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Welcome to the Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis. |
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Banned |
So you are saying its good to never look at the end result or what Lincoln did but lets just go back in time and fail to understand how times were back then. maybe we should hold court and find Lincoln guilty of hate speech and racism too right?
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
500 Years Later
This was a quote by Lincoln on Oct. 13th, 1858 on a debate with Steven A. Douglas used for the documentary 500 Years Later
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. ...notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence--the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas that he is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color--perhaps not in intellectual and moral endowments; but in the right to eat bread without leave of anybody else which his own hand earns [the Republican version of what the other rights amount to?], he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas and the equal of every other man. Over the years through primary, high school, and college, the history is usually tailored in a way to avoid the negative view of Lincoln. For me, Lincoln was great for what he did for the country but also horrible (understated) for what he didn't do. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Last edited by SpaceMonk; Aug 22, 2008 at 01:06 PM.
Reason: forgot to say who said it
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I was speaking idiomatically. |
The first thing is that Lincoln - first and foremost - was an elected politician. He had to get up and say certain things that were "expected" of him. That is - if he were to get up in front of people during a debate and say BLACKS ARE EQUAL IN EVERY WAY he'd have been viewed as no better than John Brown. No one, and I mean no one, gets up and demands sociological reformations of that calibur and expect to remain in office or ever be taken seriously again. Even if Lincoln wanted to free the slaves and make them equal to Whites - he knew it couldn't happen. This is *exactly* what he means when he mentions "I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality". It wasn't that he didn't want Blacks to be equal - its that he knew it can't happen because people are people and people are prejudiced in everything they do. To this day - in terms of social status - blacks *still* are not equal to whites in many ways. Yes, you have both races on either side of the poverty line, but which one stereotypically lives in the ghettos and the poorer sections? Lincoln, in his incredible wisdom, realized that change was a gradual, slow process. America was a struggling nation and to remove the slaves from the South would create an economical disaster, moral implications or not. Looking back, we can see that Lincoln realized that he had to be very careful in the balancing act between what he could do and what he'd be damned for. For that, he did an outstanding job. How ya doing, buddy? |
I don't think surmising that Lincoln was a crafty dude constitutes a real interpretation of his character or a credit to his legacy. People can't stomach the idea that Lincoln could be kind of racist and also an abolitionist, but intellectual inconsistencies aren't uncommon for great Americans.
Jefferson was the biggest slave-owning hypocrite the country has ever known, who unlike some other slave owning founders didn't emancipate his on his death. Yet Jefferson still set a precedent for man's universal right in the States and had no illusions about his own status as a slave owner. Lincoln was a free soiler before he was an abolitionist, and while some people like to speculate that he began to increasingly view blacks as equal it's not important. What is important is that what was accomplished during Lincoln's presidency, and by no small part due to his direct involvement, are the most important achievements in American history. Even Lincoln dieing at the time he did was arguably for the best depending on how you view his Reconstruction plan. Trying to think of Lincoln a secret darkie lover tries to ignore the fact that he was human and a product of his times. Even John Brown, for all his admirable qualities was nonetheless a murderer. The fact that these people could do so much good despite being so seriously flawed is what I feel makes them great. How ya doing, buddy? |
huh?!
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
don't flame me bro
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Banned |
You can go back in time and judge people based on their actions however you are ignorant if you hold them to the same standards as people are held today. Lincoln even back then was more civilized than people in countries across the world. Look at the savage parts of Africa or areas in the middle east.
What Lincoln did for the US was a good thing despite what he thought or felt and for that we should honor him. I'm sure if we found out MLK never received a real doctorate and was given an honorary one or that he plagiarized speeches that he made we would not look down on him due to his actions. Quick brady delete this because it goes against your hatefull skewed view of the USA This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
I don't want anybody thinking I'm a moderator or anything. I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I love Abe Lincoln.
My favourite thing he ever did was lead the raisin rebellion in rock opera form. JFK helped too. I was speaking idiomatically. John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD.
Last edited by No. Hard Pass.; Aug 28, 2008 at 02:07 AM.
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"They're not gonna crush our freedom!"
-Captain Lavender (Abe Lincoln's Clone) What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
-Captain Lavender(Abe Lincoln's Clone) FELIPE NO John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
Banned |
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
Not just me, right? Jam it back in, in the dark. |
He just didn't "get" the internet.
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
I don't even sit in an armchair when I type out my Clone High references on the internets.
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
Epic fail You've ruined so many dreams Deni, so many dreams ;__; I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
I know. I bring an end to all things wonderful and good and replace them with horrible truth.
I am a ruiner. I am why we can't have nice things. How ya doing, buddy? John Mayer just asked me, personally, through an assistant, to sing backup on his new CD. |
Obviously we must erect an armchair of epic proportions. From which you can preach the truth. Lucifer might get involved.
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Carob Nut |
I say he was a great president because he was able to steer the country through a time of war that split the nation in two.
FELIPE NO |
So anybody notice all the proud Abe Lincoln memorial editorial cartoons after Obama's victory, I'm pretty sure Lincoln would be more stupefied than ecstatic.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
I'm only enamored about Lincoln right now because of how fucking awesome he is in Fallout 3. =)
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
I also enjoy using pennies
Most amazing jew boots |