Learning 3D Animation

I'd like to learn up on 3D animation, but I'm not sure how I should go about doing it. If I studied independently, I would save money and have a flexible schedule, but I don't know which modeling/animation software to choose, or which textbooks to study from. If I took a course at a school, I would have a great curriculum laid out for me, but it would cost a lot more money, and I probably couldn't fit it into my schedule unless I took some online classes.

Anyone have any suggestions for me? Note, I work a full time job, and in total, it takes up at least 10 hours of my day when factoring in travel time and breaks. So if I'm doing school, I'd need to do it for just a couple hours on weeknights and/or anytime on the weekends. If I'm studying independently, I need some damn good direction.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I would say school is the best, but under a full-time working condition, no. 3D animation takes up a LOT of time, not just in creating the stuff, but rendering it as well. Depending on how big the project gets, it can take hours just to let it sit and render.

I took one class for it in college and we used a program called Cinema 4D. It's pretty average I think for a 3D program. The best of the best is probably Maya though. As for books, I'm not sure, but I do know there are tutorials online, along with some previously made objects that you can download to play aaround with. Whichever way you go, good luck!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Maya is my recommended animation software. You can do pretty much anything with it, and is the industry standard for CGI, although I really have no idea how much luck you'd have teaching yourself compared to academic instruction.

The interface is the most daunting thing in the universe, but it's an extremely intuitive piece of software:
Screenshot 1
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My avatar and sig image (and the videos the sig points to) were created in Maya.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm currently going to Collins College in Phoenix, AZ. My most recently class WAS 3D Animation, and we used Autodesk 3DS Max 8 for our software. For Learning the program we were given the 3D Max 8 bible as well as in-class lessons, so I've learned a lot as a result of the class.

My best advice is to first decide what program you want be using. 3DS Max 8 is a powerful and versatile program, but it is expensive, even with my Education discount. Some programs are Free but they are limited in thier support or functionality, but some of them are still quite effective for animation.

Popular Programs to Consider:
3D Studio Max
Animation:Master
Blender
Cinema 4D
Lightwave
Maya
TrueSpace

Consider what you want to use the program for (Animation has varying uses, and it would be good to research the most widely used applications).
There are some books you can find @ Borders/Barnes & Noble which are also great sources of tutorials and introduction to the programs, but they cost money as well (Much less then a class, but still).

Second after you have decided on the program is to look for tutorials and sample models to work on. Googling the default format of the program and free models will usually bring up relevant results. The tutorials are done similarly: "[Program name] Beginner Tutorials."

Since you'll be working @ your own pace in regards to the tutorials, you can spend as much time as you need

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Cellius

The interface is the most daunting thing in the universe, but it's an extremely intuitive piece of software:

I was going to rip that statement to shreds, but you may be right. I can guarantee you, though, that the most difficult interface to get the hang of is Blender's. There are one or two or three functions mapped to each key, and each Ctrl, Alt, and Shift combinations of each key, and they all do different things under different contexts. If you know what you're doing you can probably do it pretty quickly, but damn. It's a really, really steep learning curve. Not to mention it's incredibly hard to find a decent tutorial that'll help you out there. =)


Anyway, back on topic... The big 3D programs that I know of are Maya (already mentioned, twice), 3ds Max, and Lightwave. There's also Blender (see link above), which is noteworthy for the fact that it's free and open-source, but the saying "you get what you pay for" isn't completely untrue. It's not very user-friendly at all. as a matter of fact, it hates you.

Maya and 3ds Max are the two big ones, but I used Lightwave for a long while and I loved it to death. I was never very good at anything, though, and I never took any classes with it. Maya's got a free student edition (or... at least I know they used to have a student version; but that was years ago...) that lets you do most everything, but IIRC it slaps a huge logo on any renderings you do. There was also GMax, a model/animation tool with most of the capabilities of 3ds Max, sans the ability to render at all. Again, that one might not be around any more; it's been a long while. If you're only interested in animation techniques, then those would be good enough, at least to work with -- you wouldn't be able to render stuff, but you could play it back in realtime and so on.



So the tools are good and all by themselves, but unless you find a good book or you take a course, I'd wager you're going to have a difficult time studying on your own. I tried doing stuff in Lightwave on my own when I was younger, by finding tutorials online and stuff (I never bought a book), and I got pretty far but it never went anywhere. I later took a course (categorized under 'drafting technology'; I never would've found it unless someone mentioned it to me) in 3ds Max, and I learned everything and more in much, much less time. I would recommend, though, since you're working fulltime and it's not like you can push that aside, that you try to find a good book (or two or three) and learn from them when you have the time -- though you'll find that once you get going it's hard to stop. It's a lot of fun, at least for me. ^___^


So then.... I don't have any books to recommend, though. =\ I know there are a lot of talented 3D artists here at GFF, so maybe one of them will see the thread and pop in with some help.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Thanks for the help so far, guys! I figured Maya would get the most recommendation, but I wasn't sure if anything had stolen its place yet.

