90% of the audience there are already fans of Square games and music.

I think that arrogance has affected the way they make their games, along with the lack of new talent. Strange is Konami and Capcom have franchises that can deem them into such pride, yet I haven't seen them go down the Square route or milking, nor did they went protective of their video material, so MGS videos defintly were at both game concerts I went. Why is Square the only exception?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Inhert

lol KHII is not the only game that got a second version in japan... FFVII got an international version too, same thing for FFX and KH got a final mix too...

I'm not sure what you point is. That other Nomura games got second versions means he consistently pumps out solid games?

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I don't believe FF7 or 10 was his work, he only did the character designs. KH is the first games he ever took on the direction helm. I think his point was that its not a Nomura trait, but a Square trait to keep making director cuts to games.

I wish people if they don't like a particular staff member like Nomura, at least blame him in games he actually directed. KH2 was still solid in its gameplay and I had alot of fun despite some story and pacing problems, but the story to be was still solid enough, probably cause I really love the characters. If people still think he's a hack or not a great game maker cause they didn't like KH2, then fine, but at least your opinion is informed. Stop trying to pin him on everything that goes wrong in Square just because he has some credits in multiple projects. The only games we CAN blame is the KH series, Versus 13 and the upcoming DS It's a Wonderful Life.

And getting back to THIS game, Last Remnant, the director is Hiroshi Takai, who also directed The Bouncer. Keep in mind though that similar to Xenogears, the game's developement was cut short by Square's impatience to the point that Dream Factory no longer works with them. So take it as you will...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Kairi Li

If the culture has changed, then how come it only has really affected Square? I mean the other companies haven't exactly filled out their list of Upcoming games with just one franchise. And then we have games like Okami from Clover which was pretty fresh and new.

I should've been more specific when I made that comment. I meant the environment within SE itself, since we're talking about SquareEnix here.

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Trouble is Square is just way too famous and over shadowing other RPGs. Yeah, I may be a huge KH fan, but I still like venture more into different RPGs, which is why I'm glad GFF is back so I can read up on other RPGs and try them out. I have my eyes on Odin Sphere now. I mean, I went to two gaming concerts and naturally Square images didn't appear on their screens. Why? Cause they know they're too famous for it now, and to them its "better" to be more protective of their work, and unlike games like Odin Sphere they don't need show their game shots and videos cause they feel they don't need to market it, cause over 90% of the audience there are already fans of Square games and music.

I think that arrogance has affected the way they make their games, along with the lack of new talent. Strange is Konami and Capcom have franchises that can deem them into such pride, yet I haven't seen them go down the Square route or milking, nor did they went protective of their video material, so MGS videos defintly were at both game concerts I went. Why is Square the only exception?

I agree they've become entirely too comfortable where they are now, and pick people to head their titles who will keep them there (hello Nomura), or at least avoid deviating from the procedure which has put them in their current spot. But as I mentioned before, the FF series has seen steadily declining sales since VII.

Unfortunately that's probably what it'll take to get them to change.

How ya doing, buddy?

I guess when he's hated as a character designer, it's only natural to hate him as a game designer and not distinguish the two. I do see he's not shy about remaining visible though, so that does give off the illusion he's more important than he seems.

That's interesting about the Bouncer though...Makes sense, now that I think about it (since so many people said the game was supposed to be a lot bigger, more interactive environments, etc and it turned out ridiculously short/simple to get in on the post PS2-launch). Shame, but yeah, XG had the same issue.

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Originally Posted by GoldfishX

I guess when he's hated as a character designer, it's only natural to hate him as a game designer and not distinguish the two. I do see he's not shy about remaining visible though, so that does give off the illusion he's more important than he seems.

It could be because he was the one that came up with the idea of making Aeris's death in FF7 to be more realistic, instead of the stupid hero sacrifice build up that most movies did. (Which they used Cait Sith as a parody to that.) It may be thanks to that, he started coming up with more ideas, which led him to both directional helm at KH and FF7 AC. People then slammed him cause AC wasn't the perfect movie in terms of story. But they fail to realise is that

A: AC is not a game, but a movie, and Nomura hasn't had experience in that field.

B: There is NO WAY a movie can tell a story that even measures up to the scale of any RPG.

You can't slam everything on one person without giving it some thought. KH2 was suppose to have alot of stuff from Final Mix, but it was because of schedule and BUDGET that they can't put it in, and NOT because Nomura's incompetant. And his character designs are all subjective in opinion.

