[PS2] Final Fantasy XII

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

Wow. I just finished the game, and Wow is the word that comes to mind.

Several impressions & notes:

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Vayne is very archtypical of a villain and I was not at all surprised when he 'transformed', although seeing him transform into his final form via CG Movie was a bit unexpected. Easiest Final Boss ever though. I wasn't even Level. 50 yet. Sure, he WAS a tough opponent, but I've had more trouble with some of the marks, rather then him. I like how he was all DBZ in his attacks.

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]Yeah his paling + the specials he did really dragged the fight on. If he had done none of that, I would've wasted him within 10-15 seconds. Seriously, if my team can take down a little over 50 million points of HP in 2:10-15 minutes, of course I won't have a problem with him.

I was half expecting him to drop a Spirit Bomb or something.

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It ALMOST seems to me that Vayne was a villain only because the story required a villain, I didn't see any real motivation behind his whole 'taking over the empire' (In fact it would have been better if his motive had been pure 'taking-over-the-world' mentality, instead of hounding in on Dr. Cid's "Release history from the gods" spiel. I like how I also have his haircut, only not nearly a dark a shade as his was. XD

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To sum it up rather quickly: He wanted to be the next Dynast-King, like Raithwall was. Venat helped him along because it meant humans gaining even more power and autonomy from the Occuria.

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The end movie was simply a thing is beauty and was refreshing that we got actual closure while still leaving opening for sequels (Revenant Wings, the whole Tactics universe), which is very hard to do.

Due to accidently reading spoilers I knew that Gabranth was Basch's brother, but it was still nice to see him take up his brother's mantle.

Question: If a year has passed between Baltheir doing the whole 'leading man saves the day' thing, and to where Penelo has this Gypsie outfit, howcome only NOW is the 'Corination' about to take place (In a month)? Seems a little too convenient or somesuch.

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Yeah, I don't know what that was all about. But maybe due to what happened, pulling troops back, paper work, etc... Honestly, I think there were better things to do than that once the hubub was over.

I was... mildly disturbed by Ashe's "feelings" towards Basch. Shit was out of left field, and I think whatever was cut (a lot) must've shown more of this. Still creepy, given the age difference.

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Something else that came to mind afterwards now, why didn't the Occuria come down and smack some ass on the humans if they were so hellbent on 'shaping human history'? I guess its just a suspense of disbelief thing. Once Venat disappeared or transfered himself to Vayne, the Occuria became a non-issue? Ahh well, just some thoughts.

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The bestiary entries tell us a lot about them. They've had loads of races and even their own creations rebel against them. Several entries mention why they created and now live in Giruvegan, and their meeting with Ashe let's us know of their intentions.

Basically, instead of risking getting directly attacked and challenged, they manipulate the world via the nethicite shards by selecting a few to guide history how they want. That was Venat's main sticking point: How can you govern and rule properly if you're beyond time's influence, so far removed from the changes your decisions bring?

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One final note on the ending, unless I think of other details: Funny how one minute there was a "ZOMG TORNADO" and the next it was just "ZOMG TOWER OF AIRSHIP". They also confused me for a minute because they talked about the BahaMUTT like it was some sort of fearsome Esper, but it turned out to be a fearsome Air Fortress, still fearsome, but odd they way they talked about it at the top after defeating Dr. Cid.

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Seeing as how most of what was involved with Nethicite were beasts and monsters, and Cid's exaggerations, who could blame them. BTW, I thought it was going to be an Esper too.

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I had a great time playing the game, and maybe next week when I have free time I'll head back to go after the marks and stuff (I particularly want to fight Gilgamesh and get the other Espers).

A couple notes about the game in general:

- I REALLY like the design of Archades, and I got a vibe of "Courscant from Star Wars meets Art Deco",
very unusual for a Final Fantasy game, much less the high-fantasy world of Ivalice, to feature such
a Modern looking metropolis. Every other place in the game looked like it would be there naturally,
but while Archades did fit it, it just struck me as a bit unordinary. Perhaps the designers really liked
the idea of the city and so thats why the place is so vibrant.