I'm most interested in modeling first, animation second. It would be great, however, if the software I use has a good skeletal system for modeling characters. Support for physics in animation would also be awesome, if possible.

Would Maya still be a good choice in this case?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

It'd be somewhat nice to know just what exactly you want to do, by which I mean do you want this to be a hobby, or do you intend to eventually make money out of this? For the former, it's likely you can learn by yourself while focusing on a particular program, depending on what you want to do. If you want to eventually make money out of this, then it becomes a bit more complex. I'm by no mean a 3D animator, but from what I've read, if you're ever part of a large project, then it's not so much being able to use a particular piece of software that matters, simply because the software you use will be chosen depending on how well it interacts with the renderer used. Of course we're talking about large projects here, so if you only intend to do things by yourself, even professionaly, then you can essentially take the same path as an amateur.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Devo

Do you have any background in animation first? Like sketching, anatomical modeling, clay sculpting, color and design?

I have experience with traditional art. And I draw almost every day.

But, um, the renderer will take care of things like shading and perspective for you, providing you set up the camera and light sources properly.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by YeOldeButchere

It'd be somewhat nice to know just what exactly you want to do, by which I mean do you want this to be a hobby, or do you intend to eventually make money out of this?

Just a hobby for now, but who knows. I certainly would like to do this professionally if I get good at it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

If it wasn't 6:10am i'd be a bit more expansive; maybe later. People have given you some interesting advice here. What can you afford? That has to be the most important question.

Maya and MAX cost a lot of money. They're both very capable packages but Maya is not what i'd call a good application for the beginner. Now, some will come in here and swear by Maya but they are probably people who have had some form of formal classes in using it. There's a saying that goes: "Maya makes difficult tasks easy, but simple tasks more difficult".

MAX is the program I use the most and is probably easier to pick up; functionally these programs are about equal. Any of these, or another such as Lightwave or even Blender (Blender has staggering fluid-dynamics now, they need to be seen to be believed) will teach you the principles of 3D. These principles are common to virtually all 3D software; the biggest complication is the different interfaces - trying to get the thing you're using to do what you want to do.

If you're worried about the cost of learning, the only real costs you have to incur are those of time (the longer you spend with something the better you'll get) and the initial outlay of purchasing the software, unless you go the free ware route. Most 3D programs come complete with full learning resources so if you don't mind using a compiled help file or PDFs, you don't even need to get a book.

If you want to animate, what is it that you want to animate? People? Machinery? That will dictate what skills you'll need to build up in terms of modelling objects as Devo said. You say you draw so that's good. It is possible to learn to animate without having to model anything at all though. I wouldn't recommend it, but it can be done. Expressive and diligent animation can bring life to something as simple as a twig, a ball, or an angle poise lamp >_>.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Thanks for the info, Ulysses.

Money is not much of a concern for me. I'd be willing to spend a couple thousand just for doing it as a hobby. If I found some excellent classes that fit in with my schedule (and thus giving me creditable experience), I would be willing to spend even more.

Right now I'm interested in modeling characters (human and non-human) the most, but I'd like to try my hand at a bit of everything.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Great post, Ed! I will certainly heed your words.

To answer your question, I think video games are what I would like to be most involved with. But as I said before, I like to try a bit of everything. My only real goal right now is to get enough experience with modeling/animating to I know if it will be something I enjoy, and something I will do well.

Thanks for the info!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Yeah, Ed that was a great post. One thing that I will add as something to consider is that recently Alias (the people who make Maya) was aquired by Autodesk (the creators of 3D Studio Max). Upcoming versions of Maya and Max may start to borrow features from each other and ultimately become interchangeable. However, making the switch from one 3d program to another isn't too difficult as your skills as a modeler will stay the same. My suggestion is to download student trial versions of different programs (or just get the pirated copies of the full version like everybody else does) and mess around with them a bit and go through some tutorials to see how much you like modeling. Also, modeling and animating are a world of difference apart. Another facet of the process that may interest you is character rigging. I'm taking a course in it right now and it's extremely interesting.

Come to think of it, the student trial versions of Maya and other programs are pretty cool, but I would recommend just getting a pirated copy for learning purposes. If you ever want to do some freelance work however, I would definitely purchase a legitimate copy of the software to prevent any legal rammifications. A buddy of mine was talking to a guy from Autodesk as a conference and he told me that they don't seem to mind piracy as long as it's for educational purposes only. (It doesn't make it any more legal, but you get the point.)

