The annual Seal Hunt

Last night I watched Larry King Live about the annual seal hunt debate between the McCartneys and Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams. Me being a Newfoundlander and who’s family has been in the hunt for many generations… the McCartneys really insulted our province and surprised me on how uneducated they where on the topic, and they really seemed like intelligent people!

What first pissed me off is that society would rather listen to uneducated stars then a Newfoundland native who knows the facts! Not only that, but the McCartneys also justified the stereotype that stars are rude, because they always interrupted Danny whenever he was explaining all the facts (because they where denying the truth) and they where allowed to do it! However when the McCartneys said something wrong and Danny tried to correct them, Danny was told to back off.

The McCartneys need to shape up and stop denying that we hunt the seals with guns! Not clubs like it was done in the past! Seals are not endangered for there are more than 5 million swimming around! We use all parts of the seal, not just skin, and for the love of god… stop having your pictures taken with baby seals! We don’t even touch those and it was made illegal since 1987! If you are trying to make a statement, don’t sit around seals that aren’t even targets!

The seal hunt is a big income to families that live along the coast, I nearly screamed at the TV when the McCartneys said not a lot of money is earned by seal hunting…. Sure… 20 to 25,000 is not a lot of money to a millionaire, but it is to us!

The McCartneys are making assumptions on popular misinformation and refused to look at the facts and from a hunter’s perspective. It is insulting when someone who comes to Newfoundland for the first time and pass judgment on something they know nothing about!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I agree in that sense. My cousin became a vegetarian because of the way meat way meat is processed and how harmful to the environment it is, however there are organic meats that are grain-fed.

I new these stars where being used as soon as they came to the airport. They don't believe it, but then again, they don't believe in the facts either..

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

The cute little baby seals that Paul and Heather were posing with (the white coats) will be killed in three weeks time. They won't have white coats anymore, but they weill be the same baby seals we saw on tv last night.

True, however they are not the cute cuddle little white-coats when they are killed, and Paul and Heather are using the message that they will be killed as white coats. That is the tactic that they are using, cuddling up next to fluffy-big-eyed baby seals, and people will say: 'Awwww.... how can they kill those little things...' when in fact they are grown up and not as cute and cuddly when they are killed.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

They will be shot in the head, clubbed in the head, or ice-picked in the head. "90% killed by bullet" is not the same as "100% killed by bullet." What happens to the other 10%? I'm not sure. If we're talking 10% of a 200,000 seal quota, then that's 2000 animals killed in an uncpecified way, possibly by clubbing.

I am pretty sure that other game are not killed by shooting either, the most attention are brought to seals becasue the are cute when they are babies and used to be killed in the past for their fur. They are no longer killed and the baby seal fur industry is just about dead.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

I'd like to caution you, Neko, not to immediately take up arms in support of the 'hunters.' Honestly, the seal hunt isn't much of a hunt at all. It's not very hard to kill slow-moving juvenile seals on an ice floe. This is not hunting, but a massacre. It may be a necessary massacre, but it is not a hunt. Second, Newfoundland is changing. It is better for you to embrace this now, than to hold on to things that simply aren't there anymore.

What the McCartneys say about making a tourism industry makes sense, but it wont cull the over-populated species. I support the hunters that are hunting the seals the correct and humane way, I totally disagree with the clubbing. I would not call it a massacre because the seals we kill are used for food, fur, and their oil, the same as we hunt moose for their meat, but wait! No one is protesting the moose hunt because they are not adorable. Newfoundland sells a lot of seal-oil capsules and are often given to open heart surgery patients, my grand-father takes them.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

Second, Newfoundland is changing. It is better for you to embrace this now, than to hold on to things that simply aren't there anymore.

Yes Newfoundland is changing, but the need to control the population and make money has not. The money made from the hunt is quite a lot, enough to feed your family for quite a while.

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Originally Posted by Phoque le PQ

Just wondering: are those people demonstrating to protect animals or jsut want to show how cute baby seals are?

What about pigs and cows in slaughter houses?

That is exactly what Danny William was accusing them of on Larry King Live, but the McCartneys down-right denied it and kept interrupting him saying 'you are going off topic' when in fact he wasn't.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Jerrica

And no, Neko, they will not be killing white coats, and neither Paul nor Heather claimed they would be. It is illegal to kill white coats. It is not illegal to kill them in three weeks time, when they are still babies, but no longer white.

