[Multiplatform] Fallout 3 - Guns with Oblivion

Scans of the Gameinformer Article.

I'm just gonna copy what I told Acer for this one:

Quote:

[23:09] acerbanditgff: oh man what do you think of the new FO3 scans?
[23:10] IamBradylama: haven't seen 'em yet
[23:10] IamBradylama: link pls
[23:10] IamBradylama: also i have to poopoos
[23:10] acerbanditgff: http://kotaku.com/gaming/fallout-3/n...ans-269517.php
[23:10] acerbanditgff: lol
[23:14] IamBradylama: I just stopped following Fallout 3 altogether once I started following the Ron Paul campaign.
[23:15] acerbanditgff: heh
[23:15] acerbanditgff: just got finished watching that fff thing
[23:15] acerbanditgff: crazy stuff
[23:15] IamBradylama: Oh haha so far I'm not impressed with black cowboy, super alien, and 4 dudes.
[23:16] IamBradylama: And I've just looked at the top of the first page.
[23:19] acerbanditgff: well at least the game doesn't look like oblivion ass
[23:20] IamBradylama: No shit.,
[23:20] IamBradylama: Another thing
[23:20] acerbanditgff: characters actually look good this time
[23:20] IamBradylama: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/alb...2276&mode=next
[23:20] IamBradylama: Vaults aren't supposed to advertise themselves.
[23:21] IamBradylama: also lollin again at black cowboy.
[23:21] acerbanditgff: i wonder what skill black cowboys come with
[23:22] IamBradylama: Dunno
[23:22] IamBradylama: Also I'm not digging the Pip-Boy 3000
[23:22] IamBradylama: Since it's got an analog input
[23:22] IamBradylama: good
[23:22] IamBradylama: But a digital interface.
[23:22] IamBradylama: Confusing.
[23:22] IamBradylama: I'm also not reading the actual article yet.
[23:23] IamBradylama: OK, the lack of level scaling is a VERY good thing.
[23:23] IamBradylama: It might actually be worth playing through.
[23:24] acerbanditgff: i wonder if character movement animations will actually look good
[23:25] acerbanditgff: i mean they'd have to be if they're doing a good 3rd person optional perspective that they want people to use
[23:25] IamBradylama: Well they were shit for Oblivion so who knows?
[23:25] IamBradylama: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/alb...2278&mode=next
[23:25] IamBradylama: also the Super Mutants look like shit.
[23:25] acerbanditgff: looks better than most oblivion monsters
[23:26] acerbanditgff: i do wonder if his mace is a stand-in oblivion prop though
[23:26] IamBradylama: Nope
[23:27] IamBradylama: I think that's some kind of fire hydrant.
[23:27] IamBradylama: Also the VATS system completely misses the fucking point.
[23:28] acerbanditgff: is that the i'm gonna shoot at your junk b/c it's green thing?
[23:28] IamBradylama: Yep
[23:28] IamBradylama: It's confusing
[23:29] IamBradylama: It's like they're trying to appeal to the shooter camp and the tactical camp at the same time.
[23:29] IamBradylama: And failing at both.
[23:29] acerbanditgff: well so far I like the level design
[23:29] IamBradylama: Hey
[23:29] IamBradylama: Level design is about more than just scenery. =P
[23:30] acerbanditgff: true
[23:30] acerbanditgff: but it looks way more active than oblvion
[23:30] IamBradylama: Gore looks promising.
[23:30] acerbanditgff: er busy
[23:30] acerbanditgff: oblivion was like lol we have lots of rocks and grass i hope you enjoy
[23:31] IamBradylama: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/alb...2280&mode=next
[23:31] IamBradylama: 1. Yes it was a fire hydrant
[23:31] acerbanditgff: and then i'm like god damn it i just want to shoot 5 cougars and it's like noooo lol your gonna enjoy every frame of this for 10 seconds
[23:31] IamBradylama: 2. The Behemoth looks like a Tactics Super Mutant (a.k.a. shitty)
[23:31] IamBradylama: 3. A nuclear catapult is STUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPID
[23:32] IamBradylama: This isn't fucking Starship Troopers.