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That's interesting about the Bouncer though...Makes sense, now that I think about it (since so many people said the game was supposed to be a lot bigger, more interactive environments, etc and it turned out ridiculously short/simple to get in on the post PS2-launch). Shame, but yeah, XG had the same issue.

And I was looking forward to the Bouncer too. Story wise it was solid, the length of a movie, and it had great characters which were all voiced so well in English. (Which led to my dismay in how FFX's voices were up and down in quality despite some great VAs in the title) The combat wasn't bad either and Multiplayer was so much fun. Then Square had to ruin it by cutting it short...

I was speaking idiomatically.

I have to say that I'm a huge fan of Square-Enix and everytime I see their logo on a game, I will most likely buy it and I don't remember being too disappointed. I even liked Dirge of Cerberus, but mainly because I knew what to expect of the game and lie it for what it was. Hell I even really like the game the bouncer for his style and character >.<

but I have to say that I liked more Squre-enix when they weren't focus so much on Final Fantasy. I like when they came up with brave fencer mushashi, Parasite Eve, Chrono and all those original game. Now all we se about SE is FF and DQ, oh! and KH too (they did said when they created KH that they wanted it to be part of they biggest series)

I mean now I'm glad that they are trying to do something new and I hope it will work and I really hope that it mean that they'll continue to make more of those original title. I think they are going too far with all those FF spin off and even if I like the Final Fantasy XIII project now that they have announce 3 more title for this, I'm really starting to be worried now... The problem is milking title work and they know that they'll make money with them...

I just hope they realize that the more they milk Final Fantasy the more people might loose interest in them.

Anyway I still like them because they still make good, fun and beautiful games, but they are starting to be a little to generic for me and my favorite games now then to be more original title then some Squere-Enix games.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

The screenshots looked like they were taken from a was-going-to-be Drakengard 3 or something =\

Well hopefully we'll get more info on this in the coming weeks or next month. The main JPN Character looks a lot like whats-his-name from Star Ocean 3 and the US Character looks like he was taken from a Devil May Cry early artwork sketchbook.

Still, nice to see a NEW game from SquareEnix.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

What bugs me is...Why are the two guys who basically made Final Fantasy working at another company (Sakaguchi/Uematsu), while those that remain at Square whore the living fuck out of it?

So yeah...The Square side of SE is pretty "meh" these days.

This has been brought up way too many times before, it's BUSINESS. As long as people still keep buying every port and every remake of an FF game, why WOULDN'T a company focus part of its activities on that game. I'm not trying to justify it all, but you can't be that naive that you think that SE would choose a risk like starting a new concept from scratch without having something to fall back on if something goes wrong. As for Sakaguchi, he may have been the brain behind the success behind the FF games, and even if they are "whoring the living fuck out of it", do you think that he cares now that he has his own business?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Enkidu

This has been brought up way too many times before, it's BUSINESS. As long as people still keep buying every port and every remake of an FF game, why WOULDN'T a company focus part of its activities on that game. I'm not trying to justify it all, but you can't be that naive that you think that SE would choose a risk like starting a new concept from scratch without having something to fall back on if something goes wrong. As for Sakaguchi, he may have been the brain behind the success behind the FF games, and even if they are "whoring the living fuck out of it", do you think that he cares now that he has his own business?

If I were naive about it, I wouldn't be questioning the motives and direction of the company (not to mention quality of games and the need for, say, 3 different versions of FFXIII and god-knows-how-many FFVII titles) and I'd be here screwing off to the FFX-2 girls like a good fanboy.

I'm just saying the misfits that are running Square now owe Sakaguchi a lot for establishing something that's keeping them in business, because they certainly aren't doing it any justice.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It's business, they don't owe him ANYTHING since he started his own company, there is no room for loyalty, legacy or other crap like that here.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Enkidu

It's business, they don't owe him ANYTHING since he started his own company, there is no room for loyalty, legacy or other crap like that here.

Actually, losing consumer confidence is a very large part of business. I have a LOT more confidence in Mistwalker and Blue Dragon than I have had in Square and any game or production of theirs over the past 5 years and I urge people to question why Square's been in such a misguided frenzy since Sakaguchi's departure as well. It's not "they owe Sakaguchi", it's "the people there now aren't that good...Maybe Sakaguchi knew something they didn't when it comes to this stuff."

How ya doing, buddy?

