Suddenly, a Liberal Democrat appears

So there's an election over here in a couple of weeks and thanks largely to the two televised debates between the leaders of the main parties, it's shaping up to be quite a contest.

For the last 30 years if not longer, the UK has been a largely two party state. The LibDems have always held a few seats, even when they were two seperate parties, but they've never really been contenders for government, thanks in some part to the other two parties constantly trying to tell people that a vote for a third party is a wasted vote (It's much easier to campaign against a single opponent). Now that Gordon Brown has fucked the country, it looked a few months ago like a landslide by the Tories was in the offing but sadly for them, people have long memories and can remember how shit Thatcher was, plus the expenses scandal hit the toffs particularly badly with their moats and duck houses so people were looking for an alternative.

Originally, Nick Clegg wasn't going to feature in the tv debates, it was going to just be Dave and Gordon but apparently Dave thought having the LibDems up there too would give him easy points scoring opportunities. Silly Dave.

What has happened is that given a very public forum, Nick Clegg has shown himself to be if nothing else, a much better public speaker than the others. On top of that, LibDem policies are getting much more of an airing than they otherwise would and across the country more and more people are switching their allegiance to the Liberals.

I don't think they'll win the election but if opinion polls convert into election success they're looking like being the main opposition party, ahead of labour. Unless of course there's a hung parliament in which case they'll be a very influential second party to the Tories or possibly even the majority in a Lib/Lab coalition.

Either way, it's looking like we're going to have a radically different government in a couple of weeks. As part of a coalition agreement, the LibDems will certainly demand at least a referendum on a switch to Proportional Representation in future and a number of LibDems will join the cabinet, includign probably Vince Cable as Chancellor and Lewes's own Norman Baker as Transport Secretary.

So to all my fellow Englanders, who are you supporting and why? Have you watched any of the debates and what did you think? Are you even going to vote and if not, why not?

The Septics managed to fill a whole subforum with their Mickey Mouse election so a change of government in the birthplace of parliamentary democracy deserves at least a thread.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

My full support is behind Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats. Asides from watching the regular broadcasts from the House of Commons and getting the terrifying feeling that Clegg the only party leader who actually wants to talk politics instead of repeatedly kicking other leaders in the teeth being his main agenda, I think the Lib Dem manifesto makes a lot of sense. I've not had the chance to watch the televised debates what with being without TV but friends have updated me on its progress and Clegg looks to be a very promising leader. So that's where my vote is going.

I never thought I would be this excited by an election. Finally, it might be possible that it's no longer a two-horse race. I've had to tone down my feelings around my mother though, who's always been a Tory voter. She thinks the country could do with another PM like Thatcher, and has always maintained that the Lib Dems are a "wishy washy" party with no real political standpoint.

Also, is it just me who feels that the Tory and Labour billboards read like something out of a bad political cartoon?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between real party posters and the parodies on b3ta, certainly. I didn't watch the first debate but last night's was great, although a lot of that might have been down to the wine and gin. Clegg's a really good public speaker and his closing speach last night would have been perfectly accompanied by Land of Hope and Glory or something. I can't believe the news is saying it was a close run thing last night, Gordon looked an idiot again, Cameron just spouted party spin ad nauseum and Clegg kicked arse.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I've been reading around about the newfound strength of the Liberal-Democrats in Great Britain, and I am curious if a lot of that strength came from Clegg's appearances in the debates or has there been momentum going with them for a longer time before?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The only real momentum is the ongoing disillusion with both main parties. The debates seem to have reminded people that we're not actually a two party system. Or we don't have to be.

Originally Posted by Shin

I can't believe the news is saying it was a close run thing last night, Gordon looked an idiot again, Cameron just spouted party spin ad nauseum and Clegg kicked arse.

Was this the Right owned news? I've avoided angering myself with seeing the headlines of the papers from recent days, but I hear they're hilariously biased. We can also discount any poll by YouGov, CEO Nadhim Zahawi, who's standing as a conservative MP:

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8...30be67e353.jpg


I certainly hope the post-debate 'Cleggomania' translates into actual votes. I've always leaned to the Lib-Dems but never actually voted because our definition of democracy is shit:

"In 1983 the Liberals got 25% of the vote and Labour got 27%.

This gave the Liberals 23 seats and Labour 209 seats."