When the white coats become greys, it means that their fur is ready diving, so these young seals still have a fighting chance by swimming away.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

Neko, show me someone out in the woods clubbing a moose to death, and maybe then that arguement will have merit.

Sure. On CBC and NTV news some years back, a man dragged a moose to death with his truck, also a lot of moose are killed on the highway from transport trucks (I know that they where not hunting, but still, not all moose die in the collision and often bleed to death.)

Originally Posted by Jerrica

What I don't like is the Newfoundland attitude of "How dare these goddamn celebrities tell us what to do?" As a culture, Newfoundlanders have a tendancy to be a tad defensive and, dare I say, a little STUCK IN THEIR WAYS. Have an open mind, listen to what others have to say, and don't automatically assume that the way we've always done it is the way it should always be done.

It is just as Amanda said, alot of people are tiried of being demeaned, stepped on, and controlled by mainlanders and outsiders, especially when they make quick judgement on issues they know nothing about. Notice how some houses have the old Newfoundland flag flying on their patios and flag poles. Some people think things where better before we joined Canada, others do not.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

If you're a Newfie, you damn well better LOVE seal slaughter, or you're in a hell of a lot of trouble. Danny Williams was, in some respects, mis-representing the people of the province by claiming that he was speaking for everyone.

Not true, not all sealers hunt because they love it, they do it to feed their families. I am sure they would love to stop, but they can't afford to because where else are they going to get their money?

Originally Posted by Jerrica

The cod are gone, FPI might as well give in to the final death throes, and half the population of the province has moved to Alberta. Take away sealing, and this place will errupt. I wish, I really, really do, that Newfoundland could get away from its past. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it was great while it lasted, but now it's over. Move on. Why is it so hard for this province to do? Neko? Amanda? Explain please, because I don't get it.

Why is it so hard? That is easy! Fishing and hunting skills is much of what the older generation know how to do, they know nothing on business, advanced technology, nor do they have the time and money to do so now. Since I was six years old, I was taught to mend nets, gut fish, drive a boat, and set traps... things that my parents figured that I would need to know for my future, however when the cod stocks dried up, I was still young enough to have a option, so my father sold his fishermen's license...his right to fish... in order to have the money to send my brother and I to school, so that we can learn skills that they don't have the opportunity to have.

I think a lot of these traditional hunts will decrease dramatically because once the older generation dies of, there will only be us left, and we will most likely come up with a new industry for the province, something different from fishing and hunting... what it will be, who knows, but I do know that for the current generation of former fisher people, hunting and fishing is all they have.

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Originally Posted by Jerrica

Somone dragged a moose to death, eh? And I bet everyone interviewed for that NTV segment said pretty much the same thing. "Well, you know, it's not pretty, and it's not nice, but it IS necessary.

You bet wrong then. Actually the guy was charged, the same as any hunter will be caught clubbing.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

I can't remember the last time I heard of someone being killed in a seal-automobile collision.

That happened too... I don't think anyone was killed though, but a few years back there was a accident on the TCH because someone tried to avoid a large lump on the road, apparently it was a seal who actually swam into a fresh water to look for food, and it got lost.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

I'm glad you think analysing NLs economic problems is so simple. What you fail to take into account is the goverment assistance offered to fisherman and plant workers after the fall of the cod stocks. "Here's some money, Skipper Joe; go learn a trade.

Well I am not glad, it hurts me to see things playing out this way, but in reality not many fishermen are able to afford to learn a new trade or get a high-paying job, because a lot of the money that the government gave out where used by the fisher people to send their own kids to school, and of course things they need to keep paying off like their home, car payments, insurances, etc. I agree that the money where used by some to get a trade... it could have been 50/50, who knows... what I do know is that there is a population of people like I am describing, who used the government money to give their kids a chance that they did not have and need to use the skills that they currently have are most likely the ones who are in the seal hunt.

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Originally Posted by Jerrica

Yes, I imagine the man who DRAGGED AN ANIMAL BEHIND HIS CAR UNTIL IT DIED was probably charged. Did you miss the huge amounts of sarcasm in my initial comments? Did you miss this?

Looks like you missed my sarcasm in my comments too. Gotcha

Originally Posted by Jerrica

"I'm willing to bet good money this was not the case. I'm willing to bet, actually, that the entire province was sickened by it, as were the SPCA, Humane Society, etc. Why? Because it's a sickening thing to do. We are at the top of the food chain, yes. That gives us dominance, but it also gives us responsibility."

