[Movie] The Dark Knight (Batman Begins Sequel)

Almost anyone could look like Joker given everything Hollywood has done in regards to make-up. It is nice, though, that Ledger has curly hair. In all honesty, Ledger really wouldn't have to say anything. They could just get Hamill to do a voice-over... {sigh}

Didn't they originally plan on having Bob Hoskins to play Penguin? Picking Hoffman seems like a small step backwards.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Acro-nym

Didn't they originally plan on having Bob Hoskins to play Penguin? Picking Hoffman seems like a small step backwards.

How is picking Hoffman a step backwards? He's one of the best actors around these days. Did you see Capote? Bob Hoskins is pretty awesome, but he's got nothing on Hoffman.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm saying that Hoskins looks more the part than Hoffman. And from what I've seen of Hoskins' acting, he seems to have the right demeanor for the part of Penguin.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I'm sure they'll do some cool make up on Hoffman to make him fit the role. Hoffman, IMO, is a much better actor than Hoskins. He's played some very diverse roles throughout his career. Just check out his stats on IMDb... and watch Capote.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by MetheGelfling

I'm sure they'll do some cool make up on Hoffman to make him fit the role. Hoffman, IMO, is a much better actor than Hoskins. He's played some very diverse roles throughout his career. Just check out his stats on IMDb... and watch Capote.

Hoffman is probably a better actor, but if they're reworking the Penguins role into a British gangster type villain, I'd much rather see Hoskins in the role. Has anyone here seen The Long Good Friday or a few episodes of Thick as Thieves? He would be ideal for the role.

It's obvious Hoskins could play the role. All Capote shows is that Hoffman is excellent at being annoyingly effeminate. It needs an actor that fits the part, not an actor who is technically proficient.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

Hoffman is probably a better actor, but if they're reworking the Penguins role into a British gangster type villain, I'd much rather see Hoskins in the role. Has anyone here seen The Long Good Friday or a few episodes of Thick as Thieves? He would be ideal for the role.

Actually I was thinking of his role in Unleashed. It was a great performance and looking from that angle a gangster/mobster Penguin could be very effective in his hands, especially since we known from at least that role he can do the british accent (Needs improvement though).

I also wonder if they're going to play up
the penguin theme or if its going to be more of just a 'nickname', like
how Tony Montana was known as 'Scarface' to pick a well known example.

Quote:

It's obvious Hoskins could play the role. All Capote shows is that Hoffman is excellent at being annoyingly effeminate. It needs an actor that fits the part, not an actor who is technically proficient.

What was his role in Capote? I didn't see the movie nor care to anytime soon, but a brief description would be nice (And yes I know the basics of what the movie is supposed to be about, but it just does not interest me).

Moving on...In regards to the announcement of Heath Ledger as Joker, it felt like an unusual and 'left-field' choice for me. I don't see any real reason why he couldn't play the part, but I also don't see a reason why he Could either. Its like giving Jude Law the part of Tony Stark/Iron Man: there are reasons why he Could be Iron Man and reasons why he can't, and for both roles (Heath's and his) the obvious choices are not either actor.

Let me tell you something, I was _floored_ the day I leared that Mark Hamil voiced the joker in the Batman: TAS (Which was, sadly, around the time that the Batman Beyond Movie was coming out -_-) ...so seeing him AS the joker would be a great touch as others have said.
I'm thinking, Perhaps they could have him voice the Joker in one line or something when the joker gets pissed off or something. I don't know, except that Hamil's joker voice is Perfect.

I also wonder if they'd have a Cameo of Harley Quin, like as a Psychiatrist as Arkham (Remember before she joined Poison Ivy and Joker she WAS going to be a Psychiatrist/Therapist), that would be kinda cool.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

All Capote shows is that Hoffman is excellent at being annoyingly effeminate. It needs an actor that fits the part, not an actor who is technically proficient.

It also shows his range. Going from Truman Capote to his role in Along Came Polly is quite a stretch. With his skills, he should have no problem bringing the Penguin to life.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

...especially since we known from at least that role he can do the british accent (Needs improvement though).

Well let's hope he can do a British accent seeing how he is British :P. Honestly, I think Hoskins is an ideal choice for Penguin. Not to say Hoffman would be bad, but as previously stated, Hoskins has the right looks and presence to pull it off.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

So far the cast is excellent. Wonder how high the budget will be this time.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Do you guys think Ledger will look either like these as Joker?