- The whole destruction of Nabudis and Nabradia was confusing and I don't think
they explained it well enough in the beginning. Only when Reddas confessed to being
behind the city's destruction did it make sense.

- Squeenix seems to like the idea of either "1000 Years" or "2 Years" later on, as Advent Children
is two years after FFVII, and DoC 3 years (1 year after AC), and FFX-2 is 2 years after FFX, and
the opening of FFXII takes place 2 years before the game-proper (Meaning not the tutorial section).
1000 Years is the time after the War of the Magi which is when FFVI takes place, and 1000 years after
Zanarkand gets destroyed, FFX takes place. Just something I noticed.

Also, are there any HIGH QUALITY screencaps or videos of the ending, including the drawings played during the Credits proper (I particularly got a giggle out of Al-Cid and his quad maids, as well as the Baltheir and Fran paired drawing) ?

About the drawing, I think I have it. I'd love to have the one with

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father & son in it. That was a particularly cute/sad one.

Nice observation there, SE definitely has an affinity for massive leaps in time, though I think it's just to have loads of backstory ready.



How ya doing, buddy?

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Basically, instead of risking getting directly attacked and challenged, they manipulate the world via the nethicite shards by selecting a few to guide history how they want. That was Venat's main sticking point: How can you govern and rule properly if you're beyond time's influence, so far removed from the changes your decisions bring?

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I've been thinking about this, and I still don't get it. There is nobody that could possibly stand up to them. They could probably lay waste to the entire planet, if they wanted. What are they afraid of, exactly? Humanity's development? That won't be a problem if they keep judging them every few centuries, like they have been. Certainly, they must be pretty pissed at Ashe for disobeying them. Why not smite her with a lightning bolt?

Something just doesn't add up here. If Venat can leave Giruvegan and affect the world directly, certainly the others can, and they could do it with impunity, too.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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WOW!!! that sux....yeah I was expecting something more. Hey have you seen the previews for FF XIII? It looks Bad Azz. Its supposed to come out 12/1/07

That sounds like a placeholder date. Remember, this is Square Enix we're talking about. We probably won't get FFXIII until 2008 or the middle of 2009. I wouldn't even put it in your radar until the middle of next year.

Hopefully I'm wrong though. But we all know about S-E's famous delays.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Angry Willow

That sounds like a placeholder date. Remember, this is Square Enix we're talking about. We probably won't get FFXIII until 2008 or the middle of 2009. I wouldn't even put it in your radar until the middle of next year.

Hopefully I'm wrong though. But we all know about S-E's famous delays.

actually that date comes from ebgames.com . My game "Heavely Sword" comes out in June. I even called the store to find out. But right now thats the date.

Most amazing jew boots

Yeah, that's definitely an EBGames date. Take it with six grains of salt. They do that for pre-orders. They have consistently been known to give dates like that and be wrong.

Since S-E hasn't announced a real date yet, there's a 100% probability that 12/1/07 is wrong. In order for it to come out in December, S-E would have had to released the game by now, considering localization takes a good 6-8 months at the minimum).

I'm pumped as hell for FFXIII, though.

I'm amazed at how quickly I got the Sagitarrius Gems and the Beastlord Horns to make the Sagittarius Bow. That was good advice, Metal Sphere. It took me 30 minutes to get them both, tops.

FELIPE NO

I remember that when I had a copy of FFXII on reserve through EB games, it ended up not coming in until a month or so after they had said it would. But like everyone else it would be awesome if there were a new FF coming out before the end of the year.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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I've been thinking about this, and I still don't get it. There is nobody that could possibly stand up to them. They could probably lay waste to the entire planet, if they wanted. What are they afraid of, exactly? Humanity's development? That won't be a problem if they keep judging them every few centuries, like they have been. Certainly, they must be pretty pissed at Ashe for disobeying them. Why not smite her with a lightning bolt?