Well Duh, Anyone with sense would agree to that, just as I disagree with clubbing. I was making a point that not all the prey that we hunt are killed humanely, what ever the species, not just seals, so should there be just as much attention drawn to the other species that we hunt besides just seals?

Originally Posted by Jerrica

Either you aren't reading what I'm actually saying, or your father should have used his fishing license money for his own education, as yours was clearly a lost cause. Clubbing happens in the seal hunt.

I think you are missing my point here. I KNOW that clubbing happens in seal hunts, not nearly as many in the past, but cruel deaths happen to other animals too, not just seals, but no one brings that much attention to those, just the cute seals.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

One seal crawling into a road in St. Mary's isn't the same thing as the dozens of annual moose-automobile collisions that happen in Newfoundland every year. One seal accident in 60 years does not equal thousands of moose accidents.

I was simply proving that it CAN happen.

Originally Posted by Jerrica

"The vast majority of sealers are off-season fisherman. You know how much a crab fisherman can make in the span of three weeks? $50,000 even in a bad season. Most fisherman in Newfoundland fish several species a year. If one stint of three weeks provides assets equivalent to a yearly middle-class income, explain how a seal quota is necessary?"

May as well comment so that you can be happy. The numbers of crab are dropping, and O'l Danny cut the quota, and so the protest of crab fishermen was born. Besides, if the crab fishery continues at it's current rate, the stock will slowly dry up like we did with the cod, the reason what the recover will be so difficult will be to the foreign over-fishing off the grand banks. The quota of about 319,500 seals is reasonable, with five-million of them out there, they will have no problems recovering until the next season.

I still think what the McCartneys say about making a tourism industry makes sense, but we can't just have people out on the ice flows, it's dangerous and the seals can be to, they are predators. Besides, I think that all the attention that the seal hunt is getting by animal rights activists to be a little suspicious anyway... they raise a lot of money in donations by showing baby seals being clubbed in a time that it is no longer done, and they don't listen to the science that a seal still moves while it is being skinned because of the swimming reflex that is active... even after death.

With all the money these activists have made off promoting misinformation about the seal hunt, they should direct their attention to hunts that really matter. Commercial whale hunting has been banned for a while, and the whale population is in danger, yet the Japanese still hunt these animals. It's like the only animals that matter are the cute cuddle animals matter more than the endangered and majestic ones.

Anyway... just in case some of you people are board with Jerrica and I commenting on each other, here is a site that should clear things up with the actual hunt. Seal Hunt: Myths and Facts

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by PUG1911

Plus the argument that other animals are 'cruely killed' is hardly a great defence for the pro-sealing argument.

Not that I really have a stance on the issue one way or the other, just that the last argument on the matter seemed a little off.

The clubbing and cruel deaths is the argument that the McCartneys are using, I am saying that other animals that we hunt can also die cruel deaths, since this is the case, shouldn't the McCartneys be making a stance against those too? Not just the over-populated species that happen to be cute?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

The Canadian seal cull is barbaric. I'm sorry but nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. I did a presentation last summer on Canadian laws (lack thereof more appropriatly) and animal rights. I did my research. I showed recent video footage of seals being clubbed, inlcuding the white coated seals, then left to die on the ice. It's digusting. My presentation also inlcuding the trapping of animals, animals used in bloodsports, animals raised for consumption, animals used in laboratory testing and animals (cats & dogs) raised to be sold - can't seem to remember the term this is given. There's no such thing as any Canadian law to protect these animals from this obvious torture. And the clubbing of white coated seals is only a regulation not a law. I don't recall anyone facing sanctions for killing baby seals. And lets cut the bullshit. Baby seals are killed in the cull...

Clearly you did not read the artical I posted.

The Seal Hunt: Myths and Facts

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by loyalist

Site from a state with responsible government and high amounts of accountability, or an unprofessional-looking site without any outside sources. To be honest, that's just offensive towards Canada.

By the way,the 9/11 commission was not a product of Bush's amdinistartion, it is a bipartisan matter.

Looks like you beat me to it
I looked at the link that JackyBoy posted, not only does the site look like it was made by a web-design student, but if you read the disclaimer at the bottom, you can see that the false facts where put together by a group of activists that cannot see the truth any better than the McCartneys .

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As always Amanda, you are my hero!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.