[23:32] acerbanditgff: did you ever fiddle with nuclear weapons in the first two?
[23:32] IamBradylama: Nope
[23:32] IamBradylama: Nukes were the size of the Fat Man bomb.
[23:32] acerbanditgff: how about dirty bombs?
[23:32] IamBradylama: Nope
[23:32] IamBradylama: Miniaturization never existed in Fallout since transistors never won out over vacuum tubes.
[23:33] IamBradylama: The concept of a tactical nuke, much less a handheld one in Fallout's setting is a TREMENDOUS stretch.
[23:34] acerbanditgff: doesn't this game take place hundreds of years after the first two or something?
[23:34] IamBradylama: I dunno
[23:34] IamBradylama: I've heard that it takes place 10 years after Fallout 2.
[23:34] IamBradylama: You also have to keep in mind
[23:34] IamBradylama: Fallout took place 80 years after the bombs
[23:34] IamBradylama: Fallout 2 was 80 years after Fallout.
[23:35] IamBradylama: Technology didn't advance in any way worth shit.
[23:35] IamBradylama: The Enclave was able to make Vertibirds and upgraded power armors, but they didn't have the manufacturing capability to go much beyond that.
[23:35] IamBradylama: Especially mini-nukes.
[23:35] IamBradylama: I mean
[23:36] IamBradylama: Power Armor is powered by miniature fusion reactors.
[23:36] IamBradylama: But a tactical nuke that can be shot yards away?
[23:36] IamBradylama: Come on.
[23:36] acerbanditgff: well depending on how much time has gone you never know
[23:36] IamBradylama: I'm also not impressed with the promise of 9-12 endings.
[23:37] IamBradylama: STALKER had 7 different endings and the only ones based on your actions in the game were McGuffins
[23:37] IamBradylama: Though interestingly enough they were more interesting than the TRUE endings.
[23:37] IamBradylama: Having overall endings is also a serious step down from Fallout's faction-specific endings, but it's better than Oblivion.
[23:38] IamBradylama: Ok, end of article and the nuke looks pretty sweet.
[23:38] acerbanditgff: lolz i'm a dragon sacrifice get a new king lol
[23:38] IamBradylama: lol
[23:38] IamBradylama: BIG ASS DEMON BATTLE
[23:38] IamBradylama: The End
[23:38] IamBradylama: or not
[23:38] IamBradylama: Fuck around do whatever this game doesn't have an actual "ending"
[23:39] IamBradylama: My impression:
[23:39] IamBradylama: This'll be better than Oblivion.
[23:39] IamBradylama: But it shouldn't have been Fallout 3.
[23:39] IamBradylama: haha the scans have 426 comments at NMA.
[23:40] acerbanditgff: how are they taking it?
[23:41] IamBradylama: Mixed
[23:41] IamBradylama: It all looks nice
[23:41] IamBradylama: But from a Fallout perspective
[23:41] IamBradylama: It also looks like shit.
[23:41] IamBradylama: Basically they don't like all of the stuff I just harped to you on.
[23:41] IamBradylama: Also apparently Karma traits are Live achievements. =/
[23:42] IamBradylama: Remember when people played games to have fun and not to get Live achievements?
[23:42] IamBradylama: We used to walk fifteen miles in the rain and the snow
[23:42] IamBradylama: just to play Night of the Tentacle
[23:45] IamBradylama: Also, allow me to go further into depth on the super mutants
[23:46] IamBradylama: From an artistic perspective they're absolute shit
[23:46] IamBradylama: The Muties in Fallout and Fallout 2 were deformed, sure
[23:47] IamBradylama: But they had noticeable human traits
[23:47] IamBradylama: They weren't just humanoids with huge muscles.
[23:47] IamBradylama: You could see Muties like Harry and Marcus as people.
[23:47] IamBradylama: These mutants are just monstrous.
[23:48] IamBradylama: They remind me more of the Locusts in Gears of War than something that used to be a person.
[23:48] acerbanditgff: yeah i got the impression that they were exagerating in these pictures
[23:49] acerbanditgff: but they didn't look like oblivion ass so I was kind of happy
[23:49] IamBradylama: It's still not enough.