Those are actual real figures that I've quoted from someone else from another forum somewhere. The BBC have got a nifty electoral seat calculator online, and if you put in the numbers from one of the polls that said Clegg won, then it would still mean the Lib-Dems get only about half the seats of the other parties.

So the only realistic hope is the hung-parliament scenario, and a Lib-Lab pact.

Wth that in mind, I'll definitely be voting this year, and I'll also try to convince the UKIP supporters/closet-racists that I'm sharing a house with to think of voting Lib-Dem since they're offering a referendum on UK membership to the EU.

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Well that's why things will be so different if the Libs insist on a PR system as a condition of forming a coalition, it means in future they'll get be serious contenders as a political party. It makes me laugh when ardent supporters of the two old parties (As Clegg kept refering to them last night) bang on about how if we had PR we'd always have hung parliaments in future as if having people of different parties with different ideas coming together to run the country is automatically a bad thing. I think having a main party but tempered by a few different ideas can be a good thing as it means we're less likely to get stuck in the sort of political rut we've been in for the last ten years or so.

I got quite annoyed today watching This Morning when their analysis of the debate focussed entirely on what the leaders look like and how they were dressed, dismissing what they were saying as boring. It's idiotic programming like this that has led to the dissaffection of so many people in this country when it comes to politics.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I sure do hope for you guys can make the switch to PR as you are suggesting might happen. I don't know the intricacies that differentiate your government from the one we have here in Canaduh-land, but if it's as I understand it, I wouldn't hold my breath on the PR system actually getting implemented.

The New Democratic Party (our third biggest party, similar to your LibDems) have had switching over to PR as part of their platform for quite a while now. The problem is that the two main parties have absolutely no reason to want to switch over, as they would just lose power in the process. Hence, they will do whatever it takes to make sure it is never put to a vote. Granted, if a coalition government is formed with a large enough number of LibDem MPs, whoever forms the other half might now have no choice but to at least discuss the possibility.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Ah! Amiga

I certainly hope the post-debate 'Cleggomania' translates into actual votes. I've always leaned to the Lib-Dems but never actually voted because our definition of democracy is shit:

That's exactly how I've felt, and I probably wouldn'tve voted either if I had been old enough at the time.

I watched part of the second political debate yesterday. The whole thing is quite hilarious. Clegg getting on with the debate, Brown shooting him the "evil eye" and Cameron staring into the camera for all the world as if he's Hypnotoad. I laughed when Cameron accused Brown of using scare tactics in his leaflets - you'd wonder if he'd actually seen his own billboards.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

You realise if you don't take part in the process, you're more of a problem than anything, yeah? If you don't even try to have a say, you really have no right to bitch about the outcome.

How ya doing, buddy?

If there had been any chance of getting the Lib Dems into power before this perhaps I would feel differently. I have every right to complain when elections have been a case of either vote Labour or vote Conservative. Even if I had voted Lib Dem it would have been a wasted vote. One vote not going to Labour or Conservative, but not one that would have made a difference. Not voting is a way of protesting the two-party system when there are not enough voters choosing the party you would rather see in power.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Bernard Black

If there had been any chance of getting the Lib Dems into power before this perhaps I would feel differently. I have every right to complain when elections have been a case of either vote Labour or vote Conservative. Even if I had voted Lib Dem it would have been a wasted vote. One vote not going to Labour or Conservative, but not one that would have made a difference.

Okay, so we're going to be infantile and say our vote only counts if our team wins? You know why that's a wasted vote? Because the party has no base, because no one votes for them because hey, wasted vote. You need to learn the difference between long term change and the talking points of the major parties, BB. You should be smarter than this.

So no, you don't have a right to complain. You clearly voted to keep the status quo rather than support the underdog you actually identify with. Somewhere the stupid youth of this world got the idea you vote for who you think will win, rather than voting for the person who best represents your opinions. "O, well my vote won't change anything so I won't bother. Grrr, so mad that only these two parties are around. I'm going to show them by doing nothing. That'll start a discourse."

Eyes do not roll hard enough. No vote, no say.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

What you fail to realise is that I was about to come back and amend my post with "or of course it could be that you are right and I'm just clutching at straws here", especially since one of my friends isn't voting and I said exactly the same thing you said to me earlier today.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Bernard Black

What you fail to realise is that I was about to come back and amend my post with "or of course it could be that you are right and I'm just clutching at straws here", especially since one of my friends isn't voting and I said exactly the same thing you said to me earlier today.

