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View Poll Results: Firearms! | |||
FOR! (The only right answer) | 21 | 38.18% | |
Against (Insert random joke) | 32 | 58.18% | |
Undecided (too weak to have your own opinion?) | 2 | 3.64% | |
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll |
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So why was my post deleted? It was a cynical argument, yeah, but still an argument.
I don't see why my contribution to this thread warrants deletion while this
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
I'm just wondering. Do you suppose the crimes in your area are random crimes or are they perhaps more often premeditated crimes with specific targets? In other words, would you really get screwed with if you didn't screw with anyone?
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
Hmm...maybe not. And if I didn't have kids I might risk it, you know, for the sake of scientific research.
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
Heh, I'm just saying. Because around here, I've sometimes considered walking around with a baseball bat just to deter possible assailants, but I would think that in the boonies, if someone takes the effort to travel all the way to your house, they must at least know you and if they liked you, well, they'd probably find someone else to rob.
I was speaking idiomatically. |
But Minion, what if someone followed me home to rape me? Is that such a stretch? Lots of people in my area know that my husband has been deployed for a while, and even if they didn't, it's not all that unheard of for some insane rapist to follow a woman home and rape and sometimes kill her.
Although I will admit that we've had this gun since we first got married. Also, I was raised in a home with guns, so it's something I don't even think about. It just seems like the logical thing to do to have a gun in your home for protection. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
This isn't to say I am just going to shoot someone for stepping into my home illegally. The only time it is justifiable to shoot an intruder is if they are attacking you or point a firearm at you. Otherwise I'd just corner the guy and make him lay down on his face while I hog tie him at gun point while I wait for the cops to show up and take this person away. Rock: I don't know what you are talking about your post being deleted... FELIPE NO |
The point is, yes, all this stuff happens. But then, a lot of things that we never prepare for are possible. What's the number 1 killer in this country? It's not thieves or rapists; it's heart failure. How many people (espeically in the South) do anything to prevent that? It's just a question of values. These people allegedly care so much about taking care of themselves, but ironically ignore the things that are most likely to kill them, like poor dieting and lack of exercise and smoking. Double Post:
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?
Last edited by Minion; Mar 28, 2006 at 12:38 PM.
Reason: Automerged double post.
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Yeah well, Devolution, I am well aware of the fact that in total numbers, the United States of America has - surprisingly enough - a higher crime rate than the Vatican or Vanuatu... I was talking about the amount of crime per inhabitant, and that's a statistic you guys still rock.
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Minion their situation doesn't have to be the same as mine, but just because they choose to be out there doesn't make it right for them to steal, nor will it make me feel any pity for these people when they try and steal my things. They made the decision to come into my home, they will pay the concequences of their actions for invading my home.
There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Look, the United States is like 25 times larger than Germany, but has only three times more inhabitants so what about you don't tell me anything about urbanity? And don't even try to start with this ethnical shit, we have niggers and jews over here, too. This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
You didn't really answer my question. Why can't some of them get it together? Are there enough resources out there for ALL of the homeless in this country? I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
Most amazing jew boots |
How big are the black populations in german cities? How about the meth problem among white trash Germans? The crime problem isn't caused by guns, but they do increase it. Banning guns would be useless, as there are too many out there anyway. Better enforcing of the laws and actually keeping scum locked up and executing those who need it, in a timely fashion, would do more to lower the problem. Instead of a background check on a gun buyer, it would sure be nice if there could be a test to determine the buyers dumbass quotion. No, I'm sorry, you are way to stupid to be buying a gun. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
Because without guns people basically could not kill each other and would have no desire to do so anyway.
FELIPE NO |
I'm still going by the logic that less guns mean less crime. How can you even refute this? I mean, criminals aren't exactly born as criminals and you can't really predict who becomes a criminal. It might just as well be this Gumby person who claims he needs a shitload of guns to "protect himself".
What kind of a stupid argument is saying that "criminals" will be getting their guns illegally nonetheless!? I'm willing to bet that most of these killings have been carried out with legally purchased and owned weaponry. With more guns being publically available, the probability of abuse is much higher than in a society with strict gun control. What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
"A gun is a coward's weapon, a liar's weapon. We kill too often because we made it too easy, sparing ourselves the mess and the work." Jam it back in, in the dark. |
The fact of the matter is that none of us are criminologists. Determining whether or not the presence of guns increases crime is impossible, yet we can statistically establish that an absence of guns does not eliminate crime, or criminal intent. In fact, we've had crimes since we've had laws. Murders used to be commited primarily with knives and swords. Does the multiple use of a dagger justify its banning? Some ancient civilizations would say so, but now that we have guns, versatility is all of a sudden an important element. And what of bows? You could use them to hang your dry-cleaning, but how many uses for them involved something outside of maiming and killing a human being? Of course, in ancient times, "gun control" was a simple matter of production. Your average Joe didn't have access to a furnace, or advanced smithy. Nor could he even afford its products. Rebellion was practically impossible without monetary backing, or an industrial base, and those rebellions that succeeded were committed to the selfish wishes of individuals or oligarchies. There was never really a true "People's Rebellion" until the advent of the gun. There have never been free societies before the gun. The gun, as they say, is the Great Equalizer, and the base threat of force it provides is what, I feel, makes the right to bear arms so important. It forces law to remain legitimate, it forces governments into serving their people. Is owning an AK any different from owning a shotgun? Does a 30 round magazine make it any easier for me to kill people? What if I just carried a lot of guns? Then again, I believe that criminalizing the possession of anything is ridiculous, since it's impossible to determine intent until use. I am, after all, some dumb Libertarian. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
Minion: If you think people will not kill each other when there is a lack of firearms you are lacking a gasp of reality because if that were true countries that banned the use of firearms would have ZERO murders, but the simple fact is that isn't true. Bradylama: I have a quote for you, since you seem to have your head screwed on straight. "An armed man is a citizen: an unarmed man is a subject." - Unknown This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
It's called a joke. I know it's confusing because I am arguing both sides (since I take issue with some points raised by both sides), but I thought my tone was pretty obviously sarcastic.