Something just doesn't add up here. If Venat can leave Giruvegan and affect the world directly, certainly the others can, and they could do it with impunity, too.

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Anything that encroaches on their power or limits it in anyway is seen as a threat. That right there would explain the seemingly endless line of challengers to the Occuria as well as their hiding away in Giruvegan.

Notice, they have the puzzle in the Feywood, the gate of fire, the guardian that you fight, the gates within Giruvegan and an imprisoned Esper on top of that.

The point of the city was to keep folks out. Everything the Occuria do, they've done by proxy as to not get targeted/attacked directly. Venat was an exception, since its behavior was the complete opposite of the others. All that mattered to Venat was that its brethren would not have control over the world again.

NP, Angry Willow. I thought the Beastlord Horn bit was trickier until I found out you could get 3 from Catoblepas (1), Humbaba Mistant (2) and Fenrir (3) with ease. Oh, and as AW said, that's a placeholder date. There's also some for Odin Sphere, which is officially "Late Spring 2007".

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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But here's what I don't get. There isn't anybody left who poses even a remote threat to them. If the Entite entries are anything to go by, they probably could have wiped out all of Archadia in an instant. Just like that. Nobody would have ever seen it coming, and nobody would have any reason to suspect them, because nobody knows who or what they are, or could even detect their presence.

If anybody did somehow find out, just smite the crap out of them. They would be helpless, like a newborn kitten.

Here's how things would have gone down if I had been Gerun.

Ashe: I am no false saint for you to use!
Me: Oh yeah? Well then how about this.

*Random party member explodes violently, showering the area with blood spray and body parts.*

Me: How 'bout them apples?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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But here's what I don't get. There isn't anybody left who poses even a remote threat to them. If the Entite entries are anything to go by, they probably could have wiped out all of Archadia in an instant. Just like that. Nobody would have ever seen it coming, and nobody would have any reason to suspect them, because nobody knows who or what they are, or could even detect their presence.

If anybody did somehow find out, just smite the crap out of them. They would be helpless, like a newborn kitten.

Here's how things would have gone down if I had been Gerun.

Ashe: I am no false saint for you to use!
Me: Oh yeah? Well then how about this.

*Random party member explodes violently, showering the area with blood spray and body parts.*

Me: How 'bout them apples?

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I don't think you understand, PN. They're cowards. You're simply applying your way of dealing with potential threats, rather than trying to see it from their eyes. I've met folks who at the slightest sign of their losing influence/power/etc start to scheme and manipulate. And when confronted directly? They're often indignant and pretty damn close to violent.

It's the same here with the Occuria. Surely you can't forget how they reacted when Venat's name (the one who is empowering those they seek to control) was spoken? I bet the Gods had the same reaction when Prometheus gave folks fire and what not.

=)

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

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I understand, I just think it's BS, that's all. It doesn't make any sense. Beings possessed of such extraordinary power couldn't possibly be afraid of anything, especially not lowly humes. The beings that created the world, created (and defeated) the espers, and laid waste to said world several times, and are nigh untouchable in combat are afraid? I could understand such fear if they were actually weaklings and didn't want people to find out, but they're not weak!

They let Venat teach the humes how to make Nethicite! Why? There are five of them (Gerun, Angel Wings, Fatty #1, Fatty #2, and Scales, as I call them) only one of Venat. They should have stopped him! And they let Reddas destroy the Sun-Cryst! Gerun was right there! (In the form of Rasler's ghost.) He could have killed them all in an instant! Well, all of the humes at least.

To me it is a very big inconsistency and doesn't make any logical sense. Nobody is that cowardly, especially when they're the most powerful beings in the world, by far. Perhaps not truly untouchable, but definitely effectively so.