I would hardly describe SE as losing consumer confidence. Sure, those of you who pay attention to the career paths of their employees and wish their lives away waiting for another FFVII might be wary but as Enk said, they're in the business of making money, not catering to obsessives and "Hard core" gamers (Such a contradiction in terms that phrase).

They churn out FF cash-ins because that's what the majority of the game buying public want and that's how they make their money. It seems to me that some people here are mistaking businessmen for artists...

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Shin

I would hardly describe SE as losing consumer confidence. Sure, those of you who pay attention to the career paths of their employees and wish their lives away waiting for another FFVII might be wary but as Enk said, they're in the business of making money, not catering to obsessives and "Hard core" gamers (Such a contradiction in terms that phrase).

Which was my response to GoldfishX with regards to KH and FF selling well, despite not being 10/10 products. But they have been losing customers over the years since VII, and if they want to reverse this trend they'll need to try something else. I'll find the all-time sales chart I'm citing in a second.

Here's it is This is for Japan mind you, but you can see how their sales have slipped considerably since VII.

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They churn out FF cash-ins because that's what the majority of the game buying public want and that's how they make their money. It seems to me that some people here are mistaking businessmen for artists...

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Not really, as there are quite a few games that sell better than either of those and they're by no means "masterpieces". SE seems to be giving folks what they want, that's all (and people buy it).

They do this even though they'll wind up pumping out formulaic titles that makes a small niche avoid their titles.

Pretty much, and even though their sales for the series are lackluster compared to their golden age, they still sell like hotcakes. It's probably why we never got another Einhander.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Shin

I would hardly describe SE as losing consumer confidence. Sure, those of you who pay attention to the career paths of their employees and wish their lives away waiting for another FFVII might be wary but as Enk said, they're in the business of making money, not catering to obsessives and "Hard core" gamers (Such a contradiction in terms that phrase).

They churn out FF cash-ins because that's what the majority of the game buying public want and that's how they make their money. It seems to me that some people here are mistaking businessmen for artists...

And you can't also tell me games like DoC didn't ruffle a few feathers (casual or otherwise) and that a number of people (casual or otherwise) aren't sick of what what they're doing. It's actually pretty common even when I pop into Gamestop to take a few jabs at how they operate ("So how many Final Fantasy games are on the release list THIS month?"). They'll continue to sell...There's no doubt about that. But at some point, maybe people will want something more than an "average" game. With rising development costs, they can't afford to be shrinking their fanbase, casual or otherwise.

I mean, look at what happened when people discovered that Tomb Raider or the Twisted Metal (between 2 and Black) series wasn't that good...Or PS3...Over 3 million served, but it's hard to consider it a rousing success yet.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I think some of the drop in sales is due to saturation of the market as well. Obviously things were different in the US but here in England, when FFVII came out there were literally no more than five other rpgs available on the Playstation. For a while I was the proud owner of every single rpg available in PAL format on the PS and still had plenty of time to play through each before the next came out.

These days though, despite PAL being an unpopular option for rpg makers, there's still fucking loads to choose from which enables gamers to be a bit more picky. Essentially, it's not that earlier Square games were better than the current lot so much as there's better alternatives now so people are increasingly looking at other games.

I'll admit I don't really understand all this Nomura business. I ain't the type to read the credits at the end of games and couldn't tell you who designed or directed any of the games I like. I pick games based on the opinions of people who've played them (One advantage of our shitty release dates here) and on the strength of earlier games in a series. I'll always buy Suikoden games because I've enjoyed them all so far. Likewise, I bought FFXII because I liked the earlier ones. I personally reckon IX was the best and X was let down by an over reliance on levelling up to beat the tougher bosses and some truly terrible voice acting (You'd think with the time delay for a European release they could dub over the American accents along with dubious pronounciations).

With this new series, for people like me a FF connection would probably be a good thing to be honest...

FELIPE NO

First screens and artwork for Last Remnant that came from the SE conference:




-Using Unreal Engine
-Story and setting is medieval mixed with more Sci-Fi and Fantasy.
-Active Battle system similiar to FFXII (and also looks similiar to Drakengard and even Dynasty Warriors)
-Simultaneous release in the US and Japan on both the PS3 and 360

How ya doing, buddy?

wow the artworks is nice! who's the character designer btw?

I hope they will make a good gameplay out of this (not like drakengard or dynasty warrior)

How ya doing, buddy?

Oh no, I see a morale bar.

Dynasty Warriors anyone?

There's nowhere I can't reach.