Religion: What it means to you

I haven't studied them in depth, but if that was the case, that doesn't seem like a religion so much as a bunch of people discussing spirituality, which is perfectly OK with me. I suppose it depends a lot on one's definition of religion.

FELIPE NO

I have a somewhat relaxed view on religion. I've been raised a Catholic and tend to hold to Catholic values. I've been told that based on the few things that I disagree with the Catholics about(the Pope, transubstantiation, a couple of other things) that I'd make a good Lutheran but as I know only a little about Lutherans other than them being Christians I can't confirm this.

Overall I don't care what other people believe or don't believe in with the exception of religions that encourage actively harming others. I figure God doesn't care if you call Him God, Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, The Big Bang, or whatever else. I don't know if any religion has it right or not, I just know that I find Catholic beliefs match up with my morality very well and that I have faith in God even if it's something I can't explain(that's why it's called faith, you can't really prove it). In the end it works for me and that's what matters.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

No Jews call God "Yahweh", for the record. That would actually be sacrilege. His "true" name is considered unable to be accurately pronounced.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

EDIT: Holy shit, this is long. Sorry, everyone, verbal inundation was not my intention.

I'm not sure that there's a term to accurately describe what I believe.

I'll defer to reason and state that it's not outside the realm of possibility for a g/God to exist. There are a ton of things in the universe we do not yet understand, and it is reasonable to assume, then, that some form of higher, if not supreme, being could be a part of that. I do not say that it definitely is or is not, but I will not rule out the possibility that someday someone can gather evidence to prove the existence of a deity.

Personally, though, until someone can provide me that proof, I will not believe in, worship, idolize, pray to, speak to, or otherwise even acknowledge any such invisible or imperceptible entity or force that religion would have me believe has some kind of control over my life. I do not conduct myself in any such way as would "make god happy," and I do not stop to consider any of my actions or words (let alone thoughts) to determine whether or not god would approve.

As far as go "miracles" or other explanations of the unexplained or inexplicable, my worldview is such that all things are divided into two categories: Things we understand, and things we do not understand yet. There is no third category of "things we don't understand and never will because it's god's will that we're not meant to." Science, as far as I'm concerned, is our best bet yet for understanding and interacting with the natural world, and we should all endeavour to better ourselves through observation and study of the things around us. This also goes hand-in-hand with how pissed-off I get when I hear about fundamentalist assholes railing against things like stem cell research or science education teaching evolution. For all the benefits science can offer, it angers me to see it hindered for fear of running afoul of the moral code prescribed by an entity whose existence we cannot even confirm. Stem cells can cure cancer? Oh, but we better not because we might anger a god that may or may not be real.

With regard to the dreaded and oft-recently-abused "M" word, morality, I strive to conduct myself in such a fashion as not to cause harm to anyone I care about. Furthermore, I try to avoid doing harm to anyone who hasn't gone out of their way to hurt me, insult me, slander me, or otherwise generally be a mean old poopyhead to me. I do not agree with the no-revenge principles taught by many religions, however, and have never been one to "turn the other cheek." If god does exist and this pisses him/her/it/them off, that's too bad, because it's not changing anytime soon. I live by a code of ethics, and that has been good enough for most people so far. I have no need for or interest in morality. My ethical standards seem to be sufficient for facilitating amicable interaction with others without causing anyone deliberate harm, and they provide me with channels for righting wrongs done to me without waiting for divine retribution to befall my wrongdoers. I think I'd be waiting for quite a while.

I'm sure I've come across as one of those angry, frothing-at-the-mouth atheists who wants to tear down nativity scenes and burn bibles in public. I'm not, and I don't. I don't get pissy when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas. I say it right back to them. Get wished a Happy Hanukkah? I say that one right back too. As far as I'm concerned, people have, and need to have, the right to believe whatever they damn well please. Personal, individual freedom--the freedom to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't affect anyone else--is one of the most important things in life. The problem is when religion tells people they're not allowed to do what they like because "God says no!" and then when fundie types start pushing their beliefs on others trying to "save" them. These people are no longer free to pursue happiness on their own terms, thus violating part A of personal freedom, and their beliefs lead them to adversely affect others, violating part B.

I'll happily discuss your beliefs and mine with you. You can tell me whatever you want as long as your intent is to inform and hold intelligent discussion. I will be perfectly friendly throughout the entire discourse. The very instant you start telling me I'm a horrible person because I don't think the way you do, however, you will see manifested in me the wrath of your angry god.

So anyway, I guess the term that would describe me is..."apathetic atheist?" I don't believe in any god; I'd be willing to acknowledge one's existence if given conclusive, objective, scientific proof; if such existence were proven I really wouldn't care and still would not adopt any reverence, adoration, or subservience to any deity outside the same level of respect I grant my fellow humans; and where religion is concerned I have no problem with anyone's as long as it allows them to do as they please and as long as I don't have it shoved in my face.