Maybe the Occuria will make an appearance in Revenant Wings. That would be so cool.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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I understand, I just think it's BS, that's all. It doesn't make any sense. Beings possessed of such extraordinary power couldn't possibly be afraid of anything, especially not lowly humes. The beings that created the world, created (and defeated) the espers, and laid waste to said world several times, and are nigh untouchable in combat are afraid? I could understand it if they were actually really weak and were only bluffing, but it's clear that is not the case.

They let Venat teach the humes how to make Nethicite! Why? There are five of them (Gerun, Angel Wings, Fatty #1, Fatty #2, and Scales, as I call them) only one of Venat. They should have stopped him! And they let Reddas destroy the Sun-Cryst! Gerun was right there! (In the form of Rasler's ghost.) He could have killed them all in an instant! Well, all of the humes at least.

To me it is a very big inconsistency and doesn't make any logical sense. Nobody is that cowardly, especially when they're the most powerful beings in the world, by far. Perhaps not truly untouchable, but definitely effectively so.

Maybe the Occuria will make an appearance in Revenant Wings. That would be so cool.

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Again, you're applying what you think they should have done, rather than what they did. Again, it comes down to how much experience and exposure you've had to people who see power as a zero-sum game. People like that think that if you're gaining power, that means they're losing it in some way/shape or form.

It's paranoid and leads to irrational behavior like what the Occuria have shown. Some could also say they're afraid of others gaining power because who knows what they would do with it? They could pass judgement (and rightfully so) on them as the manipulative and destructive little shits that they are.

It makes sense when you apply this irrationality to them, it neatly explains their behavior and failure to go about what you have put out there.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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But their paranoia just plain doesn't make sense when you consider their level of power compared to everything else in all of Ivalice.

Oh well, I guess I'll give up trying to understand it. Personally, I think it is a serious story blunder.

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Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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But their paranoia just plain doesn't make sense when you consider their level of power compared to everything else in all of Ivalice.

Oh well, I guess I'll give up trying to understand it. Personally, I think it is a serious story blunder.

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Compared to what else in Ivalice? They're holed up in their ivory tower for heaven's (lol?) sake. We already know that they were almost taken down by their creations (the Espers) and that they are fallible even without physical forms (Shemhazai knows their weaknesses). The Nu Mou also seriously challenged their power before, as Ashe mentioned in that legend.

After those, they're rightfully afraid to get into another confrontation. I don't know, I just think you're making them out to be omnipotent and invincible (or beyond pettiness/stupidity/cowardice).

And if this is a story blunder, several venerated entries in the series have far shallower antagonists and stories.

How ya doing, buddy?

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The Nu Mou also seriously challenged their power before, as Ashe mentioned in that legend.

About that. Where did you see that at? Looking through the game script, the only time the Nu Mou are ever mentioned is here:

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Fran: In vainglory they [the espers] arose, shouting challenges at the Gods. But prevail
they did not. Their doom it was to walk the Mist until time’s end. A Legend of [that is, from]
the Nu Mou.

I've done all of the sidequests and defeated all of the marks; I never saw Ashe say anything about the Nu Mou.

As for omnipotence, I do not believe in such a thing. I simply believe that during the events of the game, they are the most powerful beings in Ivalice, by a pretty good margin. Certainly, they must know this. There is no reason to be afraid. Any real threats to them have already been delt with.

To summarize:

1. I do not think that they are omnipotent, or invulnerable.
2. I do believe that they have weaknesses. (The game even says so.)
3. I do believe that they possess great power.
4. I believe that during the events of the game, there is no entity or group of entities that approaches their power, assuming the powers described in the beastiary entries are indeed theirs.
5. Any beings that were a threat to them (such as the Espers) have already been dispatched. (Although beings such as Yazmat are extremely difficult to defeat, this is done for purposes of gameplay. In reality, I think it's safe to assume that the Occuria are even stronger, especially when you consider the Beastiary entry about the God and Dragon.)