This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

The first one looks like an Elseworld joker, meaning a Street Punk version, while the second looks TOO photoshopped (I mean they both are to a degree, but at least the first pic hides it decently).

I do like the Yellow Shirt, Black jakcet and green tie, nice touch on that part.

Originally Posted by batgnome

Well let's hope he can do a British accent seeing how he is British :P. Honestly, I think Hoskins is an ideal choice for Penguin. Not to say Hoffman would be bad, but as previously stated, Hoskins has the right looks and presence to pull it off.

Well see I thought he was American, but I suppose that makes it easier. I can see it now:

"Oswald Cobblepot, more well known in mobster circle as 'The Penguin' has a (single) Pet Pengiun that he often uses as a method of torture. Featuring an Umbrella on his business card as his personal logo, he is followed by a trail of beautiful women who make sure he is always at ease. His rival and sometimes Business Partner Carmine Falcone has recently disappered and Cobblepot has enlisted the help of 'Batman' to find it. When Batman refuses, Cobblepot threatens to let loose a homicidal maniac known only as 'The Man who Laughs: The Joker', into Gotham.

Batman resigns to feign an attempt at searching for the mobster, but as we soon find out, Jack Napier, better known as the Joker, the Man who Laughs, has already taken care of Falcone in his own twisted way."

Its just my own take on the possible story-line, but hey who knows?

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Good take, though it doesn't necissarily coincide with the Begins ending. Batman already got the tip-off about Joker from Gordon on the rooftop in the last scene. Which also puts him as his own self-employed baddie.

I'm certainly looking forward to finding out how all these rumoured and confirmed plot points weave together in the final script.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

Batman resigns to feign an attempt at searching for the mobster, but as we soon find out, Jack Napier, better known as the Joker, the Man who Laughs, has already taken care of Falcone in his own twisted way.

In the comics, the Joker's real name has never been revealed. Jack Napier was a creation of the 89' Burton movie.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'd put a whole whack of cash on the idea that Cobblepot is the gangster that hired the Joker (before he was Joker, try to keep up) to become the Red Hood.

Speaking of which, if we get some Red Hood action in this movie, I swear to god I'll geek-gasm all over the place.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by acid

I'd put a whole whack of cash on the idea that Cobblepot is the gangster that hired the Joker (before he was Joker, try to keep up) to become the Red Hood.

Speaking of which, if we get some Red Hood action in this movie, I swear to god I'll geek-gasm all over the place.

You're right on that one

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

See as how the criminal left a calling card of a joker in the previous movie, I seriously doubt The Red Hood will appear at all. It would be nice if they happen to throw that into some kind of backstory, but given the history of comic book movies, don't get your hopes up.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

They could always pull a Batman (1989) and have him use his cards before he gets his acid-dip.

Or, you know, they could use a flashback. I mean they told Bruce's backstory in a flashback, why not Jokers.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Have you ever danced with the devil in pale moonlight? I'm bias for this but I can't help it, Jack Nickelson was a damn good joker. He's old as dirt now. The smile, it has to be the same as the first..if it's some normal human smile but with big teeth, I'm not going to like it. Big ass permanent grin prz. That's a good idea though, putting flashback scenes in there would maximize the dark feel surely.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Question:
Where in the comics was the origin of the Joker closer illuminated?
Was it ever? Did he - as in the movie - get a chemical treatment? How did he become what he is? What drove him mad in the first place...?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by MetheGelfling

In the comics, the Joker's real name has never been revealed. Jack Napier was a creation of the 89' Burton movie.

I could have sworn they used his name as such in one of the origin comics, but whatever. If someone could confirm/deny this that would help out... I'm think though, that 'Jack Napier' may have even been just an alias anyway (For Nickolson's role in the 89 version).

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Tellurian

Question:
Where in the comics was the origin of the Joker closer illuminated?
Was it ever? Did he - as in the movie - get a chemical treatment? How did he become what he is? What drove him mad in the first place...?

His 100% true origin has never been revelead. We know some things, but not all.

About all we know is that he fell into a vat of chemicals, and got his well known appearance. Everything else is pretty much speculation.