Here's one last point, only because I can't figure out a better place to shoehorn it into my post. A friend of mine, in discussions about various religions, is convinced that no matter what deities anyone worships, it doesn't matter because "it's all the same god anyway." Being an atheist I personally don't mind as I have no stake in the matter, but I used to consider myself a Wiccan for a number of years and remembering what I do from that belief system as well as others...does that assertion strike anyone else as potentially horribly offensive? There's some degree of truth to it if you stay inside Abrahamic religions, but I can see a Hindu, a Wiccan, a Buddhist, or a follower of one of many other faiths whose pantheons follow a different structure being quite insulted at the assertion that their gods are "all the same" as every other. I'm asking because I don't trust myself to make the most informed judgment call on that, and if it is as potentially offensive as I think it is, I'd like to clue her in that she could get herself into some serious hot water if she says that to the wrong person.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Warning: Wall of text incoming.


My mom's side of the family has been Southern Baptist for a very long time, so I ended up going to the Southern Baptist church in town. However, I do not feel attached to that denomination nor any other one in particular. The only reason I still go there today is because its a place that I am comfortable with, and I like the pastors and members of the congregation.

When I first became a Christian almost 8 years ago, I had a viewpoint that I should try converting as many people as possible. However, as time passed and I became more familiar with what the Bible actually said, I am now on the opposite end of the spectrum, hence why I no longer feel connected to organized denominations. At this point, I fully believe a person can be a Christian without ever setting foot inside a church. This is because there is only one requirement to being a Christian; believing in God, as stated in John 3:16. Again, the only reason I attend church is because I want to. I do not feel compelled to do it out of some requirement.

The Bible says the commission of a Christian (sometimes referred to as the Great Commission) is to: "Go therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." -Matthew 28:19-20

However, as I have seen in this thread and over the past few years, trying to forcibly make people convert to something they do not believe in is just downright wrong. It hardly ever works, and when it does, the people converted are not really believers because they did not make that choice on their own. While I am not actively baptizing unbelievers in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, people can see my religion shown in the life I lead. If they ask me about Christianity, I will be happy to tell them. Under no circumstance will I force-feed it to someone. That is not what God wanted us to do.
I would also say the majority of the world today has a general knowledge of Christianity, and it is up to them alone to decide to choose it or not. According to Matthew 7:13-14: "Enter in at the strait gate, for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."

Finally, I want to make it clear that I am not trying to belittle the efforts of those who feel the call to spread the Word. I just don't see it as a requirement of being a Christian. This is where some people would refer to James 2:20, which says: "But will thou know, vain man, that faith without works is dead?" As I said earlier, I believe that my lifestyle demonstrates my faith, and people see that. As long as its visible to others but not in a holier than thou fashion, I believe my faith is just fine. In the end, I feel that people should believe what they want because they want to. If they want to become Christians, they will. If they do not, then they will not. Its that simple.

Most amazing jew boots

I'm personally an atheist. As for helping me in life? Hard to say. A lot of people who believe in the afterlife are helped by the fact that they do believe there is life after death. Since I don't believe in the afterlife, I guess it helps me appreciate life a little more, because when I die, I expect that to be it. I wasn't always an atheist, my parents raised me to believe in god, but I didn't follow through.

Also, since I don't believe in the afterlife or a higher entity, it has made me stronger as a person I guess. I wouldn't say I have a bleak outlook on life, but since I have come to terms with certain beliefs that everything isn't going to be peaches and cream(praying to a god for help or saying I'll see a loved one again in the after life, etc) it has enabled me to deal with hard times better. I guess in a sense it has made me take control of my own life a lot easier, without the help of others. Although I have always been that way. I'm not a person who has ever liked help from people. I like to accomplish things on my own, because I think that is how you become better as a person or at a specific task.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by dragon_87

Finally, I want to make it clear that I am not trying to belittle the efforts of those who feel the call to spread the Word. I just don't see it as a requirement of being a Christian. This is where some people would refer to James 2:20, which says: "But will thou know, vain man, that faith without works is dead?" As I said earlier, I believe that my lifestyle demonstrates my faith, and people see that. As long as its visible to others but not in a holier than thou fashion, I believe my faith is just fine. In the end, I feel that people should believe what they want because they want to. If they want to become Christians, they will. If they do not, then they will not. Its that simple.

We need more of you guys around.

Most amazing jew boots

At this point, all that religion means to me is that I can keep a girlfriend if I believe in God. It's been a tough road the last few years because the last two girlfriends of mine were quite religious, while I'm an atheist myself. I don't know how one has luck like mine, but I've ended up with another religious girlfriend and we're on the verge of breaking up for the same reasons.

Nothing has made me clench my fists with anger or cry more tears of sadness more than religion.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

^^

That reminds me of an issue that could arise with a significant other. Should I get married and have kids, I would want to raise them to be atheists. If my wife is a religious person then there could be trouble. So I really only look for women who may believe, but not really practice on any level. I wouldn't want to get my kid baptized either.

FELIPE NO

I'm an atheist, and it's relieving to see a lot of atheists here. It just seems so dumb to believe in any religion.

One of the things I hate about religion is how it DOES affect my everyday life. I don't want to have to deal with religion if it's such a pointless endeavor. Show me proof of god and I'll change my ways. It almost seems stupid to argue about religion. It should've been a null point a long time ago. Hopefully someday soon we'll look back on religion the same way we look back on alchemy.