After reading the article it just gets worse. The new water chip quest comes in the form of Liam dissappearing and you have to go find him. Super Mutants are around "every corner" and cars apparently have enough free energy to create miniature nuclear explosions. Not only is it stupid, it's a canon issue, since the Highwayman was a one-of-a-kind fusion cell-powered auto.

The best thing I can say about it, is that it looks better than Oblivion.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I think you forgot to post actual infomation about the game. Here's a copy-paste from a NeoGAF thread:

Quote:

- Game runs on an evolved version of the Oblivion engine. Third person view has been reworked since the verdict was that the Oblivion version sucked balls.

- Game starts with your birth and your mother's death in a vault hospital. This is essentially the character customization part of the game. Your father hands you up to have your DNA analyzed and you get to pick out all your character traits. Your dad takes off his mask to reveal similar traits to the ones you picked.

- You grow up in the vault and as you grow you get your first book titled "You're Special" which allows you to choose you baseline stats for each of your 7 primary aptitudes. You'll also get your first weapons and wrist computer (menu) as you get older you'll take tests to determine the initial layout of your skills and traits.

- Every aspect of character creation is based on S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system. Of your 14 skills you can tag 3 to grow at a faster rate than the rest as you level up.

- Battle system is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). The article states. "While you'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real time using first person shooting, V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select a target at their leisure". Battle system still uses action points, but once you've used them up you'll still be able to fight targets in real time while they charge back up.

- Game is still violent and gory. One of the featured screens is of a guy's head exploding in super gory detail. Apparently all gory deaths in the game will be in slow motion.

- More than one way to play the game. Go balls out and kill people, or sneak past situations, or perhaps talk your way out of situations.

- Enemies can target you just like you can target them, so you can get injured in very specific points on you body. This is in addition to an all new health/radiation system. This new system has you measuring how radiated certain things (like water) are and how they affect you when you consume them.

- Karma system returns

- XP based system, most XP comes from quests

- Level cap is 20

- 9 - 12 possible endings based on your actions in the game

- No level scaling like oblivion, you walk into a high level area, you die horribly.

- There are NPC's you can hire, but this is not a party based game.

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The character creation sounds interesting, although it also sounds painfully non-skippable. I HATE long, non-skippable tutorials. I guess I can deal with that, though.

I hope there's not too much focus on gathering food and water like it sounds. Yes, it's in genre, but for a game like this it'll just serve as an annoying distraction, along with weapon deterioration. Really, wilderness survival was just an afterthought in the first two Fallout games. Sounds like they're just using it as an alternative to stimpacks, though. Free healing, at the price of sucking up radiation. Might make an interesting spin on things.

VATS system sounds silly. People are just going to play it as an FPS anyway. It'll encourage people to neglect their arms skills and fight in real time constantly, shooting people manually instead of bothering with hit chances in the first place. The alternative is to enforce arbitrary misses (crosshairs are on his chest, but the game makes you miss at point blank anyway), which would also be stupid.

It's one of those things that's not going to work at all, because it clearly wasn't a decision borne of devoted gameplay design. It's there solely to appease the No Mutants Allowed crowd whether it works or not, and nothing good ever comes of doing that. This is where I start to have serious misgivings.

Heh, I like Bethseda being evasive about whether or not child NPCs will be killable. They're probably still negotiating with the ESRB about whether letting the player do that will bump the game up to an AO rating.