However the most commonly accepted origin for the character is the one written by Alan Moore for 1988's "Batman; The Killing Joke". It tells that the Joker was a man who quit his job to persue his dream of being a comedian, however unsucessfully. With a pregnant wife, and knowing he couldn't cut it as a comedian, he agreed the rob the chemical plant he used to work at. The night before the robbery, he was approached by a police officer and told his wife and unborn child had died in a fire at their apartment. Distraught, he tried to back out of the plan, but the gangsters wouldn't let him. Everytime the gangsters recruited someone new to help them rob a place they would force them to wear a red hood. They told the victims it was to hide their identity, but in actuality it was to pin the crime on the victim as the criminal mastermind. As they robbed the plant, the police and Batman showed up. Joker panicked at the sight of Batman and dove into a vat of chemicals. A few miles down river, he washed up on shore, and when he removed his mask he saw that the chemicals had bleached his skin white, deformed his smile, and turned his hair green. This, his fright at his encounter with Batman, the death of his family, and everything else going on in his life seemed to turn him insane. He became the Joker.

While that is the most accepted origin, Joker says himself in the story that he often remembers different versions, and "if I have to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!".

Other origins have had him; being a sociopath as a child, torturing and murdering animals and enjoying listening to his father beat his mother. Being abused and eventually killing his father. Being the son of one of Batman's friends Dr. Leslie Thomas. And being an already well established criminal.

Like I said, the Alan Moore story is the most accepted and usually the one to go by. That being said though, his exact origin is still up in the air.

I for one hope we never really find out.

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

I could have sworn they used his name as such in one of the origin comics, but whatever. If someone could confirm/deny this that would help out... I'm think though, that 'Jack Napier' may have even been just an alias anyway (For Nickolson's role in the 89 version).

He has been referred as Jack or Mr.Napier (which was created for the movie) as sort of a tongue in cheek nod to the movie, but it's doubtful that is infact his real name.

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Originally Posted by acid

However the most commonly accepted origin for the character is the one written by Alan Moore for 1988's "Batman; The Killing Joke". It tells that the Joker was a man who quit his job to persue his dream of being a comedian, however unsucessfully. With a pregnant wife, and knowing he couldn't cut it as a comedian, he agreed the rob the chemical plant he used to work at. The night before the robbery, he was approached by a police officer and told his wife and unborn child had died in a fire at their apartment. Distraught, he tried to back out of the plan, but the gangsters wouldn't let him. Everytime the gangsters recruited someone new to help them rob a place they would force them to wear a red hood. They told the victims it was to hide their identity, but in actuality it was to pin the crime on the victim as the criminal mastermind. As they robbed the plant, the police and Batman showed up. Joker panicked at the sight of Batman and dove into a vat of chemicals. A few miles down river, he washed up on shore, and when he removed his mask he saw that the chemicals had bleached his skin white, deformed his smile, and turned his hair green. This, his fright at his encounter with Batman, the death of his family, and everything else going on in his life seemed to turn him insane. He became the Joker.

In the original origin, The Red Hood attempted to rob a chemical plant. At one point, he becomes surrounded by Batman and Robin on a catwalk (kind of like in the movie... with the addition of Robin). With no way out, he jumps into a chemical basin and swims away, able to breath because of the design of The Red Hood helmet.

A later story (published a few years before The Killing Joke) claims that Batman found the Red Hood costume washed ashore, ditched by Joker after his chemical bath.

Given the continuity shifts in DC, believe whatever you want to believe.

FELIPE NO

I remain wonderously skeptical with the casting. Yes, I wanted Hamill too - not only because he is the Joker but because there now seems to be an age casting problem with this movie. Throwing Ryan Phillippe in just makes it sound like we're shooting from the hip to the 90210 crowd for pretty boys. This isn't saying Ryan isn't a good actor - but the aged involved is stupid. The Joker should be older - considering that he's suppose to be the utter opposite of Batman, why not do the same with their age.

Despite the strength of Batman Begins, lets see where this goes. Not everything is as fortunate as Spider Man 2.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I don't want another old Joker like the first Batman, I say in the 30's is fine.

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Originally Posted by acid

However the most commonly accepted origin for the character is the one written by Alan Moore for 1988's "Batman; The Killing Joke".

Unless your name is Alex Ross

How ya doing, buddy?