Well then, it seems we've come to an agreement.



How... awkward.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Well, while I don't condone no vote, there is still the discretion of having to choose between your choice candidate, or a candidate who needs an edge over the evil likes of the conservative base.

I personally would love to vote Green Party here in USA, but in my state, the races between Rep. and Dem. are way too close.

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There is something to be said for tactical voting to keep out someone you particularly don't want but over here at the moment we have a situation where an awful lot of people don't want either the Labour party or the Tories so the tactical votes are going to the third option, something that's not happened for a very long time. It's a shame that by all forecasts the Liberals are only going to take about a fifth of the seats in the country while getting at least a third of the actual votes, if not more but hopefully that'll be enough to force a coalition and we can see some electoral reforms get underway.

The third debate started well but got a bit dull in the second half when they all descended to petty name calling and answering what they wanted to answer, rather than the actual questions. It was a real shame that they guy who asked about why politicians are so detached from normal people's opinions qualified the question by adding "Particularly about immigration" as it gave the leaders a chance to talk about immigration and duck the question about how they can possibly relate to normal people when they're all living on £60k a year in second houses bought by the tax payer.

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My current opinion is to vote for conservative, on the grounds that throughout history they always seem to clean up labours shit, then the general public get annoyed with the sacrifices that need to be made in order to do so. With that then labour makes all these promises of easier times as they get back in power, then the process starts over and we lose the ground we made up economically.

I'm not fully familiar with Nick Cleggs policys, but I can understand the logic behind voting them in on the grounds they don't team up with Labour, sure would be nice to break that vicious cycle.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Well the results so far are still inconclusive. Locally, we retained our LibDem MP which is a good thing but fuck only knows who'll actually end up running the country. I suspect we'll see Gordon Brown getting the boot and a Lib/Lab coalition taking power under a new leader, hopefully with the promise of electoral reform.

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We've ended up with a Conservative MP. A bugger in my books considering my vote but god, Christine Russell (Labour) was such a hypocritical smarmy whore. Funnily enough she became much more responsive to pressure mail her constituents were sending her as soon as election time rolled around. I'm worried about our new MP because even though my dad voted Conservative, he has serious doubts about the man. Time will tell.

We need an electoral reform, so I suppose I should be hoping for a Lib/Lab coalition. I'm just gutted poll surges didn't work out for the Lib Dems overall. Pipe dream?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I voted Lib Dem, and our local candidate was defeated in our constituency by a fraction of a percent. Less than 200 votes the difference, out of 48,196 cast. Shamefully, 2,781 of them were cast for the fucking BNP. Over 2,500 for 'other party' or 'independant' candidates, all of whom were pretty much hardline Tories wearing a different badge. This after a swing of 17.5% percent in favour of the Lib Dems.

Gutted. Utterly Gutted. Anyone in favour of Lib Dems who didn't vote yesterday in Ashfield, I'm ashamed and dismayed to share political affiliation with you. You could have changed the result. Turnout was 65% which probably means there were at least some of you.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Well labour won in our area, and if I know my history repeating itself, conservative and lib dems are going to realize what a mess labour made and try and fix it.

With a plan set out and in action the working class will bitch the most about the sacrifices needed to be made in order to fix the damage done, then labour will show up with a facelift again promising better times and the cycle will start all over again because the general english public have short memories.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well there you go. Gordon Brown has stepped down and resigned as leader of the Labour party, to be replaced by Harriet Harding (?). Libservative Con Dems? coalition ahead of us. I'm glad my only live news source is the radio because I don't think I could stand the smug look on Cameron's face.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well if we are to believe everything they've said so far, the new government might turn out ok. Income tax threshold up to £10,000 (Although an extra 1% on NI), a referendum on electoral reform, more money pumped into the NHS, it all looks good on paper, although having a hardline tory warmonger as defence secretary is a little alarming.

Cameron's paying his first visit to Scotland as PM today. I'm almost hoping he turns up with a full tank division behind him, tells the Scots they're back to being a purely subservient vassal state and then kills every first-born son to get his point across. Seeing as how we have the most English government for decades, we might as well put the boot in to the provinces while we have a chance.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Good on paper, aye. Unfortunately at this point a lot of good policies are being pushed back by Tory MPs. Here's to hoping that the ridiculous amount of petitions and emails to MPs I and thousands of others have sent over the past month or so will actually do some good...

Also.

YouTube Video

FELIPE NO