I just don't know what to think about the nuclear catapult. On one hand, it sure sounds wicked fun. On the other hand: what is this, Unreal Tournament? I was pretty sure those big bulky plasma rifles defined the upper limits of how much you could strain credibility.

It looks okay, but I can't say I'm filled with confidence in Bethseda after reading this. I think they'd have been better off making a more generic post-apoc game, rather than actually calling it Fallout.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

So.

Since this will use the Oblivion engine (and apparently made on console conditions eek), does that also mean all the characters will have those hideous, bloated, round faces that was the "oblivion look"? Bloom is certainly in place.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Monkey King

Heh, I like Bethseda being evasive about whether or not child NPCs will be killable. They're probably still negotiating with the ESRB about whether letting the player do that will bump the game up to an AO rating.

Bioshock was just given an M, and shooting evil little children is a fairly integral part of the game. Keep your hopes up.

I was speaking idiomatically.

The premise of Bioshock's children might have given it the go ahead. I think the idea of just killing random children might not fly, but your point is still quite strong in lieu of this.

Fallout 2 wasn't exactly this bastion of brilliance. At least to me, though I wouldn't exactly relegate it to "It's my opinion" status either. So, while I know that Elder Scrolls is like That Game That's Text Filtered/Madden/GTA/Something Negative Not Necessarily Because It's a Franchise Game if that's your fuckingthing*GASP FOR AIR NOW*... I could think of far worse things. Like, no Fallout 3 (in which I wait for anyone and everyone to pop in with a "THAT'S BETTER") or EA Games Presents "Fallout 3" or some other copout scenario.

Things look decent at this point, I can still play through Fallout 1 and obviously my take on game and or the universe isn't so seemingly rigid as some around here.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

I could think of far worse things. Like, no Fallout 3

Man, shut up! I would rather have no Fallout 3 than this pile of shit! Did you see the fucking vault suits? They're not tight enough! They're baggy as fuck! What, is the vault dweller some fucking wigger now? That is not the canon! THE DEVELOPERS have a goddamn OBLIGATION to give me a proper sequel to Fallout (don't get me started on Fallout 2, that shit is not canon, they had some Monty Python shit in that shit), I am a serious fucking gamer and have a right to that. Bethesda has no right to do this shit that they are doing. Man, I'm not even going into what I think about PipBoy having digital interface, or I'd have a fucking brain aneurysm right fucking here and now. Shit, son. Bethesda is fucking us so hard, and you're okay with that? Get out. Yes, goddamn, no Fallout 3 would be infinitely better than this... travesty.

FELIPE NO

Have a props, bubs.

"Everything is fine. Nothing is broken."

How ya doing, buddy?

The battle system sounds extremely retarded. There's no way in hell this is going to work out as intended.

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Quote:

VATS system sounds silly. People are just going to play it as an FPS anyway. It'll encourage people to neglect their arms skills and fight in real time constantly, shooting people manually instead of bothering with hit chances in the first place. The alternative is to enforce arbitrary misses (crosshairs are on his chest, but the game makes you miss at point blank anyway), which would also be stupid.

I think it's possible to enforce "arbitrary misses" without being ridiculous. For example, you can make it so that people can hit the head if they aim well, but it's far less likely to actually do a critical if they don't call the shot. And perhaps you can make it so that the crosshairs shrink or you suffer less recoil as your skill rises. It can also be like Counter-Strike, where you don't actually see recoil but the bullet paths are affected by various factors.