That leaves only the minor, mortal races of Ivalice to oppose them. Races that, on their own, are virtually powerless to do anything to anyone. What are they going to do to the Occuria? Shoot missles at them? Use machine guns? I suppose it is possible that manufacted Nethicite could have been used against them somehow, but they could have easily nipped that in the bud with absolutely no threat to themselves. Certainly, they knew this.

IMO, the only being that truly poses any kind of threat to them would be Zodiark. After all, his authority is absolute.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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About that. Where did you see that at? Looking through the game script, the only time the Nu Mou are ever mentioned is here:



I've done all of the sidequests and defeated all of the marks; I never saw Ashe say anything about the Nu Mou.

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Raithwall's tomb, IIRC she remarked as to what happened to the Nu Mou. I think it was right after Fran mentioned that, and before she realized that Belias was the actual treasure.

Didn't you think it was rather odd that there far less Nu Mou than even the reclusive Viera?

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As for omnipotence, I do not believe in such a thing. I simply believe that during the events of the game, they are the most powerful beings in Ivalice, by a pretty good margin. Certainly, they must know this. There is no reason to be afraid. Any real threats to them have already been delt with.

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I'd say you missed a big reason as to why the Occuria were baiting Ashe with Rasler's visage. They did have a very real threat forming, especially with one of their own assisting them in their rise.

That's why they wanted Ashe to use the nethicite shards to spare a few and kill the rest. I'm definitely not a misanthrope, and as that Viera on Mt Bur-Omisace said, together humes will fight to the end are much stronger than alone.

Machines that can manipulate mist flows at will (absorb and release), ships that can fly in jagd (gaining access to Giruvegan potentially), and nethicite-infused soldiers/machines. On top of that, just having manufacted nethicite could absorb powerful mist attacks. All this, in about 6 year's time. Given more time and the technology would spread and become even more effective.

I'd say there was a genuine threat there, though the Occuria failed in trying to regain control via the stones this time around (as they did before with Raithwall).

Edit: Heh, good point about Zodiark. I'd say they're the most powerful, sure, but not untouchable.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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I don't think you recall correctly, then. I'm on my second play through of the game, and I just beat Raithwall's tomb. Ashe said nothing like that. It certainly doesn't appear in any of the game scripts of translations on GameFAQs. Here is what Ashe says:

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Ashe: There is a legend concerning the King and a demon. A young Raithwall supposedly slew the demon and was recognized by the gods. After that the demon had to be a loyal servant to Raithwall.

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Machines that can manipulate mist flows at will (absorb and release), ships that can fly in jagd (gaining access to Giruvegan potentially), and nethicite-infused soldiers/machines. On top of that, just having manufacted nethicite could absorb powerful mist attacks. All this, in about 6 year's time. Given more time and the technology would spread and become even more effective.

I suppose. That's why they should have blown them all up before things got out of hand!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Angry Willow

Yeah, that's definitely an EBGames date. Take it with six grains of salt. They do that for pre-orders. They have consistently been known to give dates like that and be wrong.

Since S-E hasn't announced a real date yet, there's a 100% probability that 12/1/07 is wrong. In order for it to come out in December, S-E would have had to released the game by now, considering localization takes a good 6-8 months at the minimum).

I'm pumped as hell for FFXIII, though.

I'm amazed at how quickly I got the Sagitarrius Gems and the Beastlord Horns to make the Sagittarius Bow. That was good advice, Metal Sphere. It took me 30 minutes to get them both, tops.

Hey right now it is too early to say, but that is the date right now. We'll probably find out more around July.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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I don't think you recall correctly, then. I'm on my second play through of the game, and I just beat Raithwall's tomb. Ashe said nothing like that. It certainly doesn't appear in any of the game scripts of translations on GameFAQs. Here is what Ashe says:

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Ok, looks like my fuzzy memory failed me.

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I suppose. That's why they should have blown them all up before things got out of hand!