Best of luck to you! And you'll defnitely have to post some of your models or animations after you get started.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Since you want to learning modeling and are leaning towards Maya, I strongly recommend Human Anatomy from Freedom of Teach. It's a fantastic DVD that is taught by Tareq Mirza, an VFX artist who has worked on films like Lord of the Rings. The DVD basically shows you how to model an anatomically correct male human while paying attention to mesh flow. The techniques learned here can be applied to low poly modeling and even transfered to other 3D programs. Very useful.

If you want to learn animation, definitely learn the 12 principles of animation. They've been developed and refined since the golden years of Disney and still apply today, even with today's technology. For books on animation; The Animator's Survival Kit is essential to any animator. It's written by Richard Williams, who directed the animated portions to Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Websites to check out are 3Dbuzz which has a wealth of video tutorials on many 3D programs and game engines which are all free to download if you register. CGTalk is a fantastic general CG art community where even industry professionals post. There you can find many more tutorials, links, books and advice for anything CG or art related. However, you'll have to be a bit persistant if you want help, sometimes people will just look over your thread, but are extremely helpful when they do finally post something.

How ya doing, buddy?

Thanks for the input, Gelf and rubber!

Does anyone have any recommended online schools? Also, does it make much of a difference if the physical campus is located with my area or not? I'd like to weigh in all of my options.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

There is a free program that you can tryout which is the best for newbs like us. you can do 3d rendering meshing all that stuff animation coding for video games...i believe it is like gimp but 3d. it may not be maya but it's free which is good for begeners. It's called blender, i just forgot where i got it sorry.

Double Post:
sorry about the double post but here is the websight http://www.blender.org/cms/Home.2.0.html

FELIPE NO

If your doing this on the side as a hobby, you could always just download the programs mentioned for free. So you dont waste thousands on something you might not even enjoy.

I dont condone software piracy in anyway. If you really enjoy it, buy it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I have a friend who's a very successful 3d animator and web designer and he basically taught himself. He learned a lot from various forums (I think SoftImage and 3D Studio Max both have their own forums) and magazines too. He later went off to do a degree in the subject but was already much better than his tutors so skipped the Batchelors and got a Masters.

To be fair though, that was the result of about 8 years self teaching so it's not much of a quick fix.

edit: Don't you think you might have been better off putting this in CC?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Another good video tutorial site would be http://www.lynda.com/ and covers alot of famous software. The videos are free but with a subscription you can get some extra's. So far I have never had the need to subscribe as all that is available is enough already.
I use 3D Studio MAX myself for game development and creation of random art but it's more of a free-time hobby thing. Other animation software I have tried are Maya, Blender and XSI but I feel most at home with 3dsmax. Just choose the software you work best with, you can produce top quality with all of them

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Cellius

Maya is my recommended animation software. You can do pretty much anything with it, and is the industry standard for CGI, although I really have no idea how much luck you'd have teaching yourself compared to academic instruction.

The interface is the most daunting thing in the universe, but it's an extremely intuitive piece of software:
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2
Screenshot 3
Screenshot 4

My avatar and sig image (and the videos the sig points to) were created in Maya.

Man, that looks just like UnrealEd.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by *AkirA*

If your doing this on the side as a hobby, you could always just download the programs mentioned for free. So you dont waste thousands on something you might not even enjoy.

I dont condone software piracy in anyway. If you really enjoy it, buy it.

I totaly agree and this program lets you try it for free no piracy included it's just like gimp like i said before except 3d. For all kinds of models and tutorials you can try this awesome 3d comunity. www.3dm3.com

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

Does anyone have any recommended online schools?

What kind of animation or modeling are you planning to do again? ..Games, Motion Picture (like creatures in Harry Potter), or Feature Animation (Pixar)?

-Gaming has more limited modeling and animation like low poly characters and limited cycled animation (Though technology in games is getting better, action in games is looking less limited.)
-Motion Picture Animation strives on realism. Capturing all the little nuances that go on with your body. I had an instructor, Linda Bell, that worked on Yoda for Episode 1. And little details like slight jiggling in the ears makes a big difference on screen.
-Feature Animation is more simplified with movements and exaggerated. Acting is one of the most important parts of it too.

If you're going for 3d feature animation, I'd suggest Animation Mentor for your online classes. Everyone there is very talented, which makes it quite overwhelming and stressful sometimes if you're planning to find an animation job.

Just note that the animation/games industy is getting flooded with lots of competition, mainly from overseas like.... Korea..

Originally Posted by Devo

Ed had online courses during his first and second semester (he goes to Academy of Art).

I had a feeling you went to AAU from reading your long post.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I have always used TrueSpace or 3D animator by Macromedia.
I have not done any animation for a long time, so I cannot say what would be the best these days.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I've moved this thread to the Creator's Cafe. I should have probably put it here in the first place, but I always forget about this forum.

Anyway, thanks for the further replies. I have begun checking out some of the suggested resources, and I bought "The Animator's Survival Kit" (very cool). I'll reply here again when I've made further progress on starting this.

FELIPE NO