This ends up forgiving people for trying to play it as an FPS early on (Where they'll mostly be using pistols) but will penalize them when they get to better guns that will either suffer from recoil and "shakiness" (Rifles, SMGs) or firing rate (Shotguns). And did they say anything about whether it locks on? Because if there is lock on and it's on by default, it'd be far easier to enforce weapon effectiveness based on skills.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Aardark

Man, shut up! I would rather have no Fallout 3 than this pile of shit! Did you see the fucking vault suits? They're not tight enough! They're baggy as fuck! What, is the vault dweller some fucking wigger now? That is not the canon! THE DEVELOPERS have a goddamn OBLIGATION to give me a proper sequel to Fallout (don't get me started on Fallout 2, that shit is not canon, they had some Monty Python shit in that shit), I am a serious fucking gamer and have a right to that. Bethesda has no right to do this shit that they are doing. Man, I'm not even going into what I think about PipBoy having digital interface, or I'd have a fucking brain aneurysm right fucking here and now. Shit, son. Bethesda is fucking us so hard, and you're okay with that? Get out. Yes, goddamn, no Fallout 3 would be infinitely better than this... travesty.

Yes, Aardy, no Fallout 3 is better than something that turns the themes of the original on its head. The skin-tight vault suits were a mainstay of the EC comics that Fallout's art was inspired by. A departure from that just makes the new game seem much more generic.

This could've been titled Apoc Romp and chances are the NMA crowd would've been excited about it.

Quote:

I think it's possible to enforce "arbitrary misses" without being ridiculous.

They could effectively do it the same way as Deus Ex, but the whole VATS thing sort of implies a dual system for ballistics.

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VICTIM COMPLEX.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Yes, Aardy, no Fallout 3 is better than something that turns the themes of the original on its head. The skin-tight vault suits were a mainstay of the EC comics that Fallout's art was inspired by. A departure from that just makes the new game seem much more generic.

This could've been titled Apoc Romp and chances are the NMA crowd would've been excited about it.

It's true that you get disappointed in some ways if it bears the Fallout name. But without it, we wouldn't get things like the Pipboy or SPECIAL or whatever, because then the developers would say, "Well, let's not plagiarize Fallout, let's do something completely different!" when it's Fallout that the fans want. Yeah, both the fans and those coming into the series with this new one are going to be a little disappointed ("Why can't I fight this Super Mutant at level one, this is gay!"), but you have to realize you're going to have to give some things up as a series progresses and developers find they have to appeal to a wider audience.

Yeah, I don't completely like it either, but for every little thing we nitpick about being out of place, I'm sure Bethesda is going to try hard to remind us that we are indeed playing Fallout (In the same way that someone making a video game based on something they like will try to reference their favorite bits a lot) if they really are fans of it.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Quote:

"Well, let's not plagiarize Fallout, let's do something completely different!"

Since when is plagiarization positive? =/

Vault Boy and SPECIAL are both iconic, but that doesn't mean that they should be whored out like a soft drink just because. Being Fallout didn't make Brotherhood of Steel any more of a success.

Quote:

Yeah, I don't completely like it either, but for every little thing we nitpick about being out of place, I'm sure Bethesda is going to try hard to remind us that we are indeed playing Fallout (In the same way that someone making a video game based on something they like will try to reference their favorite bits a lot) if they really are fans of it.

I'd really love to be proven wrong, but we already know they've turned the series to a completely different genre. Considering Bethesda's awful track record, I see little reason to have faith.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

But.

But.

RADIANT AI~

blol. We'll see how this goes. Wish me luck in constructing my level 20 half-orc Porn Star.

FELIPE NO

I like how they said they fixed it for guns but didn't actually say that they've fixed it. Any questions will be ignored, though, since Ashley and Gstaff both indicate that all information is going to come through magazine exclusives and press releases.

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Originally Posted by Bradylama

I'd really love to be proven wrong, but we already know they've turned the series to a completely different genre. Considering Bethesda's awful track record, I see little reason to have faith.

What fuckhead decided to put the Final Fantasy name infront of this game called Tactics. Those jackasses totally ruined the series and bastardized everything we know and love about these games. There's no way this game can be any good since it's not the same exact thing I've played before.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

What fuckhead decided to give Final Fantasy to Capcom. Those jackasses are going to totally ruin the series and bastardize everything we know and love about those games. There's no way this game can be any good since it'll just be another 2D platformer/action game that I've seen a million times.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Does anyone have copies of the scans? I'm a big fan of the series and I'm interested to see it.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by The_Griffin

What fuckhead decided to give Final Fantasy to Capcom. Those jackasses are going to totally ruin the series and bastardize everything we know and love about those games. There's no way this game can be any good since it'll just be another 2D platformer/action game that I've seen a million times.