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Eh? You still don't see it? They tried to do the same thing they did back in Raithwall's time, by picking one person and telling them exactly what to do. They tried to use the same tactics and before and... well, failed.

So, yes, they were trying to just blow everything up... just via Ashe so she'd catch whatever wrath came afterwards.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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I see it, I'm just having trouble accepting it. I can't. I won't! Nobody is that cowardly! Not even the Occuria! There are a million things they could have done to take control directly without any threat to themselves whatsoever. Why not just destroy everything remotely? Send out some kind of time-delayed magical mist-bomb. Detonate it when it floats over Archades. (Or wherever.) Then they wouldn't even have to leave their hideout. Certainly they're not too paranoid for that? And besides, how can anybody have wrath toward them when only a few people on the whole planet even know they exist, and none of them even have any Nethicite (at that point, before the game starts; before manufacted Nethicite is developed) to defend themselves with, even if they did?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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I see it, I'm just having trouble accepting it. I can't. I won't! Nobody is that cowardly! Not even the Occuria! There are a million things they could have done to take control directly without any threat to themselves whatsoever. Why not just destroy everything remotely? Send out some kind of time-delayed magical mist-bomb. Detonate it when it floats over Archades. (Or wherever.) Then they wouldn't even have to leave their hideout. Certainly they're not too paranoid for that? And besides, how can anybody have wrath toward them when only a few people on the whole planet even know they exist, and none of them even have any Nethicite (at that point, before the game starts; before manufacted Nethicite is developed) to defend themselves with, even if they did?

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That's why they're stupid. They sat on their rears for 6 years, while Venat was helping an already increasingly powerful Empire get stronger. Again, they didn't take the initiative and actively stop this crap, instead they waited until they found someone they could manipulate and steer history in the direction they want it to go. This explains why they picked Ashe and not an angry survivor of Nabudis.

I understand why you can't accept it, but I can see why they didn't do all that you had said. Basically they thought: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and did the same thing they've always done. Notice the Occuria are hardly mentioned as being proactive in the bestiary, if ever. They're very reactionary either to perceived threats (mankind, espers, etc..) or annoyances (reasons for the creation of the Entites). So to expect them to suddenly drop what's worked for them all this time would be odd.

BTW, if I was in their position I'd make Mist cover the entire world and make it lethal. I'd wipe the slate clean except for those I deem worthy.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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BTW, if I was in their position I'd make Mist cover the entire world and make it lethal. I'd wipe the slate clean except for those I deem worthy.

Evil! Who would the worthy ones be?

You know, I have to wonder, why did they ever bother making the world (assuming that it was they did it and not some even higher power) if they were just going to fear all of their creations and attack them whenever they felt threatened? They have to be the worst gods ever.

I also must wonder, are they really the Gods? It is clear that their are indeed the "Gods" mentioned in the bestiary, but are they really the highest beings in the FFXII universe? Where did they come from? Did someone else create them? Did they really create Ivalice, or did Ivalice create them? I'm thinking (theoretically, of course) that perhaps they arose from the primordial mist flow, before any other beings did, or perhaps over time evolved into the beings they are today.

Random junk: The bestiary says that Ultima's job was to guide the spirits of the departed to heaven, and to help in their reincarnation. Assuming that the Occuria were the creators of the Espers (most likely true) Does this mean that when someone in Ivalice dies and goes to heaven, they meet the Occuria? Yikes!

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FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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Evil! Who would the worthy ones be?

You know, I have to wonder, why did they ever bother making the world (assuming that it was they did it and not some even higher power) if they were just going to fear all of their creations and attack them whenever they felt threatened? They have to be the worst gods ever.

I also must wonder, are they really the Gods? It is clear that their are indeed the "Gods" mentioned in the bestiary, but are they really the highest beings in the FFXII universe? Where did they come from? Did someone else create them? Did they really create Ivalice, or did Ivalice create them? I'm thinking (theoretically, of course) that perhaps they arose from the primordial mist flow, before any other beings did, or perhaps over time evolved into the beings they are today.