I could say more on the subject, but it's late and I'm sleepy. I'll vent some other time.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by DragoonKain

That reminds me of an issue that could arise with a significant other. Should I get married and have kids, I would want to raise them to be atheists. If my wife is a religious person then there could be trouble. So I really only look for women who may believe, but not really practice on any level. I wouldn't want to get my kid baptized either.

How would you even raise a kid atheist? Take him to the laboratory on weekends and say HERE'S YOUR GOD!? Why not just let the kid make his own decisions instead of indoctrinating him into your way of life like so many other religions do?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

How would you even raise a kid atheist? Take him to the laboratory on weekends and say HERE'S YOUR GOD!? \

Teach the children the scientific method, and the golden rules, its a very logical approach in a sense to test many of the assumptions that within our society. That doesn't necessary mean the children will turn out to be atheist, but if they are not ignorant of the scientific understanding of the physical world, its possible to come to a happy medium between faith and science, at least.

I was kind of surprised to see this kind of knee jerk reaction coming from you though.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I hate staunch atheists even more than I hate fanatical religious people.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I was raised atheist. Cuz you see, it's stupid to believe in a god when you're presented with the choice.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

I hate staunch atheists even more than I hate fanatical religious people.

Well, I consider myself a "staunch" atheist, although probably not "fanatical". Do you hate me too?

I was speaking idiomatically.

If you feel the need to identify your beliefs as who you are.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

If you're an atheist, why even make "religion" part of your life? Even if it's just the absence of religion? That's entirely nonsensical.

How ya doing, buddy?

I agree with you, but that would only work on a theoretical level. Religion is everywhere anymore, there's no way to deny that.

Most amazing jew boots

The only way to change that is to abandon the idea of religion completely. Teaching atheism is not really much better than the teaching of Christianity.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It would be impossible to abandon religion completely anymore. I would like to think that we could just ignore it and religion would go away completely, but people are wasting more and more time and money on nonsense such as a creationism "museum." Teaching atheism would enlighten the world.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Breeding licenses and mandatory reversible sterilization upon reaching puberty.

People could be free to be religious, but then they don't get the license to have kids. No kids = losing the most effective vector for spreading the religion.

Agnostics/atheists/apathetics (those who just don't give a damn about even wondering whether there's a god) apply for the breeding license, maybe take a "parental competency" test with some other criteria, and get desterilized and made able to propagate.

Converting/lying on the test/otherwise exposing children to religion in a proselytizing or other non-academic fashion (i.e. anything more than "The $RELIGION system of belief is A, B, C, with doctrines X, Y, Z") is grounds for removal of one's children from one's custody and placement into a foster home. Additionally, parents will be irreversibly resterilized and possibly serve prison sentences as well.

Draconian, but if you want to get rid of religion, it should solve the problem within a couple generations.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by CelticWhisper

Breeding licenses and mandatory reversible sterilization upon reaching puberty.

People could be free to be religious, but then they don't get the license to have kids. No kids = losing the most effective vector for spreading the religion.

Agnostics/atheists/apathetics (those who just don't give a damn about even wondering whether there's a god) apply for the breeding license, maybe take a "parental competency" test with some other criteria, and get desterilized and made able to propagate.

Converting/lying on the test/otherwise exposing children to religion in a proselytizing or other non-academic fashion (i.e. anything more than "The $RELIGION system of belief is A, B, C, with doctrines X, Y, Z") is grounds for removal of one's children from one's custody and placement into a foster home. Additionally, parents will be irreversibly resterilized and possibly serve prison sentences as well.

Draconian, but if you want to get rid of religion, it should solve the problem within a couple generations.

I like the idea!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

It would be impossible to abandon religion completely anymore. I would like to think that we could just ignore it and religion would go away completely, but people are wasting more and more time and money on nonsense such as a creationism "museum." Teaching atheism would enlighten the world.

What harm does religion, in the broadest sense of the word, do to the world? Why would you ever want to play the thought police?

I was speaking idiomatically.

You mean besides the senseless bombings in the name of Allah the Almighty? Or the corruption of morals by allowing people to pay the church to forgive their sins? What about all the religious wars?

To answer your second question, I wouldn't want to play thought police. Religion is already doing that. I want to stop the thought policing if you will.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

You mean besides the senseless bombings in the name of Allah the Almighty? Or the corruption of morals by allowing people to pay the church to forgive their sins? What about all the religious wars?

To answer your second question, I wouldn't want to play thought police. Religion is already doing that. I want to stop the thought policing if you will.

You're simply turning atheism into a religion. Even the word "atheism" reflects this. Just live your life the way you see fit, but, please, don't infringe upon the rights of others. Religion would be fine with me were it not for people constantly using it as justification to further their respective agendas.

Originally Posted by GameInfarcer

It would be impossible to abandon religion completely anymore. I would like to think that we could just ignore it and religion would go away completely, but people are wasting more and more time and money on nonsense such as a creationism "museum." Teaching atheism would enlighten the world.

Like Christians and Jews have never done the same damn thing.

FELIPE NO