Wait what are you referencing here?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Don't fee-- too late.

Aesthetically, I'm inclined to agree with Brady. It'd be stupid to deny facts, yet what bothers me is hating the game before playing it. Especially since meme has a point about how it's "not the same." Though to be less ridiculous, Fallout Tactics was still faithful to the visual design of... well, Fallout. I'm not saying that people's pre-analysis of the game is wrong or that Bethesda has a perfect track record but christ, I would like to play the game first. Guess there is something to say about being skeptical and pleasantly surprised, though.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

What fuckhead decided to put the Final Fantasy name infront of this game called Tactics. Those jackasses totally ruined the series and bastardized everything we know and love about these games. There's no way this game can be any good since it's not the same exact thing I've played before.

I like how FFT wasn't actually marketed as a Final Fantasy sequel. It's good to see you put in some effort tho.

Quote:

Though to be less ridiculous, Fallout Tactics was still faithful to the visual design of... well, Fallout.

Tactics was post-apocalypticky like Fallout, but the problem was that the art direction was the post-apocalyptic near future from the contemporary perspective. With M-16s, Humvees, and all that other junk and crap.

Also the Super Mutants were terrible.

Quote:

Guess there is something to say about being skeptical and pleasantly surprised, though.

The great thing about being a pessimist is that you can never be disappointed.

Unless you're proven right.

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Originally Posted by Bradylama

I like how FFT wasn't actually marketed as a Final Fantasy sequel. It's good to see you put in some effort tho.

Most people don't count it as a "traditional" Final Fantasy, though. At least it was common not to way back when.

Quote:

Tactics was post-apocalypticky like Fallout, but the problem was that the art direction was the post-apocalyptic near future from the contemporary perspective. With M-16s, Humvees, and all that other junk and crap.

Also the Super Mutants were terrible.

I imagine that it didn't garner quite as much criticism as Bethesda current thing, though.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

I like how FFT wasn't actually marketed as a Final Fantasy sequel. It's good to see you put in some effort tho.
Most people don't count it as a "traditional" Final Fantasy, though. At least it was common not to way back when.

Well, it isn't. Neither is Tactics traditional Fallout.

It was pretty easy to get over since it wasn't an actual Fallout sequel, and I still think it's kinda fun. (don't tell NMA)

Quote:

I imagine that it didn't garner quite as much criticism as Bethesda current thing, though.

Back then Roshambo was an administrator. Rosh was to the Tactics developers as The Incredible Hulk is to a generic cityscape. He's even referenced in the game as a bitter old man, but apparently also had something to do with reversing a bad design decision.

I'd like to say people saw this coming from a mile away, but the NMA thread had 400+ comments. Their general IQ took a nose dive a little over a year ago.


Also, the scans were posted in this Something Awful thread. Get 'em while they last.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

This could've been titled Apoc Romp and chances are the NMA crowd would've been excited about it.

This is a pretty good point right here. This game they're presenting, if it were being sold as an unrelated post-apocalyptic game, people could accept it as being Fallout 3 in spirit and be done with it. Actually making it a sequel, with the name and everything, puts a bit more of a burden on them to be true to the originals. You don't just take someone else's established series and then go way into left field with it.*

It's a bit early to completely condemn the game, of course. The nuclear catapult, nuclear exploding cars, and the whole VATS thing aren't filling me with confidence, but there'll be more to the game than just what was shown in an alpha-build press teaser and trying to win over the NMA crowd is an exercise in futility anyway. I'll wait for more information before passing judgement - I just won't be holding my breath.

*No I'm not saying it's that bad, just using it as an obvious example.

How ya doing, buddy?