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I have to say, I agree with you. There's something very interesting. In the completed Seeq entry, there's this seemingly disconnected story that ends in the creation of the land of Ivalice. During the course of that story, it mentions that a certain army had gained new forms in order to wage war effectively against the enemy stated. I always wondered if they were the predecessors of the Occuria.

In that case they're definitely not Gods, but relative to all else, what's the difference? It would explain their lack of godlike abilities (omnisciences, omnipotence, etc...)

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Random junk: The bestiary says that Ultima's job was to guide the spirits of the departed to heaven, and to help in their reincarnation. Assuming that the Occuria were the creators of the Espers (most likely true) Does this mean that when someone in Ivalice dies and goes to heaven, they meet the Occuria? Yikes!

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BTW, I don't think the sky city that the Occuria inhabit is heaven. That'd be ridiculous to have the path to heaven be little more than touching a waystone in a city that used to be populated. I think it's just the Occuria being arrogant again, that's all. Just like dubbing Ultima a seraph because they made her with golden wings.

[size=1]lol @ Godrun. I hope I still have that smiling Gerun picture.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

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Perhaps every world in the FFXII universe has its own personal overseers. Ivalice was just unfortunate enough to get stuck with the Occuria.

I don't think Giruvegan is heaven either. I just didn't have any screenshots of Gerun in heaven.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

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Perhaps every world in the FFXII universe has its own personal overseers. Ivalice was just unfortunate enough to get stuck with the Occuria.

I don't think Giruvegan is heaven either. I just didn't have any screenshots of Gerun in heaven.

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It's possible, since Ivalice isn't the name of the planet, but just that area. It's never been said that Ivalice = World, so I don't think there's any problem with that view.

I think the Occuria kind of appointed themselves overseers/rulers after what happened with the creation of the land of Ivalice. If what I believe is true, then they are the victors of that war. You've completed the Seeq entry, right?

Heh. Giruvegan, is little more than a fortress/city. Did you notice the background up there? It looked like at one time there were either more Occuria as well as people up there. I wouldn't be surprised if the Espers did a number on them in that struggle.

Zodiark wasn't involved with them it seems and was sealed because of his power.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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Originally Posted by Metal Sphere

It's possible, since Ivalice isn't the name of the planet, but just that area. It's never been said that Ivalice = World, so I don't think there's any problem with that view.

I wonder then. If Ivalice is just that particular group of continents, what lies on the other side of the planet? Perhaps there is a civilization there that is even more advanced than Ivalice's. They may even have their own "Gods". Although I can't see why the Occuria wouldn't know about this. They seem to have the ability to manifest anywhere, so they certainly must have explored the world before going into hiding.

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I think the Occuria kind of appointed themselves overseers/rulers after what happened with the creation of the land of Ivalice.

This is exactly what I've been thinking. They just sort of said to themselves, "Well, then. We're in charge, now."

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If what I believe is true, then they are the victors of that war. You've completed the Seeq entry, right?

I have not. I haven't picked up FFXII in weeks. What does the entry say?

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Heh. Giruvegan, is little more than a fortress/city. Did you notice the background up there? It looked like at one time there were either more Occuria as well as people up there. I wouldn't be surprised if the Espers did a number on them in that struggle.

I believe that at one time there may have been many more Occuria, and perhaps there are still more left than what we saw in Giruvegan.

I wish there was more information on why the Espers rebelled in the first place. Perhaps they didn't want to be controlled anymore? Or maybe they themselves were also hungry for power? Or, perhaps (my personal theory; one that is a bit too hopeful, maybe) the Espers tired of watching the Occuria abuse the Ivalice and its inhabitants and wanted to stop them, like Venat.

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Zodiark wasn't involved with them it seems and was sealed because of his power.

Cursed to forever remain a child. And rightfully so. I bet they all said a big collective "Uh-oh" when they created him!

How ya doing, buddy?