I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
Alice, chances are really good that a gun won't help you prevent or stop a rape. Unless you pay attention to your surroundings, a rapist can approach you from behind and stick a knife to your throat. That's typically how rapes occur. At this point no gun is going to help you. What will help you is a little knowledge of self defense. Ask your husband for a little self defense training. They still teach all military recruits some basic Judo moves. Rapists, like most criminals typically go easy targets. So don't make yourself an easy target yeah? Don't get caught out and alone late at night. Don't loiter around that dark alley. Finally, if you're caught in that situation don't scream "RAPE!" scream "FIRE!!!!" Somebody's more likely to come assist. It's as easy as that. Last, a criminal following you home is just some paranoid fantasy out of a movie. Or a home security system commercial. Do you know which houses in your neighborhood contain guns? Probably not. Does a criminal? Definitely not. Why risk it if you're going after easy targets?
I can agree with you on your second point. But I'm a stupid libertarian too. I was speaking idiomatically. |
The airbag/handgun analogy isn't quite as good, but it's still works. Both can be life savers in an emergancy situation, both are something you hope you'll never need to use, but both are something good to have, just in case the worst should happen...
I mentioned this in the firearms topic in general disscussion, but I'll say it again here. When you're out on the streets, using a gun to defend yourself should be your VERY LAST RESORT. You should run if possible and avoid confrontation. BUT, when someone breaks into your home, things change. You have to assume that the invader is out to harm you and your family. I wouldn't hesitate to kill a home invader, not for one second.
As for the background check, I agree with you, and in fact, to buy ANY gun, you do have to have a background check. There is a loop-hole in the law however that I feel needs to be closed: Used Guns. If I buy a gun, I have to have a background check. But say after a few years I decide to sell that gun, I can sell it to anyone without doing a backgrond check on them. I think you should have to prefrom a background check anytime a firearm changes ownership, not just when you buy one new from the dealers...
Also, I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying that a crime has to involve a gun to be considered a crime? So it's okay if I kill you with bow or sword, but not a gun?
Minion, you seem that think that criminals are really a bunch of nice guys at heart, that they're simply mis-understood. I don't buy that...
Again, I don't understand this line of thought, that it's "honorable" to kill someone with a blade, but "cowardly" to do the same thing with a bullet... the end result is the same, so what differance does it make?
Most amazing jew boots |
When I was in middle school they offered a gun safety coarse and at the end of it I received a gun safety card... before I left that middle school the program was coming to an end. This is what happens when you have people in charge of a school who are Anti-gun; the basics involved in using a firearm are not taught to our children.
FELIPE NO |
How ya doing, buddy?
<33
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It is a bad thing. It's bad because kids that have no fucking idea what they're doing sometimes get their hands on guns. There'd be fewer "accidents" if kids were told how to properly handle a firearm...
Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Sometimes I'm still a little surprised at some things due to my not being from the US. Here it'd be laughable to teach kid's gun safety, or how to shoot etc. as a matter of course in public school. But apparently it's just the opposite wherever David and Gumby are..
On the subject of killing intruders because they are 'the bad guys': There are degrees to being a bad person or criminal. I think Minion's point is that just because someone will steal (bad), does not mean that they will rape/murder (more bad). So the argument that they *might* do worse than steal, so you ought to kill 'em, y'know, just in case, sounds a bit harsh to me. Shoplifters aren't executed for a reason, and so on. On the subject of availability of firearms: Yeah, weapons are easily bought illegaly. My argument against this, is that if every joe sixpack didn't buy gun(s), then there would be a whole hell of a lot less made. A whole hell of a lot less stolen/lost/resold illegaly. Those illegaly obtained weapons have to come from somewhere, and they are only made because there is a legal demand for them. On the subject of 'guns don't kill people': If you are in a confrontation, and someone pulls a weapon it escalates to situation. What might have been a fist fight turns into a killing. So one's response of carrying a weapon, and pulling it when they are 'in trouble' has a great chance of increasing their risk in that situation. I've been in this kind of situation before, and what was a manageable situation got immediately out of control because someone wanted to pull a weapon. And just so we are clear, I don't think that guns should be banned. I think that the population should think a little more clearly about why they are buying and using them. I hear an awful lot of excuses about owning them, maybe instead of excusing the behaviour you might examine for yourself why you 'need' them. Also, what other uses for your guns have you found? I'm reminded of Homer trying to get a cat out of the tree... You cook with them? Clean with them? Seriously, as far as I know, they only do one thing, put a hole in whatever you shoot 'em at. Please elaborate on all the other practicle things you do? There's nowhere I can't reach.
"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
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